Were a Centrist 3rd party to form, would you support it?

[Pogo]

then the system needs to be changed because those 2 parties have failed the country and have done nothing but put a nice big chasm in between us....of course they havent failed the farther left and right,this is what they want...division....

Readily agreed. People keep squabbling that my red or blue puppet can beat up your blue or red puppet, none of them ever looking up to see who's pulling both puppet's strings.

And for those pulling the strings, that's exactly what they want -- squabbling. That keeps your eyes off what they're doing. Not unlike a pickpocket.

Two good posts.

Corporatism is the root cause of the failure.....this has fueled dysfunction in both parties and, even worse, is fueling Statism. It has all grown too big, and the apparatus drifts further and further from our best interests. The only group speaking out about this nationally is the Tea Party, and they are dismissed as fringe kooks from all sides. A nation in decline.....

I was all set to "agree" with this until you went off the rails with the TP, which is as bad an example of the same syndrome you were building on as there is.

Whether or not you agree does not diminish the truthfulness of what I said.

If you have sage knowledge of the Tea Party different than what the Tea Party promotes as their platform (discounting the parasitic fringe groups), then speak up. Otherwise you are just dismissing for dismissal sake.

Ain't about what the tea party "promotes"... it's about who promotes the tea party.

See the upper part of your own post sister nun-so-blind.

Right, so you dismiss the philosophy due to the imperfections and parasites of those who may cling to it?

Am I to infer that in a perfect world, sans the barnacles, that you would support the Tea Party platform? That is what you just said, right?

For you it is the who, and not the what?

As I've kept stating, I think it is the what the matters......

Are you completely frickin' blind or what? You can't tell one poster from another, you can't even read your own words?

It's got ZERO to do with "those who may cling to it". Klingons are irrelevant.

It's got to do with this -- described in your own words:

"Corporatism is the root cause of the failure.....this has fueled dysfunction in both parties and, even worse, is fueling Statism. It has all grown too big, and the apparatus drifts further and further from our best interests"

Where do you think the TP comes from? A tea tree?

 

[Youch]

Are you completely frickin' blind or what? You can't tell one poster from another, you can't even read your own words?

It's got ZERO to do with "those who may cling to it". Klingons are irrelevant.

It's got to do with this -- described in your own words:

"Corporatism is the root cause of the failure.....this has fueled dysfunction in both parties and, even worse, is fueling Statism. It has all grown too big, and the apparatus drifts further and further from our best interests"

Where do you think the TP comes from? A tea tree?

I have concluded you are an emotional idiot. You care more for the parse and win (small penis) rather than read with the intent to understand and promote a thought.

You hate the corporatism behind virtually everything ( we agree), but even when explained in simple terms, refuse to support the basic philosophy behind it the Tea Party, as referenced in this thread.

Yes, I read my own words, and can support it. You disapprove of the intent of the Tea Party, of which I was speaking, because a corporatist bogyman is behind everything. If you could read to the degree you desire of others, you'd note that defeating the corporatists, and the statists, is the desired goal of the Constitutional/Tea Party movement. You cite Dick Armey as proof of your position??

Okay, so lets assume, as you've done here, that any and all attempts to curb the growth of government is equally corrupt. And your solution is, what, exactly? I mean, you disregard the Tea Party, and the conservatives in general, so what are you left with? You got ideas of your own, or only just the honed skill of parsing???

Advance and be recognized.....

 

[auditor0007]

Just curious.

This could be an interesting discussion.

People would probably be interested in defining "Centrist".

Also, you might want to count in the personality factor. Were a really well known American to decide to take an independent run for the White House, would you support that person?

A centrist is a person who lacks conviction, knowledge or a moral compass.....a fence-sitter. So, no, I would not vote for anyone who does not understand political philosophy.

There really is no such thing as a centrist, but there are many people who fall somewhere between the far left and far right. There are also many who may be more conservative on fiscal issues but liberal on social issues. Where do we put all these people? Just making a "Centrist" party does not solve anything. On top of that, having a legitimate third party would do nothing good for politics in America because our system really is set up to work best with a two party system.

then the system needs to be changed because those 2 parties have failed the country and have done nothing but put a nice big chasm in between us....of course they havent failed the farther left and right,this is what they want...division....

Readily agreed. People keep squabbling that my red or blue puppet can beat up your blue or red puppet, none of them ever looking up to see who's pulling both puppet's strings.

And for those pulling the strings, that's exactly what they want -- squabbling. That keeps your eyes off what they're doing. Not unlike a pickpocket.

The point is that we as the electorate have the ability to vote these people out if they do not truly represent us. It really is that simple.

 

[Youch]

Just curious.

This could be an interesting discussion.

People would probably be interested in defining "Centrist".

Also, you might want to count in the personality factor. Were a really well known American to decide to take an independent run for the White House, would you support that person?

A centrist is a person who lacks conviction, knowledge or a moral compass.....a fence-sitter. So, no, I would not vote for anyone who does not understand political philosophy.

There really is no such thing as a centrist, but there are many people who fall somewhere between the far left and far right. There are also many who may be more conservative on fiscal issues but liberal on social issues. Where do we put all these people? Just making a "Centrist" party does not solve anything. On top of that, having a legitimate third party would do nothing good for politics in America because our system really is set up to work best with a two party system.

then the system needs to be changed because those 2 parties have failed the country and have done nothing but put a nice big chasm in between us....of course they havent failed the farther left and right,this is what they want...division....

Readily agreed. People keep squabbling that my red or blue puppet can beat up your blue or red puppet, none of them ever looking up to see who's pulling both puppet's strings.

And for those pulling the strings, that's exactly what they want -- squabbling. That keeps your eyes off what they're doing. Not unlike a pickpocket.

The point is that we as the electorate have the ability to vote these people out if they do not truly represent us. It really is that simple.

But they don't, which as equally problematical and the concern of corporatism. I have feebly made this point numerous times here. After two elections of the disgrace of Obama, still the populace endorses more of the same. A nation in decline.....

 

[Old Rocks]

Just curious.

This could be an interesting discussion.

People would probably be interested in defining "Centrist".

Also, you might want to count in the personality factor. Were a really well known American to decide to take an independent run for the White House, would you support that person?

Nope. I am Independent.

Any third party has to jump through hoops at the state level. States don't run their game the same way.


U. S. Electoral College Who Are the Electors How Do They Vote

I'm not seeing too many on the right able to move to the middle. In fact, I see entirely too many on the alleged left that are technically right of center. So, over the past 25 years or so, the center has shifted right. It's become an elitist target with the level of propaganda that is supposed to be pushing people in that direction.

'

I look at platforms and I'm disgusted. This is what I want to see: Tell me what you want to accomplish. Tell me how you are going to do it. Tell me what your obstacles and limitations are. Tell me how you can work through those obstacles or handle those limitations. Tell me what you can't accomplish. I'm not joining a damn thing until these folks get a clue.

I am a blue collar liberal. Don't tell me about you grand ideas and ideologies. Tell me what your policies are going to be. And where those policies have been put into effect, what the benefits were, and who benefited from the policies.

I do not trust those who have all the answers and pretend their policies will fix all problem.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Only a moron would be so confident in 1992 CNN polls: At times your Naivety can be astonishing.

I wondered who would bite down hardest on the red herring. I should have predicted it was the least transparent of partisan wonks

And yet, the CNN end poll in 1992 was dead on: it predicted Clinton +6 over Bush 41. Actual result: Clinton +5.56%, which rounds to +6. Or, you can say that CNN was off by 0.4.

In 2008, CNN predicted Obama at +4 in Ohio. Actual mark: Obama +4.58. CNN was on the mark, within 0.6

Statistikhengst s ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond POLL CONVERGENCE 11

In 2012, CNN predicted Obama at +3 in Ohio. Actual mark: Obama +2.97: CNN was absolutely on the mark.

CNN Poll Obama 50 8211 Romney 47 in Ohio 8211 CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Statistikhengst s ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond End Polling Table - USA - alphabetical by pollster name

Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online for free.


Only a moron looks at polls that were DEAD ON and calls other people a moron for being confident in said polls.

CNN/ORC has put out better results than people realize. Only the most transparently partisan of stupid RWNJ hacks would not see this simple fact.

Still biting on the red herring.

Predictable is good.

No. Correcting your ignorance with real and tangible data that is now part of the historical record, a record that you cannot run away from. It's really that simple.

And you talk about "morons" and "partisanship". Funny that. Doctor, heal thyself.

I almost appreciate your blitherings as much as the fact you've derailed your own thread!

No. I took time to respond to you. Am beginning to realize, however, that you are simply not worth it. What a shame.

 

[Disir]

Just curious.

This could be an interesting discussion.

People would probably be interested in defining "Centrist".

Also, you might want to count in the personality factor. Were a really well known American to decide to take an independent run for the White House, would you support that person?

Nope. I am Independent.

Any third party has to jump through hoops at the state level. States don't run their game the same way.


U. S. Electoral College Who Are the Electors How Do They Vote

I'm not seeing too many on the right able to move to the middle. In fact, I see entirely too many on the alleged left that are technically right of center. So, over the past 25 years or so, the center has shifted right. It's become an elitist target with the level of propaganda that is supposed to be pushing people in that direction.

'

I look at platforms and I'm disgusted. This is what I want to see: Tell me what you want to accomplish. Tell me how you are going to do it. Tell me what your obstacles and limitations are. Tell me how you can work through those obstacles or handle those limitations. Tell me what you can't accomplish. I'm not joining a damn thing until these folks get a clue.

I am a blue collar liberal. Don't tell me about you grand ideas and ideologies. Tell me what your policies are going to be. And where those policies have been put into effect, what the benefits were, and who benefited from the policies.

I do not trust those who have all the answers and pretend their policies will fix all problem.

Yep. AND where those policies failed.

One of the things that ticks me off, at the state and local levels, is that these parties move forward promoting policies without even thinking through or comparisons to other states and areas that have utilized those policies that have failed. To an extent it's because much of the media focuses on national issues (providing that they don't interfere with their own money) and in part due to the people who desire theater rather than how a policy works.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The point is that we as the electorate have the ability to vote these people out if they do not truly represent us. It really is that simple.

The point seems to be that the people won't do this. For a variety of reasons such as they don't bother to inform themselves, they listen to the easy way, which is generally what the media says and how they portray it as if it's a TV singing contest or beauty pageant or something.

The main two parties have advertising down to a tee, to the point where they control enough people who will not be thinking for themselves any time soon, that they don't need to care.

 

[Samson]

Only a moron would be so confident in 1992 CNN polls: At times your Naivety can be astonishing.

I wondered who would bite down hardest on the red herring. I should have predicted it was the least transparent of partisan wonks

And yet, the CNN end poll in 1992 was dead on: it predicted Clinton +6 over Bush 41. Actual result: Clinton +5.56%, which rounds to +6. Or, you can say that CNN was off by 0.4.

In 2008, CNN predicted Obama at +4 in Ohio. Actual mark: Obama +4.58. CNN was on the mark, within 0.6

Statistikhengst s ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond POLL CONVERGENCE 11

In 2012, CNN predicted Obama at +3 in Ohio. Actual mark: Obama +2.97: CNN was absolutely on the mark.

CNN Poll Obama 50 8211 Romney 47 in Ohio 8211 CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Statistikhengst s ELECTORAL POLITICS - 2013 and beyond End Polling Table - USA - alphabetical by pollster name

Google Sheets - create and edit spreadsheets online for free.


Only a moron looks at polls that were DEAD ON and calls other people a moron for being confident in said polls.

CNN/ORC has put out better results than people realize. Only the most transparently partisan of stupid RWNJ hacks would not see this simple fact.

Still biting on the red herring.

Predictable is good.

No. Correcting your ignorance with real and tangible data that is now part of the historical record, a record that you cannot run away from. It's really that simple.

And you talk about "morons" and "partisanship". Funny that. Doctor, heal thyself.

I almost appreciate your blitherings as much as the fact you've derailed your own thread!

No. I took time to respond to you. Am beginning to realize, however, that you are simply not worth it. What a shame.

Poor baby.



Your slavish devotion to posting Partisan Blitherings disguised as Poll Analysis derailed your own thread.

Crying over it only makes you appear pitiful.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

 

[Mac1958]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

See?

.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

See?

.

See what? That I'm intruding on your pomposity with cold hard facts.

Shit, guy, I was a Republican for 28 years. Even I can see how crazy they've gotten.

How about instead of focusing on "labels', why not focus on policies?

Yes, Obama adopted the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney's health care plan. How "Liberal"!

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

See?

.

See what? That I'm intruding on your pomposity with cold hard facts.

Shit, guy, I was a Republican for 28 years. Even I can see how crazy they've gotten.

How about instead of focusing on "labels', why not focus on policies?

Yes, Obama adopted the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney's health care plan. How "Liberal"!

i was a Democrat for quite a while Joe,70's-80's till mid 90's.....if they are as center as you claim i would never have left.....but when i look around i see Dems like Dean,Hazel,Jones,Guno,Lakota,Franco,Luddy and many more.....their kind are the reason i left....tell me they are "Center"?.....i agree with you on the Republicans....the farther right do the talking for them....and it has not made them very likable....

 

[Mac1958]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

See?

.

See what? That I'm intruding on your pomposity with cold hard facts.

Shit, guy, I was a Republican for 28 years. Even I can see how crazy they've gotten.

How about instead of focusing on "labels', why not focus on policies?

Yes, Obama adopted the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney's health care plan. How "Liberal"!

i was a Democrat for quite a while Joe,70's-80's till mid 90's.....if they are as center as you claim i would never have left.....but when i look around i see Dems like Dean,Hazel,Jones,Guno,Lakota,Franco,Luddy and many more.....their kind are the reason i left....tell me they are "Center"?....

They don't see it.

.

 

[Harry Dresden]

[
Many Democrats feel that theirs is the centrist party, I doubt that this is a joke. That's why Republicans need to be wary of polls that say that few people are liberals, because liberals see themselves like this. So they would identify themselves to a poster as moderate, not liberal.

.

Um, the Democrats ARE a centrist party. they are certainly closer to the middle than they were under FDR, JFK or LBJ.

The GOP is the party that has gone off the fringe. Ike certainly wouldn't be welcome in it today, nor Nixon, nor Ford. Even Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO if we were talking about the "Real" Ronald Reagan (you know, the one who gave Amnesty to 3 million illegals) and not the legend Hate Radio has created.

See?

.

See what? That I'm intruding on your pomposity with cold hard facts.

Shit, guy, I was a Republican for 28 years. Even I can see how crazy they've gotten.

How about instead of focusing on "labels', why not focus on policies?

Yes, Obama adopted the Heritage Foundation/Mitt Romney's health care plan. How "Liberal"!

i was a Democrat for quite a while Joe,70's-80's till mid 90's.....if they are as center as you claim i would never have left.....but when i look around i see Dems like Dean,Hazel,Jones,Guno,Lakota,Franco,Luddy and many more.....their kind are the reason i left....tell me they are "Center"?....

They don't see it.

.

i agree....Dean in a thread about where are you politically said he was "just left of center"....the posters in that thread had a good laugh for about a week....

 

[dblack]

I haven't got a clue what 'Centrist' is supposed to mean here.

 

[dcraelin]

This new system is screwed up.............quoted multiple people..........but then couldn't get back to add my commentary

We need new provisions in the constitution to guarantee openness, even at the state level, to 3rd parties......otherwise things just devolve into a race for special interest backing. Expanding representation, such as the founding generation expected, as some have advocated here, also would be an improvement.

Even without that tho a 3rd party based on issues not addressed by either major party such as anti-corruption might go far. Both major parties' leadership support "free trade" while the vast majority of the population at large support fair-trade. Both major parties turn a blind eye to local corruption such as the public funding of pro-sports stadiums, and other idiotic projects such as convention centers. I think a party which opposed boondoggles like that might do well poaching from both Republicans and Democrats.

 

[Picaro]

I haven't got a clue what 'Centrist' is supposed to mean here.

I don't either, but the issue has the Fever Swamps roiling like a gator scene from an old Tarzan movie.

 

[JoeB131]

[
i was a Democrat for quite a while Joe,70's-80's till mid 90's.....if they are as center as you claim i would never have left.....but when i look around i see Dems like Dean,Hazel,Jones,Guno,Lakota,Franco,Luddy and many more.....their kind are the reason i left....tell me they are "Center"?.....i agree with you on the Republicans....the farther right do the talking for them....and it has not made them very likable....

I think if you got any of the liberals you just listed here with an adequate amount of alcohol in them and no Conservatives to sneer at them, most of them would admit they are disappointed Obama hasn't been far left enough.

That said, I think the real problem is NEITHER party is interested in the problems of you walking your mail route or me working in my cubicle. The GOP cares just about the big business interests and the Democrats only really care about how many people they can get on government programs.

 

[Shanty]

Just curious.

This could be an interesting discussion.

People would probably be interested in defining "Centrist".

Also, you might want to count in the personality factor. Were a really well known American to decide to take an independent run for the White House, would you support that person?

A centrist is a person who lacks conviction, knowledge or a moral compass.....a fence-sitter. So, no, I would not vote for anyone who does not understand political philosophy.

There really is no such thing as a centrist, but there are many people who fall somewhere between the far left and far right. There are also many who may be more conservative on fiscal issues but liberal on social issues. Where do we put all these people? Just making a "Centrist" party does not solve anything. On top of that, having a legitimate third party would do nothing good for politics in America because our system really is set up to work best with a two party system.

then the system needs to be changed because those 2 parties have failed the country and have done nothing but put a nice big chasm in between us....of course they havent failed the farther left and right,this is what they want...division....

Readily agreed. People keep squabbling that my red or blue puppet can beat up your blue or red puppet, none of them ever looking up to see who's pulling both puppet's strings.

And for those pulling the strings, that's exactly what they want -- squabbling. That keeps your eyes off what they're doing. Not unlike a pickpocket.

The point is that we as the electorate have the ability to vote these people out if they do not truly represent us. It really is that simple.

But they don't, which as equally problematical and the concern of corporatism. I have feebly made this point numerous times here. After two elections of the disgrace of Obama, still the populace endorses more of the same. A nation in decline.....

No. The nation could have opted to elect someone else. That you disagree with it doing so doesn't mean the nation is in decline.

Frankly, from my perspective, I see a lot of work to be done to make the US better. But, I work towards those goals. And I don't gripe when guys I'm diametrically opposed to win office. I just work to unseat them, or elect the next candidate if they're a President and term limited.