We Must Stop Teaching Our School Kids to Hate America

[JimBowie1958]

Funny thing about COTUS, it's like the bible, one can spin any phrase they want into proof of something they support.

That is only true for 'living document' libtards.

The rest of us consider legal agreements to be immutable except by agreed procedure.

 

[Votto]

Reading history, I see that people have always argued about really stupid s***. That said, the founders of this country couldn't give two shits that Jefferson never publicly said "Mohammedan Pirates"

How the President refers to the enemies of the US may have no effect on them, but it may have an effect on the voters who may not vote for them

 

[Wry Catcher]

The distortion of "history" goes on right now.

How many Millennials understand that the purpose of the Iraq war was to bring down Saddam so that he would no longer be a threat in the region (with stockpiles of WMD's), and so that the people of Iraq could form an elected, legitimate government reflecting their own values?

In other words, the whole thing was motivated by completely altruistic intentions.

When is the last time you ever heard those truths expressed in a newspaper or periodical? Did you ever?

Why than did we not invade and occupy N. Korea? One reason maybe oil, another revenge or a third because war is good for business and Saddam's Army was not a match for us during Desert Storm.

 

[there4eyeM]

Reading history, I see that people have always argued about really stupid s***. That said, the founders of this country couldn't give two shits that Jefferson never publicly said "Mohammedan Pirates"

How the President refers to the enemies of the US may have no effect on them, but it may have an effect on the voters who may not vote for them

Dare we say that voters are not known to vote for enemies?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Funny thing about COTUS, it's like the bible, one can spin any phrase they want into proof of something they support.

That is only true for 'living document' libtards.

The rest of us consider legal agreements to be immutable except by agreed procedure.

"agreed procedure" suggests Marbury v. Madison was legitimate, if so, COTUS must be a living document.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Reading history, I see that people have always argued about really stupid s***. That said, the founders of this country couldn't give two shits that Jefferson never publicly said "Mohammedan Pirates"

How the President refers to the enemies of the US may have no effect on them, but it may have an effect on the voters who may not vote for them

Dare we say that voters are not known to vote for enemies?

They vote for Democrats all the time, known allies of Islamic terrorism.

 

[ogibillm]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

wow

 

[JimBowie1958]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

wow

Lets take just one for example. Thomas Jeffersons supposed fathering of all of Sally Hemming's kids. Genetic tests PROVED he could only have possibly fathered Eston, but the Marxist revisionists ignored all that science stuff and said 'Well, if he fathered Eston then he likely fathered all of them!' Which completely contradicts the known science on the subject.

And yet Marxist libtards consistently teach that Jefferson fathered all of Sally's kidos.

All to do nothing more than defame, slander and undermine this great nation.

 

[ogibillm]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

wow

Lets take just one for example. Thomas Jeffersons supposed fathering of all of Sally Hemming's kids. Genetic tests PROVED he could only have possibly fathered Eston,

false.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

wow

Lets take just one for example. Thomas Jeffersons supposed fathering of all of Sally Hemming's kids. Genetic tests PROVED he could only have possibly fathered Eston,

false.

Totally true.
Do you understand that only Estons descendants had the Jefferson male marker?

That means that NONE of the other Hemmings descendants could possibly have been fathered by a Jefferson, and on top of that, the genetic tests only demonstrated that a Jefferson make fathered Eston, so it might not have even been Thomas.

Of course you wont let genetic facts get in the way of libtard lies defaming our nations founders.

http://tjheritage.org/newscomfiles/WorksJefferson-HemingsArticle.pdf

 

[ogibillm]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

wow

Lets take just one for example. Thomas Jeffersons supposed fathering of all of Sally Hemming's kids. Genetic tests PROVED he could only have possibly fathered Eston,

false.

Totally true.
Do you understand that only Estons descendants had the Jefferson male marker?

That means that NONE of the other Hemmings descendants could possibly have been fathered by a Jefferson, and on top of that, the genetic tests only demonstrated that a Jefferson make fathered Eston, so it might not have even been Thomas.

Of course you wont let genetic facts get in the way of libtard lies defaming our nations founders.

http://tjheritage.org/newscomfiles/WorksJefferson-HemingsArticle.pdf

you are under the impression that testing was done on descendants of all of sally Hemming's children. that is incorrect.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Further information on the Jefferson fathered all Hemmings children bullshit.

Background DNA Study
The next week, Nature contained an article written by Dr. Foster with the title “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child”. The article contained the following findings. There was no match between the DNA of descendants of Jefferson and Woodson. This finding was extremely important. It meant that Thomas Jefferson (or any other Jefferson) did not father Thomas Woodson as stated in Callender’s 1802 article. There was no match between the DNA of Woodson, Hemings and Carr descendants. This meant that neither of the Carr brothers fathered Thomas Woodson or Eston Hemings. However, it is still conceivable that they could have fathered one or more of Sally’s other children. A match was found between the DNA of descendants of Field Jefferson and descendants of Eston Hemings. This only means that any one of the Jefferson men previously mentioned, could have fathered Eston Hemings, but doesn’t indicate which Jefferson.
.....
Needless to say I was extremely upset with the article and its misleading title. It implied that Thomas Jefferson was, as a matter of fact, the father of Eston Hemings. I had given Dr. Foster significant amounts of historical information that needed to be considered by everyone before any conclusion was reached. I could not believe that Dr. Foster would have allowed this article to be published with this title.
I later discovered that Dr. Foster and Nature negotiated the headline for the simple DNA findings. Dr. Foster knew the title for the article would be “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child”. These are mighty powerful words to place on the name of President Thomas Jefferson and especially with no conclusive proof to back them up. Dr. Foster had previously informed me that, “Since I (Dr. Foster) am not a professional historian I don’t have the training and skills needed to evaluate one item of historical evidence in the context of other evidence. So, I will continue to leave that to the historian and will read their opinions and conclusions with interest.” Why then, did he allow the conclusion, based on the DNA analysis, that Thomas Jefferson was the biological father of Eston Hemings? He knew for a fact that the DNA analysis alone could not conclusively prove that it was Thomas and knew of the existence of a number of other male Jeffersons that should have been considered.
None of the additional information I had provided him had been included in the article, which would have made it clear that Thomas was only one of eight or more Jeffersons who may have fathered Eston Hemings. I believed, based on my many years of research, that it was possibly Randolph or one of his sons, Isham, who fathered Eston. Additional research leaves me even more convinced that it is Randolph. My concern was that the public would see the headline “Jefferson Fathered Slave’s Last Child” and believe it to be historically and scientifically correct. I asked Dr. Foster why he allowed the article to run as it had and why no meetings had been held. He said that Nature had put a rush on it, that they had placed limitations on how long the article would be and that they were the ones who made up the title. Nature stated that Dr. Foster knew very well what the title of the article was going to be.
To make matters worse, Drs. Joseph Ellis and Eric Lander wrote an accompanying article accepting the premise that Thomas Jefferson did indeed have an affair with Sally Hemings. I couldn’t understand why Nature, a scientific journal, would be interested in publishing an article of an historical nature, particularly when they were placing limitations on how long a scientific article would be. Drs. Ellis and Lander state “Now, DNA analysis confirms that Jefferson was indeed the father of at least one of Hemings’ children.” How about the choice of such strong words as “confirms” and “indeed”? The public can easily be confused with this new DNA science and will actually believe the scientists and an award-winning historian, who had previously believed Thomas innocent of these charges. Professor Ellis had taken a 180-degree turn from his former beliefs on this issue. He previously stated, “In my judgment, the prospect of the relationship being true is remote.” He is also quoted as saying, “Not because they say he was a gentleman and gentlemen do not do that sort of thing…But based on six years studying Jefferson, I believe his deepest sensual urges were directed at buildings rather than women.” It should be noted that Professor Ellis didn’t mention Randolph and sons in his Jefferson book and told me by phone on November 14, 1998, after the article had been published, that he knew nothing of Thomas’ brother and nephews.
Remember there was NO Jefferson/Woodson (alleged first child) match, thus, no long running “love affair”. Even Professor Ellis, writing in The New Republic, December 31, 1998, said there was no evidence whatsoever that the Jefferson/Hemings liaison was a romance. He further makes reference to an article written by Professor Sean Wilentz (who had recruited Professor Ellis to sign the full page article of historians in the New York Times of October 30, 1998), in which he says that Professor Wilentz’s “Jefferson-Hemings’ romance’ strikes me as fairy-tale stuff of the sappiest sort” and he further states, “Spinning the story that way plays to the popular craving for a miniseries version of history…etc.”...
I have to wonder whether these historians really knew of Randolph and his sons or not. It has been asserted that no one offered Randolph and his sons as an alternative to Thomas until after the DNA study results were published and that they are now being offered as a desperate attempt to defend Thomas. I did in fact provide this information well in advance of the published results to Dr. Foster. The very information that Dr. Foster said would be very important if there were to be a Jefferson/Hemings match.
Randolph seemed to be a private, non-political, fun-loving farmer who must have been well known by Jefferson’s slave, Isaac, because years later he recalls that “Old Master’s brother, Mass Randall was a mighty simple man: used to come out among black people, play the fiddle and dance half the night; hadn’t much more sense than Isaac.” “Jefferson at Monticello” by James A. Bear, Jr., University Press of Va. 1967. It was probably Randolph that taught the Hemings men to play the fiddle, because Thomas was occupied in too many other pursuits for his country and at his two homes. He sometimes complained that he couldn’t get to sleep because of the fiddle playing and noise in the slave quarters. I don’t suppose there would be any reason for Randolph to visit Monticello except when Thomas would come home....
The American scientific journal, Science, came forward January 8, 1999, in an excellent article stating that, “But now the authors of the report say the evidence for that is less than conclusive.” They make it abundantly clear that Dr. Foster says that the data establishes only that Thomas Jefferson was one of several candidates for the paternity of Eston Hemings. Science said that the Jefferson data has taken on a political spin and that Mr. Reed Irvine, Accuracy in Media (AIM), claims that the news media purposefully distorted the results of Dr. Foster’s study. Also, in Annette Gordon-Reed’s new updated version of her book “Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings: An American Controversy” that includes the DNA Authors Response states on page X, “The DNA test does not prove that the descendant of Eston Hemings was a direct descendant of Thomas Jefferson.”
My study indicates to me that Thomas Jefferson was NOT the father of Eston or any other Hemings child. The DNA study along with historical information, indicates that Randolph is possibly the father of Eston and maybe the others. We do not know. Randolph, named for his maternal Randolph family, was a widower and between wives when shortly after his wife’s death, Sally became pregnant with her first child, Harriet I. It had been almost six years since her arriving at Monticello from Paris, thus, we can see that there was no “long term love affair” between Thomas and Sally. She continued having children until 1808 when Eston was born. Randolph Jefferson would marry his second wife the next year, 1809, and would have a child, John, born about 1810. Three of Sally Hemings’ children, Harriet, Beverly and Eston (the latter two not common names), were given names of the Randolph family who had earlier owned Randolph’s plantation, “Snowden”, and who had received it as his inheritance.
Randolph was invited by Thomas to come to Monticello to visit him and Randolph’s twin sister, who had arrived one day earlier. This was in August 1807, exactly nine months prior to Eston’s birth. Randolph was also present at Monticello on May 27, 1808, exactly six days after Eston’s birth on May 21, 1808. He may have come to see his son, Eston and Thomas even drafted Randolph’s will on that date.
These facts must get out before the public in order to counteract all the media coverage that Thomas Jefferson was guilty of fathering Eston Hemings, based upon the original misleading Nature article headline.

 

[JimBowie1958]

you are under the impression that testing was done on descendants of all of sally Hemming's children. that is incorrect.

That is not necessary, only a few of the Hemmings descendants of each child have to be tested.

 

[ogibillm]

so what you are doing is slectively using the uncertainty in the dna testing to discount the totality of evidence.

further you invent evidence that doesn't exist.

you are attempting to rewrite history

 

[ogibillm]

you are under the impression that testing was done on descendants of all of sally Hemming's children. that is incorrect.

That is not necessary, only a few of the Hemmings descendants of each child have to be tested.

read it again. not all of hemmings children have descendents - or an unbroken male lineage.

you seem to be under the impression that descendents from each heming child was tested.

 

[Moonglow]

The stupid never stops, the right wingers have a head harder than a 2 year old child..This has been explained over and over.....What you consider to be a need, has been met, even though the picture you drew, is not the same as the one drawn by somebody that has to practice international politics...

 

[bodecea]

not a surprise that 'conservatives' see knowledge as the enemy

Agree....plus basing this entire thread on the lie that we are teaching our school kids to hate America.

 

[bodecea]

I love America and all the freedoms that we enjoy. I love it so much that I refuse to whitewash the unsavory aspects of our history or marginalize all the good we've done. We have stumbled quite a few times along the way, but overall we are a forced of good in this world.

And most of these 'unsavory aspects' are simply fictions of the Hate America First derangement.

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

As am I.

To me, if someone is SO delusional that they think their country is perfect in every way....they are setting themselves up for a mighty fall.....and are not helping the country they allegedly love so much. They don't love America....they love their fantasy of America.......while hating a large chunk of the American people.

 

[bodecea]

What 'unsavory aspects' do you find to be mostly fiction? I am curious.

Well we could start with our supposed genocide of Amerindian tribes which is completely fictional.

We could then go to Thomas Jefferson's supposed all of Sally Hemming's children.

And visit the PC bullshit about the Civil War being about nothing other than slavery, make a horse shit pit stop at the fiction surrounding the Federal Reserve, then go to the entry into WW1.

After that we can look at the struggle against communism, all bastardized now into Marxist lies and spin about it really being just another imperial struggle between the USSR and USA. The East German frontier wall disproved that forever in my mind.

And finally we can peruse the utterly ridiculous spin on our actions in Korea, Vietnam and the War against Salafi Islamic terrorism, which has been consistently FUBARed all to hell by the Democrats at every opportunity.

Wow...."completely fictional" you say?