Was Winston Churchill a catastrophe?

[Thunderbird]

O, and something else for your edumacation:

You'll always find a few nuts devoted to Holocaust denial and Holodomor denial. This book by non-historian trade union activist Douglas Tottle is an example.

Check this out: International Commission of Inquiry Into the 1932–33 Famine in Ukraine. The Final Report

quote: Nevertheless, the International Commission of Inquiry did make a thorough study of the organizational background behind this government-inflicted genocide, that killed not less than 7,5 million direct victims according to the Commission's best estimate, in order to arrive at a conclusion as to responsibility. The organization could be followed through a paper trail that included orders, decrees and indeed legislation, and it was also possible to look at the parallel Party organization behind this statutory facade.

 

[Indofred]

Absolutely a stunning piece of crap. Nothing more than another revisionist extrapolating and professing without due consideration given to the facts and reality of the time period in which the events occurred. My hunch, correct me if I am wrong, is that you are of German descent.

I believe you made a mistake. Your post should read:

Absolutely a stunning piece of crap. Nothing more than another revisionist extrapolating and professing without due consideration given to the facts and reality of the time period in which the events occurred. My hunch, correct me if I am wrong, is that you are a moron.

Am I correct or did I misunderstand you?

 

[mememe]

In the numbers I provided, point me these "murdered millions".

If your literacy level ever improves .

I gave you OFFICIAL DATA.

And you want me to disregard it in favour of some emotive essay.

That's the reason you, Westerners, and especially Americans are so ignorant of the reality around you:

your official propaganda machine finances "historic" opuses of particular flavour needed for propaganda purposes;

the authors produce these opuses;

your official propaganda machine takes them and presents before you as "historical findings";

you swallow it and feel indignant when the reality does not conform to the matrix of your propaganda indoctrination.

---------------------------------

You want to continue to be viewed as stupid? Carry on.

 

[mememe]

Check this out: International Commission of Inquiry Into the 1932–33 Famine in Ukraine. The Final Report

.

Financed by US. Need I say more...

Please, answer my questions:

If Stalin created famine in the Ukraine, who created it in the rest of the USSR?

If Stalin created famine in the USSR, who created famine in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Germany, Romania, UK and USA?

 

[mememe]

In the numbers I provided, point me these "murdered millions".

Communists destroyed Russia.

• Decimated the Russian people.
  
  Abortion rates were extremely high.
  

• 
  
  Just to illustrate how idiotic you are to blindly believe your propaganda twaddle.
  
  1. The population of the Russian Empire in 1897 was 125 640 021 people. Estimated number of people in the Russian Empire prior to WW1 was around 170 - 180 million.
  
  Population of the USSR in 1927 (after WW1, revolution, civil war and loss of West Ukraine, West Belarus, Polish territories, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland) was 147 028 000 people.
  
  In 1937 it was 162 500 000; in 1941 -- 196 716 000.
  
  Where do you see "decimation"?
  
  2. In 1926 it was prohibited to terminate first pregnancy; and between 1936 and 1955 all abortions were prohibited.
  
  The rest is even more surreal! Especially about "destruction of Russian culture and self-respect"; and this one takes the biscuit: "By the 1980's Russian technology was a joke" -- so much of a joke that the US is going to continue paying Russia until at least 2020 to take US cargo to US space stations! And Russia still uses Soviet space technology!
  LOL!
  
  --------------------------------
  
  You do consider yourself intelligent, do you? Then how do you explain your absolute inability to reference information fed to you ???!!!!!

 

[Thunderbird]

Population of the USSR in 1927 (after WW1, revolution, civil war and loss of West Ukraine, West Belarus, Polish territories, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland) was 147 028 000 people.

Yea genius I said Russia, not the whole USSR. Russian fertilty rates plunged under Communism. In the 60s, 70s, 80s Russia had some of highest abortion rates and lowest fertility rates in the world.

2. In 1926 it was prohibited to terminate first pregnancy;

Proof? In 1920 the USSR became the first country to allow abortion in all circumstances.

And Russia still uses Soviet space technology!

Russia had some good military technology, but what good did it do them? Russia got their ass kicked in Afghanistan and then they lost the Cold War.

The rest is even more surreal! Especially about "destruction of Russian culture and self-respect";

The only great writers produced under the Soviet Union were critics of the regime.

 

[Meathead]

Population of the USSR in 1927 (after WW1, revolution, civil war and loss of West Ukraine, West Belarus, Polish territories, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland) was 147 028 000 people.

Yea genius I said Russia, not the whole USSR. Russian fertilty rates plunged under Communism. In the 60s, 70s, 80s Russia had some of highest abortion rates and lowest fertility rates in the world.

Clearly, it is a shame that they didn't have just one more. It would have any effect on abortion rates, but would have spared this thread a great deal of stupidity.

 

[mememe]

Population of the USSR in 1927 (after WW1, revolution, civil war and loss of West Ukraine, West Belarus, Polish territories, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Finland) was 147 028 000 people.

Yea genius I said Russia, not the whole USSR.

Russian fertilty rates plunged under Communism.

In the 60s, 70s, 80s Russia had some of highest abortion rates and lowest fertility rates in the world.

First of all, there were no "communism" in the Soviet Union, there was SOCIALISM. Only Westerners referred to socialist countries as "communist" because you don't understand the meaning of the words you use.

Yeah, genius, "Russia" is a short for "Russian Empire"; and the USSR was just a little bit smaller. And there is no statistics for "Russia" outside of Russian Empire or the USSR.

LOL!!!
USA fertility rates plunge under capitalism!!!!! In 1970-s US fertility rate was 1.7 while in the USSR fertility rate was 1.9; in 1989 US fertility rate was 2.0 while in the USSR fertility rate was 1.9; LOL!!!

As we can clearly see, even with high abortion rates starting 1960-s and by 1990 on decline, the fertility rates were pretty much the same for US and the USSR.
And why do you need abortions with 6% pederasts + God knows how many necrophiliacs, zoophiliacs and other non-reproductive "minorities"; add to it the rate at which you murder your already born kids in school shootings -- and you have it: Capitalism decimates USA!!!! LOL!

 

[mememe]

2. In 1926 it was prohibited to terminate first pregnancy;

Proof? In 1920 the USSR became the first country to allow abortion in all circumstances.

Use the fucking SEARCH ENGINE, you "in all circumstances" twat!

 

[mememe]

Russia had some good military technology, but what good did it do them? Russia got their ass kicked in Afghanistan and then they lost the Cold War.

.

The Soviet Union got its ass kicked in Afghanistan when it was fighting alone against Afghan mugaheds with US and UK financing, arming and training them.

And USA + UK and the rest of NATO are getting their asses kicked for over 10 years now; and that is without Russia or anyone else helping the locals!
So, shut your pie-hole about "ass kicking". In fact, the only war won by US was its war against Grenada where US military went against some 400 Cuban construction workers!

Yes, the USSR lost the Cold War. The US lost PEACE! USA managed to destroy its own world standing without anyone contributing to it!

 

[mememe]

The only great writers produced under the Soviet Union were critics of the regime.

They are the only "writers" you are allowed to read! Probably, because they were writing on US grants!

And incidentally, within the USSR and now Russia, Ukraine and Belarus those "writers" were always looked upon as talentless scribblers on US payroll.

 

[Thunderbird]

Churchill wanted the U.S. in WW I by any means necessary.

quote: Churchill's policies made the sinking very likely. The Lusitania was a passenger liner loaded with munitions of war; Churchill had given orders to the captains of merchant ships, including liners, to ram German submarines if they encountered them, and the Germans were aware of this. And, as Churchill stressed in his memoirs of World War I, embroiling neutral countries in hostilities with the enemy was a crucial part of warfare: "There are many kinds of maneuvres in war, some only of which take place on the battlefield. . . . The maneuvre which brings an ally into the field is as serviceable as that which wins a great battle."

LINK

 

[bendog]

Amazing thread. LOL

 

[HenryBHough]

Though Winston Churchill has been piled with praise by the established order, I think Churchill was a catastrophe - a barbaric war-loving incompetent.http://original.antiwar.com/buchanan/2009/09/04/churchill-spurred-the-decline-of-the-west/

Without Churchill Europe wouldn't be a budding Socialist Paradise; just an Aryan one. I think you are unsuited even to emptying Churchill's chamber pot. Our opinions are likely of equal weight.

Except mine is more reflective of outcomes.

 

[Thunderbird]

I think you are unsuited even to emptying Churchill's chamber pot.

And you are well suited for the job.

 

[Thunderbird]

This video exposes some of the awful decision-making by Churchill (and others):

 

[regent]

Churchill's goals in WWII were to save Britain, save British lives and keep the British empire intact.

 

[Thunderbird]

Churchill's goals in WWII were to save Britain, save British lives and keep the British empire intact.

Then he failed. Britain made enormous sacrifices, yet WWII crippled the British Empire. The Empire never recovered. The war mostly benefited Communist dictators.

 

[HenryBHough]

Churchill's goals in WWII were to save Britain, save British lives and keep the British empire intact.

Then he failed. Britain made enormous sacrifices, yet WWII crippled the British Empire. The Empire never recovered. The war mostly benefited Communist dictators.

And what fault could a liberal find with THAT?

 

[whitehall]

Though Winston Churchill has been piled with praise by the established order, I think Churchill was a catastrophe - a barbaric war-loving incompetent.

His "achievements":

• He helped push the UK into WW I. Without UK involvement the war would have ended quickly.
• He bears responsibility for the Gallipoli disaster.
• He instituted the hunger blockade of Germany which killed 100s of 1000s.
• He supported gas attacks on Iraqi civilians.
• His stupid decision to return the UK to the gold standard helped bring about the Great Depression.
• He supported the foolish war guarantee to Poland. Poland was not saved, only Stalin benefited.
• He is responsible for the debacle of the Norway invasion.
• His policy of terror bombing in WW II led to additional 100s of 1000s of deaths.
• Churchill's forced repatriation of refugees after WW II condemned millions to servitude and death.
• Churchill also deserves blame for the Bengal famine which killed 1-3 million.

Rethinking Churchill

Churchill Spurred the Decline of the West

How could Churchill be blamed for the UK's involvement in WW1 when he wasn't even a member of the British government? The standard of military strategy in WW2 centered around "terror bombing". Look up the freaking Atomic Bomb if you want the ultimate example of terror bombing.