Was Hiroshima Wrong?

[JBeukema]

...You'll recall that the US invaded Iraq in 2003 and cited reasons mostly unrelated to 9/11 ('weapons of mass destruction.') A big secret American plan to raid the Middle East? No, but the US has invaded other countries there since 9/11.

Last time I checked, Iraq is a single country, but to get back to your comparison, you'd have to believe 9/11 made an American invasion of Iraq less likely. That doesn't seem like a very logical conclusion.

exactly. it made it more likely. there is no way iraq would have happened without 9/11.

O'Neill: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11 - CNN

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6929604.ece

Bush Sought ‘Way’ To Invade Iraq? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

 

[elvis]

We gave up on taking the Northern half, did we not?

well, Truman did because he decided to fight a war with one hand tied around his nuts.

 

[JBeukema]

We're back to saying we invaded Iraq over 9/11?

 

[elvis]

Last time I checked, Iraq is a single country, but to get back to your comparison, you'd have to believe 9/11 made an American invasion of Iraq less likely. That doesn't seem like a very logical conclusion.

exactly. it made it more likely. there is no way iraq would have happened without 9/11.

O'Neill: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11 - CNN

US ‘drumbeats’ about Iraq invasion were heard months before 9/11 - Times Online

Bush Sought ‘Way’ To Invade Iraq? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

assuming those sources are correct, i'd like to see bush get it through congress without 9/11 still on everyone's mind.

 

[Kalam]

there is no way iraq would have happened without 9/11.

How do you know that?

 

[elvis]

We're back to saying we invaded Iraq over 9/11?

no. we're saying the invasion wouldn't have been approved if 9/11 hadnt taken place.

 

[JBeukema]

exactly. it made it more likely. there is no way iraq would have happened without 9/11.

O'Neill: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11 - CNN

US ‘drumbeats’ about Iraq invasion were heard months before 9/11 - Times Online

Bush Sought ‘Way’ To Invade Iraq? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

assuming those sources are correct, i'd like to see bush get it through congress without 9/11 still on everyone's mind.

Never let a crisis go to waste?

How many other nations has America invaded in the past? How many 9/11s have their been?

 

[JBeukema]

We're back to saying we invaded Iraq over 9/11?

no. we're saying the invasion wouldn't have been approved if 9/11 hadnt taken place.

How do you know this?

Please list every country America has ever invaded and the corresponding 9/11-scale terrorist attack that we used to get everyone to go along with it.

 

[elvis]

O'Neill: Bush planned Iraq invasion before 9/11 - CNN

US ‘drumbeats’ about Iraq invasion were heard months before 9/11 - Times Online

Bush Sought ‘Way’ To Invade Iraq? - 60 Minutes - CBS News

assuming those sources are correct, i'd like to see bush get it through congress without 9/11 still on everyone's mind.

Never let a crisis go to waste?

How many other nations has America invaded in the past? How many 9/11s have their been?

essentially......yes. never let a crisis go to waste. i suppose there could have been another gulf of tonkin....

 

[elvis]

We're back to saying we invaded Iraq over 9/11?

no. we're saying the invasion wouldn't have been approved if 9/11 hadnt taken place.

How do you know this?

Please list every country America has ever invaded and the corresponding 9/11-scale terrorist attack that we used to get everyone to go along with it.

ok, so how would we get a pretext for war with saddam. keep in mind how close the gulf war I vote was, and he had attacked Kuwait.

 

[westwall]

We gave up on taking the Northern half, did we not?

Yes we were following the directives of the UN, McArthur was all for invading China when they intervened. You're comparing apples and oranges as usual.

 

[JBeukema]

no. we're saying the invasion wouldn't have been approved if 9/11 hadnt taken place.

How do you know this?

Please list every country America has ever invaded and the corresponding 9/11-scale terrorist attack that we used to get everyone to go along with it.

Ok, so how would we get a pretext for war with saddam. keep in mind how close the gulf war I vote was, and he had attacked Kuwait.

Perhaps his talk of abandoning the dollar? We could have claimed that this would have destabilized the price of oil, creating an artificial shortage. We wouldn't need details- just create a fake shortage like was done in the past, attribute it to Saddam's antics and the resulting insecurity and unease, and tell everyone we won't be able to produce and ship enough food if he's not stopped. Then there was yellowcake, WMDs, mushroomclouds... He could have sent them over for 60 days without congres. By the time two months was up, he could do what he did anyway- talk about flip-flopping, leaving a power vacuum, needing to finish the job, and the threat of Iran guiding hostile extremists into power.

 

[California Girl]

So 9/11 was cool, then? Just a part of war?

Really? You're using these as comparable events? Seriously?

Apple

Orangutan

Compare these instead.... they're about as relevant as your examples are to each other.

Why Because we did it and we're always right and they're a bunch of evil muslims with the wrong colour skin?

No, because one was to bring an end to Japan's war against us.

The other was to provoke the United States into a war with 'Muslims'. It failed. We are not at war with Muslims, or Islam. We are, however, destroying the hiding places of a bunch of ragheads who want to kill Americans. I have no problem with that.

 

[Kalam]

ragheads

 

[manifold]

This thread makes me

I'll have to go back and rep JB.

Sure there are a number of differences one can point out between the two. But what's been cracking me up is the narrow-minded refusal of so many to acknowledge the similarities that make it a valid comparison of morality.

And people call me a moral relativist.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used
bout a week after V-J Day I was one of a small group of scientists and engineers interrogating an intelligent, well-informed Japanese Army officer in Yokohama. We asked him what, in his opinion, would have been the next major move if the war had continued. He replied: "You would probably have tried to invade our homeland with a landing operation on Kyushu about November 1. I think the attack would have been made on such and such beaches."

"Could you have repelled this landing?" we asked, and he answered: "It would have been a very desperate fight, but I do not think we could have stopped you."

"What would have happened then?" we asked.

He replied: "We would have kept on fighting until all Japanese were killed, but we would not have been defeated," by which he meant that they would not have been disgraced by surrender.

The Atlantic | December 1946 | If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used | Compton

 

[Kalam]

If the Atomic Bomb Had Not Been Used
bout a week after V-J Day I was one of a small group of scientists and engineers interrogating an intelligent, well-informed Japanese Army officer in Yokohama. We asked him what, in his opinion, would have been the next major move if the war had continued. He replied: "You would probably have tried to invade our homeland with a landing operation on Kyushu about November 1. I think the attack would have been made on such and such beaches."

Refer to the US government report I cited earlier:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/157090-was-hiroshima-wrong-7.html#post3369081

 

[rightwinger]

Hiroshima....NO

Nagasaki.....Yes

 

[JBeukema]

Really? You're using these as comparable events? Seriously?

Apple

Orangutan

Compare these instead.... they're about as relevant as your examples are to each other.

Why Because we did it and we're always right and they're a bunch of evil muslims with the wrong colour skin?

No, because one was to bring an end to Japan's war against us.

The other was to end America's aggression and meddling in the ME

The other was to provoke the United States into a war with 'Muslims'. It failed

So we were in this war before 9/11? You're arguing bin Laden's case for him now

. We are not at war with Muslims, or Islam.

Then why are we handing out bibles and putting biblical references on our weapons? Why do we support Zionism and Israel's campaign to control the holy land?

We are, however, destroying the hiding places of a bunch of ragheads

So we're back to racism again

 

[JBeukema]

Hiroshima....NO

Nagasaki.....Yes

Clarify