Was Dwight Gooden the best ever?

[del]

That second pitch he threw had some serious mustard on it!

there was a film of him beating a motorcycle doing 100mph but i couldn't find it or maybe it doesn't exist. he was the real deal that's for sure.

 

[Bfgrn]

What the hell happened? Did the drugs catch up to him?

1985 stats: 24-4, 16 CG, 8 SHO 268 SO, 1.53 ERA

Keep in mind, they raised the mound in 1972.

Gooden had a great rookie year, breaking the rookie strike out record that stood for 30 years.

The record was set by Herb Score in 1955, Score struck out 245 batters for the Cleveland Indians...

The best pitching staff no one ever talks about was that Cleveland staff in the mid '50's; Four Hall of Famers - Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Hal Newhouser. Plus all stars Mike Garcia, Ray Narleski, Don Mossi and Art Houtteman...

Herb Score had a great start, but sadly he was never the same after taking a line drive off the bat of Gil McDougald in 1957...

Tragic news...Nick Adenhart
A's shaken over death of Angels pitcher

Forgot about Bob Feller. He was the man. I wish I could have seen the old times deal.

Adenhart is such a tragedy. The kid had such a bright future but at least he got to throw one good game before he died. He died a major league pitcher and his family should be proud.

The Sox are going to Anaheim to play the Angels tonight. I don't know if I can handle watching whatever they have planned for a pre-game ceremony.

Bob Feller...they called him "Rapid Robert"... my grandfather used to say Feller threw "aspirins" ...

As a baseball, Mickey Mantle and Yankee fan, I always said "heaven" for me would be reincarnation and being transported to NYC when the Yankees, Giants and Dodgers were all there. Almost every day, you could take the subway to Yankee Stadium, the Polo Grounds or Ebbets Field and see Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, the Mick, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Willy Mays, Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, Roy Campanella and Jackie Robinson.

I remember reading an interview with Leo "the Lip" Durocher talking about Willy Mays. Willy would arrive at the Polo Grounds early; go out in the street and play stickball with kids in the neighborhood, then take treat them to an ice cream before suiting up for the game...

Back then baseball WAS sports in America... I remember my grandmother watching the Saturday Game of the Week with Dizzy Dean and Pee Wee Reese on NBC...EVERYONE was a baseball fan...

 

[Bfgrn]

If you go that route it only makes Pedro look that much more dominant by pitching to roided up beasts in the heart of the steroid era, on a lower mound, and in a league with a DH.

And he owned them.

I absolutely agree. So, if we want to be truly objective about this, who has been the best [pitcher] ever? Or batter, for that matter? I, personally, don't subscribe to the notion that HRs necessarily make them the best batter.

Sorry, I missed this post ...

Best hitter is so much harder to quantify, IMO. There's just so many to choose from.

Best hitter is easy...Babe Ruth... he hit more home runs per season than the rest of the American League COMBINED

 

[manifold]

Babe Ruth... he hit more home runs per season than the rest of the American League COMBINED

 

[Xenophon]

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

If there is no Shoeless Joe Jackson, there can be no Pete Rose.

 

[sealybobo]

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

If there is no Shoeless Joe Jackson, there can be no Pete Rose.

Please let this thread disappear. No, Dwight is not the best ever, and I'm sick of seeing the question.

 

[Paulie]

Bringing up pitchers from back in the day and comparing them to now is tough to do anymore, becuase there were no pitch counts.

The only numbers from Doc, and the others mentioned here, that are better than some of today's best are IP, CG, and SHO. Some of the K totals are higher as well, but that would also come with more pitches thrown.

Why should Doc's '85 line be considered any better than some of Maddux's lines or Randy Johnson's lines? Or Pedro's lines?

The main thing that impresses me about Doc's 85 line is his ERA. If you're throwing 50% more pitches than today's pitchers, and still coming up with a sub-2 ERA, that is pretty fantastic.

But best ever? I'm not sure.

 

[Article 15]

Gooden had a great rookie year, breaking the rookie strike out record that stood for 30 years.

The record was set by Herb Score in 1955, Score struck out 245 batters for the Cleveland Indians...

The best pitching staff no one ever talks about was that Cleveland staff in the mid '50's; Four Hall of Famers - Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Hal Newhouser. Plus all stars Mike Garcia, Ray Narleski, Don Mossi and Art Houtteman...

Herb Score had a great start, but sadly he was never the same after taking a line drive off the bat of Gil McDougald in 1957...

Tragic news...Nick Adenhart
A's shaken over death of Angels pitcher

Forgot about Bob Feller. He was the man. I wish I could have seen the old times deal.

Adenhart is such a tragedy. The kid had such a bright future but at least he got to throw one good game before he died. He died a major league pitcher and his family should be proud.

The Sox are going to Anaheim to play the Angels tonight. I don't know if I can handle watching whatever they have planned for a pre-game ceremony.

Bob Feller...they called him "Rapid Robert"... my grandfather used to say Feller threw "aspirins" ...

As a baseball, Mickey Mantle and Yankee fan, I always said "heaven" for me would be reincarnation and being transported to NYC when the Yankees, Giants and Dodgers were all there. Almost every day, you could take the subway to Yankee Stadium, the Polo Grounds or Ebbets Field and see Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, the Mick, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Willy Mays, Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, Roy Campanella and Jackie Robinson.

I remember reading an interview with Leo "the Lip" Durocher talking about Willy Mays. Willy would arrive at the Polo Grounds early; go out in the street and play stickball with kids in the neighborhood, then take treat them to an ice cream before suiting up for the game...

Back then baseball WAS sports in America... I remember my grandmother watching the Saturday Game of the Week with Dizzy Dean and Pee Wee Reese on NBC...EVERYONE was a baseball fan...

My Mom tells me stories from back in the 60's when she and her friends would take the T to Fenway and get bleacher seats for like a buck. It's just what they'd do to hang out on any random lazy day. Can't do that anymore.

 

[Bfgrn]

Forgot about Bob Feller. He was the man. I wish I could have seen the old times deal.

Adenhart is such a tragedy. The kid had such a bright future but at least he got to throw one good game before he died. He died a major league pitcher and his family should be proud.

The Sox are going to Anaheim to play the Angels tonight. I don't know if I can handle watching whatever they have planned for a pre-game ceremony.

Bob Feller...they called him "Rapid Robert"... my grandfather used to say Feller threw "aspirins" ...

As a baseball, Mickey Mantle and Yankee fan, I always said "heaven" for me would be reincarnation and being transported to NYC when the Yankees, Giants and Dodgers were all there. Almost every day, you could take the subway to Yankee Stadium, the Polo Grounds or Ebbets Field and see Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, the Mick, Yogi Berra, Whitey Ford, Willy Mays, Duke Snider, Gil Hodges, Roy Campanella and Jackie Robinson.

I remember reading an interview with Leo "the Lip" Durocher talking about Willy Mays. Willy would arrive at the Polo Grounds early; go out in the street and play stickball with kids in the neighborhood, then take treat them to an ice cream before suiting up for the game...

Back then baseball WAS sports in America... I remember my grandmother watching the Saturday Game of the Week with Dizzy Dean and Pee Wee Reese on NBC...EVERYONE was a baseball fan...

My Mom tells me stories from back in the 60's when she and her friends would take the T to Fenway and get bleacher seats for like a buck. It's just what they'd do to hang out on any random lazy day. Can't do that anymore.

Years ago, baseball was an affordable family outing, but now with crap like the new stadiums in NY, it's pricing itself out of fans...

BTW, every time I took the T, I never ended up where I was headed...LOL

 

[elvis]

Okay.... If you want to put (*) by the stats by virtue of the fact that the mound height was adjusted up/down during the tenure of the various pitchers, how about we put (*) by the stats of the homerun "kings" who became kings by virtue of steroid use?

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

If Rose bet AGAINST the Reds, the sins are equal. If he didn't, the steroiders are worse.

 

[elvis]

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

If there is no Shoeless Joe Jackson, there can be no Pete Rose.

Say it ain't so, Xeno.

 

[Article 15]

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

If Rose bet AGAINST the Reds, the sins are equal. If he didn't, the steroiders are worse.

That always irked me. Did he ever bet against his team? If not then I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

 

[elvis]

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

If Rose bet AGAINST the Reds, the sins are equal. If he didn't, the steroiders are worse.

That always irked me. Did he ever bet against his team? If not then I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

It was wrong because it was against the rules. Does it warrant a permanent ban? Certainly not from the Hall of Fame. the commissioner conveniently made the rule that anyone banned from baseball could never be in the Hall DURING the Rose investigation.

 

[Article 15]

If Rose bet AGAINST the Reds, the sins are equal. If he didn't, the steroiders are worse.

That always irked me. Did he ever bet against his team? If not then I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

It was wrong because it was against the rules. Does it warrant a permanent ban? Certainly not from the Hall of Fame. the commissioner conveniently made the rule that anyone banned from baseball could never be in the Hall DURING the Rose investigation.

Which is uber ghey.

I'd be hard pressed to come up many guys who played the game harder than Rose.

 

[elvis]

That always irked me. Did he ever bet against his team? If not then I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

It was wrong because it was against the rules. Does it warrant a permanent ban? Certainly not from the Hall of Fame. the commissioner conveniently made the rule that anyone banned from baseball could never be in the Hall DURING the Rose investigation.

Which is uber ghey.

I'd be hard pressed to come up many guys who played the game harder than Rose.

The only person I can imagine was Cobb. rose was not the BEST player. He just outworked everybody. If he did indeed bet AGAINST the Reds, and some posters here assert that he did, then I agree with the permanent ban.

 

[Article 15]

It was wrong because it was against the rules. Does it warrant a permanent ban? Certainly not from the Hall of Fame. the commissioner conveniently made the rule that anyone banned from baseball could never be in the Hall DURING the Rose investigation.

Which is uber ghey.

I'd be hard pressed to come up many guys who played the game harder than Rose.

The only person I can imagine was Cobb. rose was not the BEST player. He just outworked everybody. If he did indeed bet AGAINST the Reds, and some posters here assert that he did, then I agree with the permanent ban.

I believe he was the last player/manager, too.

And I agree that if he bet against his team then the pernaban should stand.

 

[elvis]

Which is uber ghey.

I'd be hard pressed to come up many guys who played the game harder than Rose.

The only person I can imagine was Cobb. rose was not the BEST player. He just outworked everybody. If he did indeed bet AGAINST the Reds, and some posters here assert that he did, then I agree with the permanent ban.

I believe he was the last player/manager, too.

And I agree that if he bet against his team then the pernaban should stand.

I have never heard outside this forum that he HAD bet against the Reds.

 

[Article 15]

The only person I can imagine was Cobb. rose was not the BEST player. He just outworked everybody. If he did indeed bet AGAINST the Reds, and some posters here assert that he did, then I agree with the permanent ban.

I believe he was the last player/manager, too.

And I agree that if he bet against his team then the pernaban should stand.

I have never heard outside this forum that he HAD bet against the Reds.

I've never seen any evidence to support such a claim.

 

[Paulie]

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

If Rose bet AGAINST the Reds, the sins are equal. If he didn't, the steroiders are worse.

That always irked me. Did he ever bet against his team? If not then I don't see a damn thing wrong with it.

I'm a skeptical person by nature, so I have a hard time believing he didn't bet against his team. That's guaranteed money right there, he has the ability to make certain subtle moves that could potentially shave runs. Also, he knows exactly what he's getting out of a pitcher on a certain day, more than some schmuck off the street placing a bet. Why take the chance and place big bets on your sport, but pass on the surest thing you have available?

Everyone has a price.

 

[elvis]

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

If there is no Shoeless Joe Jackson, there can be no Pete Rose.

Please let this thread disappear. No, Dwight is not the best ever, and I'm sick of seeing the question.

I'm tired of seeing your posts, period. So......