Was Dwight Gooden the best ever?

[Xenophon]

was the 1985 Dwight Godden the best ever?

For one season?

I would have to say no.

 

[Article 15]

Bob Stanley

With honorable mention to Calvin Shiraldi.

Dude ...

 

[Article 15]

Ahem ...

Sandy Koufax 1963-1966 would like to have a word with you two:

1963: 25-5, 1.88 ERA, 11 SO, 311 IP, 303 K
1964: 19-5, 1.74 ERA, 7 SO, 223 IP, 223 K
1965: 26-8, 2.05 ERA, 8 SO, 335 IP, 382 K
1966: 27-9, 1.73 ERA, 5 SO, 323 IP, 317 K

And when it comes to pitchers I've actually seen in my lifetime (and that include Doc Gooded) Pedro Martinez is hands down the best.

sandy koufax and pedro had remarkably similar careera in terms of being domnant for a relatively brief time, but betrayed by their bodies. in my mind, gibson was the best i ever saw, koufax next and then pedro. pedro's the only one i actually saw live in games and he was absolutely amazing. definitely the nastiest changeup i've ever seen.

Flat out filthy.

 

[manifold]

Bob Stanley

With honorable mention to Calvin Shiraldi.

Dude ...

Too soon?

 

[Article 15]

Bob Stanley

With honorable mention to Calvin Shiraldi.

Dude ...

Too soon?

 

[del]

Bob Stanley

With honorable mention to Calvin Shiraldi.

Dude ...

Too soon?

where's the love for matt young?

 

[Article 15]

Dude ...

Too soon?

where's the love for matt young?

The dude that pitched a no-hitter for us but lost the freakin' game?

Yeah, that is mighty impressive.

 

[DamnYankee]

you sure that strikeout number in 65 is correct? 383 is the record by Nolan ryan.

i would say Koufax is right up there, but again, the mound was a different height.

Okay.... If you want to put (*) by the stats by virtue of the fact that the mound height was adjusted up/down during the tenure of the various pitchers, how about we put (*) by the stats of the homerun "kings" who became kings by virtue of steroid use?

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

 

[DamnYankee]

you sure that strikeout number in 65 is correct? 383 is the record by Nolan ryan.

i would say Koufax is right up there, but again, the mound was a different height.

Okay.... If you want to put (*) by the stats by virtue of the fact that the mound height was adjusted up/down during the tenure of the various pitchers, how about we put (*) by the stats of the homerun "kings" who became kings by virtue of steroid use?

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

So what sort of "curve" would you put on the stats to make an adjustment in consideration of the mound height? Or, who do you trust enough to determine what the "curve" will be?

 

[DamnYankee]

No he wasn't.

After three good years his drug abuse got far out of hand to the point where the Mets outright released him.

Ironically he would rebuild his reputation on the Yankees, winning another WS ring and pitching a no hitter.

was the 1985 Dwight Godden the best ever?

Since the Mets won the Series in '86, it's probably arguable that he was at his best then.

 

[Article 15]

Okay.... If you want to put (*) by the stats by virtue of the fact that the mound height was adjusted up/down during the tenure of the various pitchers, how about we put (*) by the stats of the homerun "kings" who became kings by virtue of steroid use?

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

 

[Article 15]

Okay.... If you want to put (*) by the stats by virtue of the fact that the mound height was adjusted up/down during the tenure of the various pitchers, how about we put (*) by the stats of the homerun "kings" who became kings by virtue of steroid use?

If you go that route it only makes Pedro look that much more dominant by pitching to roided up beasts in the heart of the steroid era, on a lower mound, and in a league with a DH.

And he owned them.

I absolutely agree. So, if we want to be truly objective about this, who has been the best [pitcher] ever? Or batter, for that matter? I, personally, don't subscribe to the notion that HRs necessarily make them the best batter.

Sorry, I missed this post ...

Best hitter is so much harder to quantify, IMO. There's just so many to choose from.

 

[DamnYankee]

The steroid users like Nim rod and barry bonds , McGwire, etc.should be BANNED FOR LIFE. Maris and Aaron are the home run kings and Bonds can go fuck himself.

I don't necessarily advocate asterisks, only saying the mound height should be considered.

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

So, obviously, in the minds of the powers that be, gambling on the sport in which you participate is much worse than drugging up or juicing up for the sport in which you participate.

 

[DamnYankee]

If you go that route it only makes Pedro look that much more dominant by pitching to roided up beasts in the heart of the steroid era, on a lower mound, and in a league with a DH.

And he owned them.

I absolutely agree. So, if we want to be truly objective about this, who has been the best [pitcher] ever? Or batter, for that matter? I, personally, don't subscribe to the notion that HRs necessarily make them the best batter.

Sorry, I missed this post ...

Best hitter is so much harder to quantify, IMO. There's just so many to choose from.

Yet the "sluggers" get the most attention for the most part. Example: Home Run Derby before the All Star Game. And without real pitching at that. Geez.... Maybe they should have gone to Hollywood.

 

[Article 15]

Rose is banned for life from the sport and from being a Hall of Famer. Was his sin worse?

Rose should be in the HoF, IMO

So, obviously, in the minds of the powers that be, gambling on the sport in which you participate is much worse than drugging up or juicing up for the sport in which you participate.

Unfortunately, yes, that seems to be the case.

 

[Article 15]

I absolutely agree. So, if we want to be truly objective about this, who has been the best [pitcher] ever? Or batter, for that matter? I, personally, don't subscribe to the notion that HRs necessarily make them the best batter.

Sorry, I missed this post ...

Best hitter is so much harder to quantify, IMO. There's just so many to choose from.

Yet the "sluggers" get the most attention for the most part. Example: Home Run Derby before the All Star Game. And without real pitching at that. Geez.... Maybe they should have gone to Hollywood.

lol ...

The masses love sluggers and the long ball. The die hards love pitching duels and hitters.

 

[Bfgrn]

What the hell happened? Did the drugs catch up to him?

1985 stats: 24-4, 16 CG, 8 SHO 268 SO, 1.53 ERA

Keep in mind, they raised the mound in 1972.

Gooden had a great rookie year, breaking the rookie strike out record that stood for 30 years.

The record was set by Herb Score in 1955, Score struck out 245 batters for the Cleveland Indians...

The best pitching staff no one ever talks about was that Cleveland staff in the mid '50's; Four Hall of Famers - Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Hal Newhouser. Plus all stars Mike Garcia, Ray Narleski, Don Mossi and Art Houtteman...

Herb Score had a great start, but sadly he was never the same after taking a line drive off the bat of Gil McDougald in 1957...

Tragic news...Nick Adenhart
A's shaken over death of Angels pitcher

 

[Article 15]

What the hell happened? Did the drugs catch up to him?

1985 stats: 24-4, 16 CG, 8 SHO 268 SO, 1.53 ERA

Keep in mind, they raised the mound in 1972.

Gooden had a great rookie year, breaking the rookie strike out record that stood for 30 years.

The record was set by Herb Score in 1955, Score struck out 245 batters for the Cleveland Indians...

The best pitching staff no one ever talks about was that Cleveland staff in the mid '50's; Four Hall of Famers - Bob Feller, Bob Lemon, Early Wynn and Hal Newhouser. Plus all stars Mike Garcia, Ray Narleski, Don Mossi and Art Houtteman...

Herb Score had a great start, but sadly he was never the same after taking a line drive off the bat of Gil McDougald in 1957...

Tragic news...Nick Adenhart
A's shaken over death of Angels pitcher

Forgot about Bob Feller. He was the man. I wish I could have seen the old times deal.

Adenhart is such a tragedy. The kid had such a bright future but at least he got to throw one good game before he died. He died a major league pitcher and his family should be proud.

The Sox are going to Anaheim to play the Angels tonight. I don't know if I can handle watching whatever they have planned for a pre-game ceremony.

 

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[Article 15]

That second pitch he threw had some serious mustard on it!