Was Constitutional Convention Really a Liberal Coup?

Discussion in 'US Constitution' started by EdwardBaiamonte, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. EdwardBaiamonte

    EdwardBaiamonte Platinum Member

    Nov 23, 2011
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    can you be specific??
  2. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Platinum Member

    Aug 8, 2016
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    We are established as a coumpound Republic.

    Here. I'll copypasta one of my personal pdf files for reference to what it was that the people of the time wanted. And accomplished. Sorry, I don;t feel like formatting it to fit in a web page.

    Principle 6 of the 12 basic principles of the traditional American philosophy of government....

    A Principle of The Traditional American Philosophy

    6. Decentralized Government

    ". . . true barriers [bulwarks] of our liberty in this country are our State governments . . ." (Thomas Jefferson, 1811
    letter to Destutt de Tracy)

    The Principle

    1. The traditional American philosophy teaches that
    decentralization of governmental power, to the maximum
    practicable extent, is essential to the security of Man's
    God-given, unalienable rights.

    Man's Unalienable Rights and "States Rights" Doubly

    2. It asserts that these rights are most securely protected by a
    federated system of government--consisting of a central
    government (a Republic) and State governments (each a
    Republic). Under this system, the whole quantity of
    governmental power is not only limited by written
    Constitution, Federal and State, but also decentralized so that
    the vast majority of powers are kept on the State and local
    levels. The correct definition of a Republic is: a constitutionally
    limited government of the representative type, created by a
    written Constitution--adopted by the people and changeable
    (from its original meaning) by them only by amendment--with
    its powers divided between three separate branches:
    Executive, Legislative and Judicial. The American system is "a
    compound Republic"--a federation, or combination, of central
    and State Republics--under which: "The different governments
    will control each other . . . ," while within each Republic there
    are two safeguarding features: (a) a division of powers, as well
    as (b) a system of checks and balances between separate
    departments: "Hence a double security arises to the rights of
    the people." (The Federalist, number 51, by Madison.)

    Greater Quantity of Power Retained by Each State

    3. By far the greater quantity and variety of power was
    retained by the government of each State when the United
    States Constitution was framed and adopted in 1787-1788.
    Only a comparatively small part of each State's power was
    delegated by its people to the new central, or Federal,
    government--chiefly the powers concerning "war, peace,
    negotiation and foreign commerce" (per The Federalist,
    number 45 by Madison). This delegated-power
    government--the central Republic--was granted few and
    limited powers; while each State's government is a full-power
    Republic under the State Constitution, subject to its
    restrictions, also to that grant, and to the few restrictions
    specified expressly in the United States Constitution as
    applying to the governments of the States.

    "Home Rule" the Basic, Controlling Principle

    4. This federated system of decentralized power is a chief
    characteristic of the American governmental arrangements.
    This is in keeping with the controlling intent of those who
    framed and adopted each of its Amendments. The main aim
    was to preserve maximum "Home Rule" by the States, to keep
    the greatest feasible quantity of power as close as possible to
    the source--the people--where they can best watch it alertly
    so as to check and prevent its abuse or misuse, as well as to
    prevent its unsound, or unnecessary, expansion, to the peril or
    perhaps doom of their liberties.

    Economic Liberty and Decentralized Government

    5. Such decentralized government is favorable, indeed
    essential, to America's traditional philosophy and system of
    economic liberty--the inseparable and indispensable economic
    aspect of the indivisible whole of Individual Liberty-
    Responsibility. This includes the system of individual, private,
    competitive enterprise (called Individual Enterprise--the term
    used by President Jefferson in his 1801 Annual Message to
    Congress). This system features a free-market economy--free
    from Government-over-Man controls, although subject to just
    regulation as authorized by the Constitution's pertinent
    provisions) under just laws expressive of "just powers" (to use
    the term of the Declaration of Independence) designed to
    protect the equal rights of all Individuals and thus to
    safeguard sound competition--which gives full play to
    individual initiative inspired by the incentive of economic
    liberty of The Individual and is a main characteristic of the
    traditional American philosophy. This right is not a goal or
    end, in and of itself, but a necessary means, and it is an
    essential and main support of Man's unalienable rights. It
    involves freedom of choice by both producer-seller and
    consumer-buyer, subject always to the potently persuasive
    influence of community opinion and standards in the sound
    environment of an ethical society which emphasizes the duty
    factor of Individual Liberty-Responsibility, including due
    respect for the equal rights of others. This means that the
    central government is limited strictly to the consistent role of
    mere regulation (not control) to those ends--regulation as
    limited by the Constitution. This excludes any control by the
    central government directly or indirectly of the whole or any
    part of the national economy, which includes all of the
    people's economic activities.
    The free-market economy is controlled by the people as a
    whole through their acting as buyers and sellers--a multitude
    of Individuals generally acting individually as both buyer and
    seller of things or services a number of times each day in the
    ordinary course of life's daily activities, involving transactions
    great or small--through their exercise of freedom of choice
    daily, even hourly; for example, the free-market economy is
    both a result and instrument of the exercise of this freedom of
    Individuals--not a mechanistic, independently operating
    "Thing" which oppressively controls human beings.

    Sample Warnings by The Founders

    6. The American people and their leaders in 1776-1787 were
    determined that the central government should never be
    allowed to possess power to act, or be permitted to act, as a
    "consolidated" government with sovereign, unlimited power
    over all of the people and things in the country. Vigilant friends
    of Individual Liberty, including for example leaders such as
    Thomas Jefferson, Samuel Adams, Alexander Hamilton and
    James Madison, warned repeatedly and emphatically against
    the danger of ever permitting such a government to exist in

    Samuel Adams' Opinion

    7. Samuel Adams, firebrand patriot-leader always in the lead
    for both American Independence and Man's Liberty against
    Government-over-Man, expressed fear in this regard in 1789
    (letter to Richard Henry Lee) in keeping with his never varying
    sentiments. He said that he feared misinterpretation of the
    Constitution would bring about fully centralized (consolidated)
    power in the Federal government at the expense of the States
    and "sink both in despotism."

    Hamilton's Opinion

    8. In the New York Ratifying Convention in 1788, Hamilton
    warned sharply that the States' powers reserved under the
    Constitution must be safeguarded for the sake of Individual
    Liberty and that Congress would never fail to safeguard them:
    ". . . unless they become madmen."

    Hamilton and Madison in "The Federalist"

    9. This sound line of thought was stressed by Hamilton and
    Madison, in their joint report in The Federalist (for example,
    numbers 17 and 28 by Hamilton, and 45 and 46 by Madison),
    recording the intent of the 1787 Framing Convention as
    expressed in the Constitution. The foregoing sentiments of
    these leaders were shared by their fellow leaders and the
    American people in general of that day--as reflecting truly
    American principles--and by Jefferson second to none.

    Jefferson's Opinion

    10. In his First Inaugural Address as President, Jefferson
    stated that the State governments are "the surest bulwarks
    against anti-republican tendencies"--that is, tendencies which
    conflict with the American form of government: a Republic. He
    stated in a letter to Destutt de Tracy (1811): "But the true
    barriers [bulwarks] of our liberty in this country are our State
    governments . . ." With regard to the people's freedom from
    Government-over-Man controls by the Federal government, in
    keeping with the Constitution's limits on that government's
    power, Jefferson stated in his Annual Message to Congress, in
    1801: "Agriculture, manufactures, commerce, and navigation,
    the four pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when
    left most free to individual enterprise." In the above-
    mentioned 1811 letter, Jefferson also discussed the
    prospective use of the Militia of the States--all acting
    together--to resist the forces of any Federal usurpers acting in
    violation of the Constitution to oppress or dominate the people
    or government of any State.

    Some Peaceable Remedies of the People Against an Offending Federal Government

    11. Some of the peaceable remedies of the people of any State
    against what they consider to be anti-Constitution, or
    otherwise offensive, conduct by the Federal government--by
    any of its Branches, or by all of them combined--as
    contemplated by the Convention which framed the
    Constitution, were specified in The Federalist number 46 by
    Madison, with silent acquiescence of his co-author Hamilton,
    as follows:

    "On the other hand, should an unwarrantable
    measure of the federal government be unpopular in
    particular states, which would seldom fail to be the
    case, or even a warrantable measure be so, which
    may sometimes be the case, the means of opposition
    to it are powerful and at hand. The disquietude of the
    people, their repugnance and perhaps refusal to
    co-operate with the officers of the union, the frowns
    of the executive magistracy [officials] of the state,
    the embarrassments created by legislative devices,
    which would often be added on such occasions,
    would oppose in any state difficulties not to be
    despised; would form in a large state very serious
    impediments, and where the sentiments of several
    adjoining states happened to be in union, would
    present obstructions which the federal government
    would hardly be willing to encounter."
    The most extremely "unwarrantable measure" is an
    unconstitutional measure. Madison here expressed the
    understanding also of those who framed the Constitution and
    of their fellow leaders in the State Ratifying Conventions as
    well as of the people in general--all extremely jealous of their
    hard-won liberties and determined to act vigorously against
    any danger to them from the greatly feared, central
    government if it should ever threaten to over-step the limits
    imposed on its powers under the constitution, as amended.
    Protests by State legislatures against what they would
    consider to be abuses of power or usurpations, potential or
    actual, by the central government were of course included as a
    main element in what Madison referred to her as "legislative
    devices . . . impediments . . . obstructions." Actual examples
    occurring afterward are the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions
    of 1798 and the Hartford Convention Resolutions of 1815
    (discussed in Principle 3, Pars. 5-6). Some additional remedies
    of the people, of a peaceable nature, are political action--use
    of the ballot in elections--and amendment of the Constitution
    by the people (Art. V); while impeachment by Congress of any
    officials guilty of acting as defaulting public trustees is
    provided for (Art. I, Sec. 2,3).

    State's Self-defense by Force, in Last Resort, per "The Federalist"

    12. With regard to use by the States of force--use of their
    Militia forces (all able-bodied males capable of bearing
    arms)--in self-defense against any Federal usurpers seeking to
    oppress or dominate one or more States by force in violation
    of the Constitution's limits on Federal power, Hamilton and
    Madison discussed at length and in detail in The Federalist
    (numbers 28 by Hamilton and 46 by Madison) the assumption
    and expectation of The Framers that all States would marshall
    their forces and act jointly to crush the usurpers' forces. This
    understanding of The Framers was shared by the members of
    the State Ratifying Conventions and the leaders and people in
    general of that day--all fearless foes of any and all enemies of
    Free Man in America. They believed that all true Americans
    must be ready to fight and die for Liberty, especially against
    tyrannical Federal officials who, as usurpers, violate not only
    the Constitution but also their oath of office: to support the
    Constitution only. It was also contemplated that any
    non-military force used by the Federal usurpers would be
    countered by the States' use of their own non-military forces:
    Sheriff's posses (posses comitatus) and any civilian police
    forces. (See also Par. 12 of Principle 5.)

    The Civil over The Military

    13. The traditional American philosophy requires, as a
    fundamental of the system of checks and balances, that The
    Civil must always be in complete control of The Military. The
    Founders and their fellow Americans were painfully aware of
    the lesson of history that large standing armies are, in
    peacetime, potentially dangerous to the people's liberties. In
    1776, the Virginia Declaration of Rights, for example, made
    this clear in these words: ". . . that standing armies in time of
    peace should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in
    all cases the military should be under strict subordination to,
    and governed by, the civil power." Another, related element in
    the system of checks and balances is the requirement of the
    Constitution (Article VI) that all Federal officials--both civil and
    military--take an oath to support the Constitution [only]; with
    the result that all military officers, thus controlled
    fundamentally and supremely by the Constitution, must be
    obedient to the civil authority--chief of all the President--but
    only as to orders which are not violative of the Constitution.
    The Military are, therefore, obligated by the Constitution not
    only to refuse to obey any orders of Federal usurpers--
    automatically made by the Constitution itself null and void
    from the start--but to support the Constitution only, at all
    times and under all circumstances, as the sovereign people's
    fundamental law. State officials, civil and military, are likewise
    so required to take an oath to support the Constitution of the
    United States--meaning, in part, to resist Federal usurpers by
    all necessary means: by force in last resort.

    The Conclusion

    14. The truly American formula, in accordance with the
    traditional philosophy, for sound and enduring
    self-government by means of constitutionally limited
    government with adequate protection assured for Individual

    Liberty, is this: Limited and Decentralized for Liberty!!!
  3. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Platinum Member

    Aug 8, 2016
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    One of the finest pieces of literature ever written on the topic (and much, much, more) is 'The American Ideal Of 1776: The Twelve Basic American Principles' by Hamilton Abert Long.

    I'll offer the preface here. Otherwise, do or do not read it. It's your loss, no mine.

    Publisher’s Note About The Book

    (From the cover jacket. Note: The author was the publisher.)

    The sole unifying influence spiritually, only common
    denominator--for all Americans of all races, colors, religions,
    creeds, ethnic origins, ages--is The American Ideal of 1776:
    the subject of the book.

    This Ideal’s definition--in the Declaration of Independence, in
    essence--is spelled out in this unique book as an indivisible
    whole: The Twelve Basic American Principles. This is 1776

    Intelligent choice--between 1776 Americanism and
    conflicting Isms (chiefly Socialism in the USA today)--requires
    primarily thorough knowledge of these Principles. Not to
    know them is to cheat oneself of the basic freedom: freedom
    of choice, between alternatives.

    Making this grave choice daily is inescapable for every adult
    citizen (by acts of omission or commission, or by opinion-
    ), confronted by problems of self-governing,
    performing duties of Liberty-Responsibility, to which The
    Twelve Principles are always pertinent.

    This is the only book in existence which enables every
    self-governing citizen to gain the needed knowledge of the
    whole of these Principles, never before thus defined, not
    taught in schools or colleges. Written for all Americans for all
    time, this fundamental book fills a critical need for young and
    old alike, will continue to do so for centuries.

    Working to make the 1776 Ideal effective governmentally, to
    preserve it for Posterity, is the imperative duty of every
    citizen. The book is the essential tool for all who wish to be
    worthy trustees for today’s children and future generations of
    their just heritage: this Ideal, its eternal values and the
    supporting Constitution, as The Founders intended. They
    believed to default about this is to betray.

    A lifetime source-book, it is invaluable for home and office
    use, most importantly for everyone who seeks to offer others
    guidance about this basic subject--particularly all civic and

    The Founders’ writings are the basis of the book’s Twelve
    Principles--like them, never changing. The book will therefore
    never need change, will be as valid and useful a century from
    now as during the Twin-Bicentennial Decade: 1976-1987 (the
    200th anniversary of the framing of the Constitution). It’s
    dependable scholarship is certified by eminent authorities’

    No scholar has faulted it.

    (75,000 hard-cover copies in print; 3rd printing 1976)
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  4. joaquinmiller

    joaquinmiller Diamond Member

    Oct 12, 2013
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    He cut revenue, not spending. You think that's anti-state? You're joking, right?

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