Warren and the Divine Right of Capital: Accountable Capitalism Act

[dblack]

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies

Consider the source of the "power private tyrannies". How do they hold power?

What's your opinion on the job of government?

If you weren't so busy googling for propaganda, and actually read the post you're responding to, you'd know.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalists corrupt government with their money.
Corporations provide capitalists with their money.
Government regulates corporations.

If you weaken government, capitalists and their corporations become stronger.
Isn't that what you really want?

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In my view government is there to maximize our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily. It's there to prevent bullies from forcing themselves on others. You, however, see the government as a tool for doing the bullying, a means of forcing your ideas on everyone else. This is why I've always seen socialism as fundamentally authoritarian. Even if it's run perfectly democratically, it still places the authority of government above all else.

EDIT: - I almost forgot to insert a silly graphic!

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Political positions of Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia

What's your opinion on the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Exactly!!

Because if Goldman Sachs wants to force me to ………….ummm………….I can't stop them because...…….

Help me out. I can't see anything that Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

Ditto for Exxon-Mobil, AT&T and Microsoft. Amazon.....Coke.....Walmart. Meh.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Lie #5: Libertarians are against big government
Lie #6 is even more egregious when you realize that libertarians are not, in fact, opposed to big government at all. That’s because the foundation of libertarianism is property rights. What are property rights? They are restrictions on who can and cannot use property. Who enforces property rights? Most libertarians agree that the government should, in fact, enforce property rights.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand that a government that gives to the poor is no bigger than a government that protects the property of the rich. In fact, the government that protects the rich is the real “big brother.”

Yes, their logic is always FUBAR. Medicare For All, simply by eliminating boatloads of private and public ACA redundancies, will require less overall private and public bureaucracy. More power my ass. The greed driven health insurance oligopoly dreamt up the ACA and bought some politicians to help force it down our throats.

 

[georgephillip]

Capitalists corrupt government with their money.
Corporations provide capitalists with their money.
Government regulates corporations.

If you weaken government, capitalists and their corporations become stronger.
Isn't that what you really want?

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In my view government is there to maximize our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily. It's there to prevent bullies from forcing themselves on others. You, however, see the government as a tool for doing the bullying, a means of forcing your ideas on everyone else. This is why I've always seen socialism as fundamentally authoritarian. Even if it's run perfectly democratically, it still places the authority of government above all else.

EDIT: - I almost forgot to insert a silly graphic!

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Political positions of Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia

What's your opinion on the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Exactly!!

Because if Goldman Sachs wants to force me to ………….ummm………….I can't stop them because...…….

Help me out. I can't see anything that Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

Ditto for Exxon-Mobil, AT&T and Microsoft. Amazon.....Coke.....Walmart. Meh.

Because if Goldman Sachs wants to force me to ………….ummm………….I can't stop them because...…….

Help me out. I can't see anything that Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

You can't see the influence Goldman Sachs wields over the economy you and millions of other individuals function within?

Fight Forced Arbitration|consumeradvocates.org

"What is forced arbitration?
In forced arbitration, a company requires a consumer or employee to submit any dispute that may arise to binding arbitration as a condition of employment or buying a product or service. The employee or consumer is required to waive their right to sue, to participate in a class action lawsuit, or to appeal. Forced arbitration is mandatory, the arbitrator’s decision is binding, and the results are not public.

"Where is forced arbitration commonly used?
Forced arbitration is being written into more and more terms of agreement and contracts, including those used for employment, insurance, home-building, car loans and leases, credit cards, retirement accounts, investment accounts, and nursing facilities, to name a few."

Can you see how power vacuums in the public sphere will be filled by private tyrannies?

Do you believe private courts and private police enhance individual liberties?

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

How many employees did you exploit?
What was your revenue?
The Divine Right of Capital by Marjorie Kelly: A Summary
"Capital Income + Retained earnings = Revenue – (Employee income + Cost of materials)
"Kelly uses some simple algebra to show that this formula could just as easily be re-written as:
"Employee income + Retained earnings = Revenue – (Capital income + Cost of materials)
"In other words, the company could just as easily be optimized to maximize employee income."

To toil or not to toil.....unfortunately, few humans have the luxury of choice.

In the Book of Common Sense......

Tis far better to work for an entity which is accountable to another, and of which you have the choice to leave.....
Than to be a slave for a Totalitarian entity of absolute power, which is accountable to no one.

I'm not certain you can figure that out, however.

 

[dblack]

What is forced arbitration?

Who's doing the forcing?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Capitalists corrupt government with their money.
Corporations provide capitalists with their money.
Government regulates corporations.

If you weaken government, capitalists and their corporations become stronger.
Isn't that what you really want?

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In my view government is there to maximize our freedom to create the kind of society we want, voluntarily. It's there to prevent bullies from forcing themselves on others. You, however, see the government as a tool for doing the bullying, a means of forcing your ideas on everyone else. This is why I've always seen socialism as fundamentally authoritarian. Even if it's run perfectly democratically, it still places the authority of government above all else.

EDIT: - I almost forgot to insert a silly graphic!

Setting aside the incorrect assumption that a weaker government means stronger corporations (corporate power depends on government power), I don't want to weaken government. I want it to have all the power it needs to do its job. The question is, what IS the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Political positions of Noam Chomsky - Wikipedia

What's your opinion on the job of government?

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies:

Exactly!!

Because if Goldman Sachs wants to force me to ………….ummm………….I can't stop them because...…….

Help me out. I can't see anything that Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

Ditto for Exxon-Mobil, AT&T and Microsoft. Amazon.....Coke.....Walmart. Meh.

Because if Goldman Sachs wants to force me to ………….ummm………….I can't stop them because...…….

Help me out. I can't see anything that Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

You can't see the influence Goldman Sachs wields over the economy you and millions of other individuals function within?

Fight Forced Arbitration|consumeradvocates.org

"What is forced arbitration?
In forced arbitration, a company requires a consumer or employee to submit any dispute that may arise to binding arbitration as a condition of employment or buying a product or service. The employee or consumer is required to waive their right to sue, to participate in a class action lawsuit, or to appeal. Forced arbitration is mandatory, the arbitrator’s decision is binding, and the results are not public.

"Where is forced arbitration commonly used?
Forced arbitration is being written into more and more terms of agreement and contracts, including those used for employment, insurance, home-building, car loans and leases, credit cards, retirement accounts, investment accounts, and nursing facilities, to name a few."

Can you see how power vacuums in the public sphere will be filled by private tyrannies?

Do you believe private courts and private police enhance individual liberties?

You can't see the influence Goldman Sachs wields over the economy you and millions of other individuals function within?

No, I don't see anything Goldman can do to me that requires government protection.

Why don't you explain what Goldman, Exxon, AT&T or Walmart can do to you?

 

[Grumblenuts]

I'm not certain you an figure that out,

You could make it easier..

an entity which is accountable

have the choice to leave

an Authoritative entity

accountable to no one

Your definitions with examples of each please?

 

[georgephillip]

Lie #5: Libertarians are against big government
Lie #6 is even more egregious when you realize that libertarians are not, in fact, opposed to big government at all. That’s because the foundation of libertarianism is property rights. What are property rights? They are restrictions on who can and cannot use property. Who enforces property rights? Most libertarians agree that the government should, in fact, enforce property rights.

It doesn’t take a genius to understand that a government that gives to the poor is no bigger than a government that protects the property of the rich. In fact, the government that protects the rich is the real “big brother.”

Yes, their logic is always FUBAR. Medicare For All, simply by eliminating boatloads of private and public ACA redundancies, will require less overall private and public bureaucracy. More power my ass. The greed driven health insurance oligopoly dreamt up the ACA and bought some politicians to help force it down our throats.

Yes, their logic is always FUBAR. Medicare For All, simply by eliminating boatloads of private and public ACA redundancies, will require less overall private and public bureaucracy. More power my ass. The greed driven health insurance oligopoly dreamt up the ACA and bought some politicians to help force it down our throats.

Liz Fowler was Obama's ACA architect.
She was well rewarded by the private sector before AND after her "public service".

Obamacare architect leaves White House for pharmaceutical industry job | Glenn Greenwald

"What was most amazing about all of that was that, before joining Baucus' office as the point person for the health care bill, Fowler was the Vice President for Public Policy and External Affairs (i.e. informal lobbying) at WellPoint, the nation's largest health insurance provider (before going to WellPoint, as well as after, Fowler had worked as Baucus' top health care aide).

"And when that health care bill was drafted, the person whom Fowler replaced as chief health counsel in Baucus' office, Michelle Easton, was lobbying for WellPoint as a principal at Tarplin, Downs, and Young."

 

[dblack]

What is forced arbitration?

Who's doing the forcing?

georgephillip - Do you have any examples of corporate tyranny that don't employ government?

 

[georgephillip]

In the context of 2019, I would say government's job is to protect the individual from the power of private tyrannies

Consider the source of the "power private tyrannies". How do they hold power?

What's your opinion on the job of government?

If you weren't so busy googling for propaganda, and actually read the post you're responding to, you'd know.

Consider the source of the "power private tyrannies". How do they hold power?

Through a corrupt economic system called capitalism, a few parasites are allowed to amass vast private fortunes which they then use to bribe elected government officials for favorable tax and trade policies.

You don't correct that by shrinking government; you correct that imbalance by limiting the power of private money on public policy.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Libertarianism has a special meaning predominantly in the United States. In the United States, it means dedication to extreme forms of tyranny. They don’t call it that, but it’s basically corporate tyranny, meaning tyranny by unaccountable private concentrations of power, the worst kind of tyranny you can imagine.

It picks up from the libertarian tradition one element, namely opposition to state power. But it leaves open all other forms of — and in fact favors — other forms of coercion and domination. So it’s radically opposed to the libertarian tradition, which was opposed to the master-servant relation.

 

[georgephillip]

What is forced arbitration?

Who's doing the forcing?

georgephillip - Do you have any examples of corporate tyranny that don't employ government?

Do you have any examples of corporate tyranny that don't employ government?

I'm unaware of any examples of corporations that don't require government for their existence, are you? It is impossible to diminish the power of corporations without using government, but I don't believe it's possible to shrink government without corporations filling that vacuum.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

Your definitions with examples of each please?

I'm very sorry, but I simply cannot fill the void you suffer as a life long result of your lack of education and common sense.

Apparently you were unable to figure it out as well. <sigh>

But hey....good luck.

 

[georgephillip]

Libertarianism has a special meaning predominantly in the United States. In the United States, it means dedication to extreme forms of tyranny. They don’t call it that, but it’s basically corporate tyranny, meaning tyranny by unaccountable private concentrations of power, the worst kind of tyranny you can imagine.

It picks up from the libertarian tradition one element, namely opposition to state power. But it leaves open all other forms of — and in fact favors — other forms of coercion and domination. So it’s radically opposed to the libertarian tradition, which was opposed to the master-servant relation.

Your link:

"The Founding Fathers actually were in favor of different conceptions of freedom of speech.

"There’s a narrow conception which interprets it as being a negative right, meaning you should be free of external interference.

"There’s a broader conception which regards it as a positive right: you should have a right to impart and access information, hence the positive interpretation.

"The United Nations accepts the positive interpretation, and theoretically, the US does too.

"If you look at the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I think Article 19 says that every person must have the right to express themselves without constraint and to impart and receive information over the widest possible range. That’s the positive right.

"That was a battleground in the 1930s and 1940s. Particularly right after the Second World War, there were high level commissions taking both sides. And the position that won out is what was called corporate libertarianism, meaning corporations have the right to do anything they want without any interference."

Call it a corporate democracy maybe?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Call it a corporate democracy maybe?

I wouldn't. Socialism for the rich perhaps. I agree "it’s basically corporate tyranny, meaning tyranny by unaccountable private concentrations of power, the worst kind of tyranny you can imagine."

Brought to you by... "Too Much!"

"I have entirely too much.. Somebody stop me!"
"We are ridiculously too big.. Won't someone or something break us up?!"

 

[Grumblenuts]

Great example:

What is forced arbitration?

Who's doing the forcing?

Duh, the one's telling you to either sign away your rights or leave.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Your definitions with examples of each please?

I'm very sorry, but I simply cannot fill the void you suffer as a life long result of your lack of education and common sense.

Apparently you were unable to figure it out as well. <sigh>

But hey....good luck.

K, so no answers.. just illogic and flung dung as expected. Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[georgephillip]

Call it a corporate democracy maybe?

I wouldn't. Socialism for the rich perhaps. I agree "it’s basically corporate tyranny, meaning tyranny by unaccountable private concentrations of power, the worst kind of tyranny you can imagine."

Brought to you by... "Too Much!"

"I have entirely too much.. Somebody stop me!"
"We are ridiculously too big.. Won't someone or something break us up?!"

Among many other example, Chomsky is correct about the extent to which business runs the US Government:

Creating the Horror Chambers: Noam Chomsky on the tyranny of libertarianism, the need for media democracy, and Latin American resistance to US imperialism

"America is to quite an unusual extent a business-run society.

"That’s why we have a very violent labor history.

"Much more so than comparable countries, and attacks on labor here were far more extreme.

"There are actual libertarian elements in the United States, like protection of freedom of speech, which is probably of a standard higher than other countries.

"But libertarianism is designed in the United States to satisfy the needs of private power."

 

[Grumblenuts]

David died in August. Charles carries on..