War on Christmas

[Anguille]

"For preventing disorders, arising in several places within this jurisdiction by reason of some still observing such festivals as were superstitiously kept in other communities, to the great dishonor of God and offense of others: it is therefore ordered by this court and the authority thereof that whosoever shall be found observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way, upon any such account as aforesaid, every such person so offending shall pay for every such offence five shilling as a fine to the county."

From the records of the General Court,
Massachusetts Bay Colony
May 11, 1659


When Christmas Was Banned

rep slaps, Goodman del, for keeping the facts straight.

Chalking was a no no then too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecilie -- sorry for the misunderstanding. This response wasn't to you, it was to YWN. In response to your post, she wrote 'Is the christmas spirit about doing good to others or is it all about YOU?'. My response was directed at her, not at you. I am in agreement with you on this whole Christmas thing, in case you didn't read my posts. Again, sorry for the confuion.

As I mentioned to you, I have YWN on ignore, so this probably contributed to the confusion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Y -- if you don't know what holiday someone celebrates, how do you greet them? Happy Holidays? Season's Greetings? Happy Solstice? Why? Because that's how you choose to extend season well-wishes to someone. If I celebrate Christmas, I say Merry Christmas therefore extending my season well-wishes to someone. Does that mean it is all about ME? No. Does it mean I am forcing my beliefs on you? No. Does it mean anything other than the fact that I am extending season well-wishes to you? No.

Read the following posts made by myself and Cecilie. Do you really, truly not get what we are saying? What part of 'I take it [and give it] in the spirit it's presumably intended' do you not get? Why do you insist on playing this 'it's all about you' game?





Edited to add: If I know someone does not celebrate Christmas but celebrates Hanukkah, I wish them a Happy Hanukkah. Likewise if I know they do not celebrate Christmas, then I would wish them Happy Holidays. But if I do not know, then I extend to them Merry Christmas and hope they are sure enough of themselves to receive it in the holiday spirit in which it was given.

I went to school with a girl who was Jewish. I still wished her a Merry Christmas, and she wished me a Happy Hanukkah. I don't actually have a clue when Hanukkah is, and it seems like it doesn't always fall precisely at the same time every year, or something, so I would just confuse everyone if I tried to wish them a happy holiday that I know nothing about.

The way I see it, with my method, she and I BOTH got two happy holidays for the price of one.

 

[Cecilie1200]

There are always those few who spoil it for the masses. Most people who complain about this just want Christ kept in Christmas and Christmas kept in the picture. Really, is that asking so much?

I just want everyone to stop pissing in the pool and making the rest of the world miserable over their own way-too-thin skins. Y'wanna be a grouchy curmudgeon? Fine. Stay home with your doors locked, glaring out the window at the neighbors, like curmudgeons used to do. Don't take out advertisements and file lawsuits and whatever else to make sure everyone else is pissed off, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The vast majority of Americans DO celebrate Christmas, and most "Holiday" warriors do nothing but slap Christians in the face, slap the celebrators of other holiday's in the face by making them feel like the nuisance that spoiled the fun, and do not respect or reflect anybody's true feelings about the phrase "Merry Christmas" or the use of the word "Christmas" in general.

I think most of us know it's not really the Jewish community, or the Muslim community, or whatever other religious community that's being the nuisance spoiling everyone's fun. It's not even most of the secular folks. It's a very vocal handful of jerks out there who never outgrew the need to throw tantrums and be unbearable burdens on every social occasion.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My f-ing cat is waging a war on Christmas ... as in "the tree" ... and he might not survive to see the new year.

We put a special fuse on the cord for the tree lights, to keep the cat from burning the house down whenever she eventually electrocutes her own fool self by chewing on the lights. ::sigh::

On the bright side, at least I'll have furry slippers - and possibly mittens as well - this year.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I hear you. My cat insists on eating the garland (or plastic bags or tape off of packages) then waiting until I'm just dozing off to reguritate it all over the floor by the bed.

I remember the last year we had tinsel on the tree. Mom had to take the cat to the vet to get a big ball of the stuff removed from her digestive tract. The bills were horrendous. We've been tinsel-free ever since.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The tree's not the problem. It's the ornaments he likes to see which ones will break on the hardwood floor.

On the bright side, at least he's not actually CLIMBING the tree. We had a cat once who thought he should be the angel at the top.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I would be ecstatic if I had some snow for Christmas!

I'd be stunned, this being a desert and all.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Pilgrims.

The puritanical pilgrims migrated to North America to practice their ultra conservative brand of Christianity. They did NOT believe in celebrating Christmas. They abhorred it as a matter of fact. In 1669 the descendants of the original pilgrims outlawed Christmas! The holiday was looked down upon during the entire Revolutionary War.

And the Puritans were known for considering having fun to be evil, so that would fit in nicely with the whole "Scrooge" characterization.

The religious folk on the other end of the War On Christmas spectrum, who want to bitch and moan about how it's "really celebrating something pagan" need to pick the wedgie out about as much as the atheists do, in my never-humble opinion. Lighten up, for crying out loud.

 

[Munin]

I don't understand why you guys see christmas as purely religious? And why "merry christmas" was replaced by "happy holidays"

In Europe it is seen as a tradition, that is part of our culture so that s why we here in Europe only say christmas. We also have separation of church and state, but this doesn't make us "delete" national traditions, national heritage and culture.

This is why Christmas is culture:
Santa Claus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christmas tree - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mistletoe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

National heritage:
"The modern depiction of Santa Claus as a plump, jolly man wearing a red coat and trousers with white cuffs and collar, and black leather belt and boots, became popular in the United States in the 19th century due to the significant influence of caricaturist and political cartoonist Thomas Nast.[3] This image has been maintained and reinforced through song, radio, television, and films. In the United Kingdom and Europe, his depiction is often identical to the American Santa, but he is commonly called Father Christmas."

I understand that Christmas literally means the birth of christ, but the modern general meaning of christmas has much less to do with christ then many religious conservatives would want it to be related with it. To me it seems like the same as Halloween or new years day or the number of the year we are in (the year 0 (at wich we begin our counting) is the birth of christ).

 

[Ravi]

I just want everyone to stop pissing in the pool and making the rest of the world miserable over their own way-too-thin skins. Y'wanna be a grouchy curmudgeon? Fine. Stay home with your doors locked, glaring out the window at the neighbors, like curmudgeons used to do. Don't take out advertisements and file lawsuits and whatever else to make sure everyone else is pissed off, too.

Making people like you miserable is just a bonus.

 

[YWN666]

That is not the actual case. Businesses are trying to avoid being sued by the hyperlitigious culture that is America because lawsuits often end up costing a lot of money that on balance would not make putting up a simple sign saying "Merry Christmas" worth it.

That is a lot of baloney. On what basis would anyone sue a store for putting up a sign that says Merry Christmas?? What would the cause of action be?

 

[YWN666]

I just want everyone to stop pissing in the pool and making the rest of the world miserable over their own way-too-thin skins. Y'wanna be a grouchy curmudgeon? Fine. Stay home with your doors locked, glaring out the window at the neighbors, like curmudgeons used to do. Don't take out advertisements and file lawsuits and whatever else to make sure everyone else is pissed off, too.

It is the christians who are complaining about this non-existent war on christmas that are too thin skinned.

 

[Grismonda]

because we don't invite any jerkwad atheists who want to turn a simple holiday into a culture war, and then pretend they have no idea what everyone's mad at them for.

Instead you can invite some Druids over and make it a very merry day! Also invite a few Persians (Roman soliders actually) to cover Mithros....while you are at it!

 

[FistyTheBadger]

I think most of us know it's not really the Jewish community, or the Muslim community, or whatever other religious community that's being the nuisance spoiling everyone's fun. It's not even most of the secular folks. It's a very vocal handful of jerks out there who never outgrew the need to throw tantrums and be unbearable burdens on every social occasion.

I agree, but the handful of jerks are very vocal and very powerful.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

That is a lot of baloney. On what basis would anyone sue a store for putting up a sign that says Merry Christmas?? What would the cause of action be?

Discrimination and prejudice.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lack of anything better to do.

 

[Grismonda]

"really celebrating something pagan" need to pick the wedgie out about as much as the atheists do, in my never-humble opinion. Lighten up, for crying out loud.

They are celebrating Christ's b'day, on a day which historically is considered not his birthday. They are doing so by using "pagan" traditions to honor his birthday... This is why our founding fathers (those Pilgrims I wrote about) did NOT celebrate Christmas....they indeed needed to lighten UP!

Early Christian leaders understood to increase their fellowship, the Christian church needed to adopt some of the traditions of various pagan holidays. Hence Christ's b'day was incorporated into other holidays celebrated during this time by pagans...ie; tree celebration, mithros, etc...

Who cares? This whole war on Christmas was invented NOT by atheists but by a few paranoid Christians that need to lighten up...

Celebrate the HOLIDAY SEASON in the way that makes you the happiest. Every culture has a golden rule, so to speak... Do unto others.... Well, do unto others and wish that person happiness in the way he seeks happiness.

So all you paranoid Christians..Merry Christmas, Happy B'Day to Christ!

 

[sky dancer]

And your latest stand seems to be, "Ohmigod, people are on political message boards TALKING ABOUT THEIR BELIEFS! YOU FRIGGING DRAMA QUEENS! SHUT UP ABOUT WHAT YOU BELIEVE! HOW DARE YOU HOLD AN OPINION!"

Sorry, why are you here again, if you think it's so damned stupid to argue and debate beliefs and positions? Maybe instead of telling everyone to shut up every time they dare to espouse their opinions, you should just go the hell away so you can't hear them.

FLUSH!

We're here to discuss whether there is a war on Christmas or not. Isn't that why you're here too?

We're here to discuss our opinions and to back them up. There is no war on Christmas. Christmas is alive and well.

There does appear to be conflict about whether it makes any sense in a multi-cultural America to extend the same greeting to all, no matter who they are.