War Being Decided on Op-ed Pages instead of Battlefield?

[insein]

You think that because then, as now, there was a badly run war for badly run reasons with brave troops being sacrificed for the vanity of a few in power. And in both cases, the flow of information, giving people a chance to make a reasonable assessment of the situation, resulted in the unpopularity of the war.

That said, I think both then and now, had overwhelming force been used originally, the war would have been much different.

Absolutely! Now why couldnt we use "overwhelming force" to annhilate the enemy and end the war sooner? Because the media that was there kpet reporting the bloodshed and horror of the battlefield to the people in America. The protestors of Vietnam called our soldiers baby-killers, rapists and murderers from what they saw and had reported to them from the media at the time. The Media managed to end a war in defeat because politicians didnt want negative headlines instead of just killing the enemy and ending the war. Politicians got involved because people were outraged at what they saw on tv and read in the papers.

That is exactly what is happening today. Every death is reported like a raffle giveaway on the nightly news. Every car bomb shown is another shot at the American Psyche and its ability to handle the task that we must undertake. Every new manufactured "Scandal" like Abu Gharib just eats away at any moral backbone our nation had and weakens their will to do what must be done. The enemy knows that they can't possibly win if America just rolled through and destroyed them. They do know that with our media, they can make it seem like we're the enemy to the world though and that we are picking on the poor, innocent terrorists who just want to kill those who don't believe their religion in peace. IS that too much to ask?

 

[Avatar4321]

First, I dont think this CNN video is going to help the terrorists. Yeah they show a sniper taking out a soldier, which is totally tasteless. But the more i hear about the video the more it makes me mad at the terrorists and wants me to take them down. Im not going to run away because they kill us. I want us to take them out so they cant do it to anyone else.

Second, only a complete idiot without any sort of perspective thinks that Iraq is somehow different than the war on terror. Its the same war. The war on terror and any regime that supports it. Clearly Iraq fell into that prior to the invasion. No one can deny that with any sort of honesty. You might think its an unnecessary part of the war on terror, but its definately part of it.

Third, Im tired of people assuming the war on iraq is a failure or a mess. Ive seen absolutely no evidence to suggest either. But you guys are acting like its a foregone conclusion. Until the premise is proven, dont accept it.

Stop letting the liberal media frame the discussion. Stop letting them act as though their presumptions are fact without them proving it.

 

[Adam's Apple]

That is exactly what is happening today. Every death is reported like a raffle giveaway on the nightly news. Every car bomb shown is another shot at the American Psyche and its ability to handle the task that we must undertake. Every new manufactured "Scandal" like Abu Gharib just eats away at any moral backbone our nation had and weakens their will to do what must be done. The enemy knows that they can't possibly win if America just rolled through and destroyed them. They do know that with our media, they can make it seem like we're the enemy to the world though and that we are picking on the poor, innocent terrorists who just want to kill those who don't believe their religion in peace. IS that too much to ask?

And haven't we seen the above played out on CBS, CNN, ABC, and NBC newscasts and reported front page in the NYT and the WaPo to obtain the results mentioned? The leaders of the terrorists networks openly state that winning the battle in the media is as important as winning battlefield victories. And, too bad for us, they've found a winning accomplice in the left-wing anti-war, anti-Bush American media.

 

[Adam's Apple]

There are many problems with the reporting, but it's not from the 'embeds', which number all of nine recently:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/844nigml.asp?pg=1

Good article from a war reporter's point of view, Kathianne. When Yon asks his readers not to blame the media, he also makes it clear that he understands the problem with troop embeds and the opportunity that gives them to make negative reports: "The media are far from perfect. War reporters, like everyone else, get things wrong. Some of them, unsympathetic to the war aims, undoubtedly try to twist the news. But no coverage at all is even worse."

If Yon has picked up on the embeds who are "unsympathetic to the war aims", so has the military. I am sure that most of the embed applications come from the MSM, who are anti-war, anti-Bush and totally unsympathetic to the WOT. We've all witnessed this negative reporting from the very beginning. We seldom get news of the positive results of this war because it doesn't fit in with the dominant MSM's political agenda.

And I disagree with Yon's statement that "no coverage at all is even worse." How is twisted news coverage, cherry-picked to support a political agenda better than receiving no coverage at all?

 

[Annie]

Good article from a war reporter's point of view, Kathianne. When Yon asks his readers not to blame the media, he also makes it clear that he understands the problem with troop embeds and the opportunity that gives them to make negative reports: "The media are far from perfect. War reporters, like everyone else, get things wrong. Some of them, unsympathetic to the war aims, undoubtedly try to twist the news. But no coverage at all is even worse."

If Yon has picked up on the embeds who are "unsympathetic to the war aims", so has the military. I am sure that most of the embed applications come from the MSM, who are anti-war, anti-Bush and totally unsympathetic to the WOT. We've all witnessed this negative reporting from the very beginning. We seldom get news of the positive results of this war because it doesn't fit in with the dominant MSM's political agenda.

And I disagree with Yon's statement that "no coverage at all is even worse." How is twisted news coverage, cherry-picked to support a political agenda better than receiving no coverage at all?

Once you get past Hussein's statue being torn down, there have been a dwindling number of embeds. Most of the negative reports do not come from those with the troops-just like they didn't in previous actions. The truly negative reporting by and large comes from those sitting in press rooms in the Green Zone, who write from briefings and their own perspectives.

 

[sitarro]

I'm curious Jili,
Would you back CNN if, while Congress would be debating the legality of partial birth abortions, they would gleefully show videos of just that.... the murder of fully formed young human beings in a most gruesome way. How do you dance around that need for the public, especially young mothers to be, to know just what the dildoes in Congress(especially from the left) debate about.Hmmmmmmmmm?

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm curious Jili,
Would you back CNN if, while Congress would be debating the legality of partial birth abortions, they would gleefully show videos of just that.... the murder of fully formed young human beings in a most gruesome way.

Terrible example in so many ways...

 

[insein]

Terrible example in so many ways...

Actually it is a similar comparison. Jillian wants us to see every death of a soldier int primetime despite the negative effect it has on the American psyche and its willingness to complete the mission during tough times.

Therefore, showing the actually activity of an abortion and the gruesome visuals that it entails will show everyone exactly what we're dealing with in Partial Birth abortions for those that think its all peaches and cream.

Personally, i want to see neither.

 

[Dr Grump]

Actually it is a similar comparison. Jillian wants us to see every death of a soldier int primetime despite the negative effect it has on the American psyche and its willingness to complete the mission during tough times..

She said no such thing. Using such emotive language without anything to back it up doesn't help your POV...hers was a more generic overview about the role of the media. Not once did she say she wanted to see the death of soldiers on television.

 

[sitarro]

Has anyone else noticed that Jili and grumpy are never in the same thread at the same time? I'm starting to believe they are one and the same.

 

[MtnBiker]

Has anyone else noticed that Jili and grumpy are never in the same thread at the same time? I'm starting to believe they are one and the same.

:teeth:

Funny thought, however they have not shared any IP address.

 

[Dr Grump]

Has anyone else noticed that Jili and grumpy are never in the same thread at the same time? I'm starting to believe they are one and the same.

Has anyone ever noticed Shitty hardly has anything to say but belittle others and bitch and moan all the time?

 

[Dr Grump]

:teeth:

Funny thought, however they have not shared any IP address.

And considering we are thousands of kilometres apart....

 

[MtnBiker]

Kilometers?

What, are you Canadian?

 

[Dr Grump]

Kilometers?

What, are you Canadian?

No. Much, much further away. Although last time somebody traced my ISP it went to Long Beach, Cal. Dunno how that works cause I've only been to California twice, and the last time was 26 years ago...

Gotta go...

 

[1549]

A thought on the original subject...

op-ed pages are published public discourse. The sentiment of the people expressed in public discussion is ultimately what dictates a democracy. This democracy has been deviating from its original intent for a half century or so. Handing over power of war and nuclear deployment to the President was a major blow to the strength of the people in this nation. It is sickening what has happened.

 

[sitarro]

Has anyone ever noticed Shitty hardly has anything to say but belittle others and bitch and moan all the time?

Hey grump,
Have you ever noticed that you spend a lot of type bitching and moaning about other's bitching and moaning? When you refer to me as shitty, is that an example of belittling others like you accuse me of? Just curious since you obviously know everything worth knowing, never make an error, have complete and total command of the english language and could clearly take over the Presidency from President Bush. Your understanding of all that is important and not is just amazing, really, I'm not being sarcastic..... really!



Oh by the way...... :fu2:

 

[Dr Grump]

Hey grump,
Have you ever noticed that you spend a lot of type bitching and moaning about other's bitching and moaning?:

Um, no. Just you. In fact, I thought you and NT were joined at the hip with the amount of moaning and wailing you guys did.

When you refer to me as shitty, is that an example of belittling others like you accuse me of?

At the risk of sounding like a five-year-old, you started it. Instead of countering my point about your piss-weak point you got personal. No biggie this end. I just responded in kind. You can’t handle it, don’t give it out.

Just curious since you obviously know everything worth knowing, never make an error, have complete and total command of the english language and could clearly take over the Presidency from President Bush.

Where have I ever claimed the above? And what does that have to do with the price of fish in China? Out of the two of us, only one of us has chastised another poster for their command of the English language in the first instance, and it wasn’t me.

Your understanding of all that is important and not is just amazing, really, I'm not being sarcastic..... really!:

When you have something valuable to add to a debate, let me know. It’ll be a cold day in hell, but who knows, you could be full of surprises.

 

[sitarro]

Um, no. Just you. In fact, I thought you and NT were joined at the hip with the amount of moaning and wailing you guys did.




At the risk of sounding like a five-year-old, you started it. Instead of countering my point about your piss-weak point you got personal. No biggie this end. I just responded in kind. You can’t handle it, don’t give it out.



Where have I ever claimed the above? And what does that have to do with the price of fish in China? Out of the two of us, only one of us has chastised another poster for their command of the English language in the first instance, and it wasn’t me.



When you have something valuable to add to a debate, let me know. It’ll be a cold day in hell, but who knows, you could be full of surprises.

Like I said before:finger:

 

[Dr Grump]

Like I said before:finger:

Great answer!:moon4: