Want to Keep Pot Illegal? Time to Justify...

[Katzndogz]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree. There are currently millions of non-violent offenders in prison simply for their connection to marijuana. That's a lot of people you're going to need to "replace" to fill up the prisons once again.

When you get high, you don't just go on a crime spree, lol. We're not talking Bath Salts or LSD or something that severely changes your perception of the world and ability to think rationally. You are the exact same person that you were before smoking the drug (specifically when we're talking marijuana); in fact, you're likely to be a bit more paranoid and cautious and much less likelier to commit a crime in my view.

No crimes, no problem, is the idea.

If everything is legalized, what would it matter if someone took a non-toxic drug in careful circumstances where they wouldn't kill or die or hurt someone?

But when they take bad drugs like meth or PCP or "bath salts" and, you know, eat someone's face off, that would send them to prison or they'd die soon. And everyone else would be better off.

I figure it might be quite a circus for 20 years, but then all the people who do that sort of thing would be dead or marginal and the rest would be smart enough to stay away from bad drugs.

I would pair this freedom with educational campaigns. Now there is not much education against drugs, not as much as there could be, because drugs are illegal so it's a bad idea to publicly assume everyone can get them anyway, though of course that is probably true to some extent. It could be like the anti-smoking campaigns. Assume people are freely doing this and hit it hard as incredibly stupid and unhealthy and generally bad. That would help young people and confused people, maybe.

The difference is, smoking doesn't make someone high. Drug addicts will chase that high to their deaths, and the deaths of anyone else too. The way to deal with those who feel good and get high, then eat someone's face off is really to allow more concealed weapons. Strengthen laws supporting self defense AND defense of others. There's no reason why these killers should go to prison. Drop them where they stand, save a lot of money.

 

[Circe]

It's a HUGE source of revenue for the drug cartels

It won't be, soon. Very soon, probably within two years. I'd say we're close to the tipping point now when marijuana becomes commodified and gets local production and taxation.

Then the illegal drug trafficers will switch entirely to very dangerous drugs like meth and the incidence of crime would go way up.

I'm not actually interested in marijuana; it's a done deal. I worry about the hard drugs causing the crimes around my county ----------- and that's not marijuana, be sure.

 

[KevinWestern]

I'm going to have to strongly disagree. There are currently millions of non-violent offenders in prison simply for their connection to marijuana. That's a lot of people you're going to need to "replace" to fill up the prisons once again.

When you get high, you don't just go on a crime spree, lol. We're not talking Bath Salts or LSD or something that severely changes your perception of the world and ability to think rationally. You are the exact same person that you were before smoking the drug (specifically when we're talking marijuana); in fact, you're likely to be a bit more paranoid and cautious and much less likelier to commit a crime in my view.

No crimes, no problem, is the idea.

If everything is legalized, what would it matter if someone took a non-toxic drug in careful circumstances where they wouldn't kill or die or hurt someone?

But when they take bad drugs like meth or PCP or "bath salts" and, you know, eat someone's face off, that would send them to prison or they'd die soon. And everyone else would be better off.

I figure it might be quite a circus for 20 years, but then all the people who do that sort of thing would be dead or marginal and the rest would be smart enough to stay away from bad drugs.

I would pair this freedom with educational campaigns. Now there is not much education against drugs, not as much as there could be, because drugs are illegal so it's a bad idea to publicly assume everyone can get them anyway, though of course that is probably true to some extent. It could be like the anti-smoking campaigns. Assume people are freely doing this and hit it hard as incredibly stupid and unhealthy and generally bad. That would help young people and confused people, maybe.

The difference is, smoking doesn't make someone high. Drug addicts will chase that high to their deaths, and the deaths of anyone else too. The way to deal with those who feel good and get high, then eat someone's face off is really to allow more concealed weapons. Strengthen laws supporting self defense AND defense of others. There's no reason why these killers should go to prison. Drop them where they stand, save a lot of money.

Not sure how involved you've been with marijuana in the past, but "chasing the high" generally doesn't apply to pot as much as it does something more intense like heroin. People will drain their life savings, steal from friends, ect to experience the first "mega high" from heroin and will become highly addicted and enslaved to the drug.

Marijuana is non-addictive, and more or less a simple plant that makes people relaxed (while still retaining all normal cognitive function). I'd compare it to no more dangerous or mind altering than many over the counter pain medications.

 

[Katzndogz]

Marijuana users don't go on crime sprees. Their crimes are ones of negligence. The mother who put her baby on top of the car then drove off. The person who forgot they left the stove on, candle burning or the baby in the bathtub. Like my step granddaughter who put a six year old as baby sitter of an 8 month old, took the three year old to the store and forgot the child until she got hit by a car. That's what pot users do. Pot users don't beat their wives, they forgot to put the brownies away until the children are poisoned. I have relatives in Colorado, since pot was declared legal, the veterinarians have seen a boom in treating animals that have been poisoned by pot. Use among children has skyrocketed with the result that schools are dealing with kids too high to learn anything.

Pot might be worse than heroin simply because it is more insideous. However, there is nothing to stop legalization as long as others are permitted to protect themselves without legal impediment.

 

[KevinWestern]

It won't be, soon. Very soon, probably within two years. I'd say we're close to the tipping point now when marijuana becomes commodified and gets local production and taxation.

Then the illegal drug trafficers will switch entirely to very dangerous drugs like meth and the incidence of crime would go way up.

I'm not actually interested in marijuana; it's a done deal. I worry about the hard drugs causing the crimes around my county ----------- and that's not marijuana, be sure.

I might be wrong, but given how difficult the marijuana fight has been (I agree though, it is at a tipping point), I think we're a long way off from seeing meth (and some of the actual dangerous drugs) legalized.

Too, I think if Pot becomes legal, many folks will decide to just go with that instead of having to cook up fantastically dangerous meth labs filled with chemicals, ect just to get high.

They'll have a nice, safe, and legal alternative to choose from.

 

[KevinWestern]

Marijuana users don't go on crime sprees. Their crimes are ones of negligence. The mother who put her baby on top of the car then drove off. The person who forgot they left the stove on, candle burning or the baby in the bathtub. Like my step granddaughter who put a six year old as baby sitter of an 8 month old, took the three year old to the store and forgot the child until she got hit by a car. That's what pot users do. Pot users don't beat their wives, they forgot to put the brownies away until the children are poisoned. I have relatives in Colorado, since pot was declared legal, the veterinarians have seen a boom in treating animals that have been poisoned by pot. Use among children has skyrocketed with the result that schools are dealing with kids too high to learn anything.

Pot might be worse than heroin simply because it is more insideous. However, there is nothing to stop legalization as long as others are permitted to protect themselves without legal impediment.

Yes, but all those things you mentioned... wouldn't alcohol have the same effect?

If you wake up and get slammed, you can leave the stove on, put the kid on the top of the car (and forget), ect, ect. Because alcohol is legal, shouldn't we already be experiencing this epidemic of everyday people with impaired judgement?

Like alcohol, it will be up to the user to use responsibly; you can smoke all day, everyday, but good luck getting a job.

 

[Katzndogz]

No crimes, no problem, is the idea.

If everything is legalized, what would it matter if someone took a non-toxic drug in careful circumstances where they wouldn't kill or die or hurt someone?

But when they take bad drugs like meth or PCP or "bath salts" and, you know, eat someone's face off, that would send them to prison or they'd die soon. And everyone else would be better off.

I figure it might be quite a circus for 20 years, but then all the people who do that sort of thing would be dead or marginal and the rest would be smart enough to stay away from bad drugs.

I would pair this freedom with educational campaigns. Now there is not much education against drugs, not as much as there could be, because drugs are illegal so it's a bad idea to publicly assume everyone can get them anyway, though of course that is probably true to some extent. It could be like the anti-smoking campaigns. Assume people are freely doing this and hit it hard as incredibly stupid and unhealthy and generally bad. That would help young people and confused people, maybe.

The difference is, smoking doesn't make someone high. Drug addicts will chase that high to their deaths, and the deaths of anyone else too. The way to deal with those who feel good and get high, then eat someone's face off is really to allow more concealed weapons. Strengthen laws supporting self defense AND defense of others. There's no reason why these killers should go to prison. Drop them where they stand, save a lot of money.

Not sure how involved you've been with marijuana in the past, but "chasing the high" generally doesn't apply to pot as much as it does something more intense like heroin. People will drain their life savings, steal from friends, ect to experience the first "mega high" from heroin and will become highly addicted and enslaved to the drug.

Marijuana is non-addictive, and more or less a simple plant that makes people relaxed (while still retaining all normal cognitive function). I'd compare it to no more dangerous or mind altering than many over the counter pain medications.

Pot makes SOME people more relaxed. Pot also skrockets the heart rate and leads to heart attack and stroke. Take you chance which one are you.

I've known MANY heart attack and stroke victims from marijuana use. Now if you really think marijuana does not impair cognitive functioning you might be too high to accept that it really does. Not only during use, but for at least a day after use.

The Effects of Marijuana on Cognitive Functioning

 

[KevinWestern]

The difference is, smoking doesn't make someone high. Drug addicts will chase that high to their deaths, and the deaths of anyone else too. The way to deal with those who feel good and get high, then eat someone's face off is really to allow more concealed weapons. Strengthen laws supporting self defense AND defense of others. There's no reason why these killers should go to prison. Drop them where they stand, save a lot of money.

Not sure how involved you've been with marijuana in the past, but "chasing the high" generally doesn't apply to pot as much as it does something more intense like heroin. People will drain their life savings, steal from friends, ect to experience the first "mega high" from heroin and will become highly addicted and enslaved to the drug.

Marijuana is non-addictive, and more or less a simple plant that makes people relaxed (while still retaining all normal cognitive function). I'd compare it to no more dangerous or mind altering than many over the counter pain medications.

Pot makes SOME people more relaxed. Pot also skrockets the heart rate and leads to heart attack and stroke. Take you chance which one are you.

I've known MANY heart attack and stroke victims from marijuana use. Now if you really think marijuana does not impair cognitive functioning you might be too high to accept that it really does. Not only during use, but for at least a day after use.

The Effects of Marijuana on Cognitive Functioning

Hi Katz, the article says that although marijuana can affect short term memory, it likely does not impact the intelligibility of the user (see conclusion).

Either way, yes, Marijuana has effects on its users, but enough to justify the billions of dollars, prison space, court resources, and police offers used to enforce prohibition?

I think the answer is a resounding no.

I would like the people who are for prohibition to step forth and justify those costs.

Again, if marijuana prohibition was free and had no negative financial impact on society (other than the prohibition of marijuana), my plea for legalization would be more difficult. But because prohibition costs us SO MUCH in a time of deep deficits, I think those who want it to stay legal must justify why.

 

[Katzndogz]

The benefit of alcohol has never justified its cost. There is nothing that evidences adding pot users to the numers of drunks will show any reduction to the costs. At best the alcoholic will leave the baby in the bath tub and so will the pot user.

If you think of all the dire prediction made by the prohibitionists against alcohol they were all true. The most outrageous actually came to pass. There are those who imagine based on no evidence at all that pot will be used responsibly. After all you use pot responsibly so will everyone else.

Legalize it all and let them use themselved to death. Just don't burden others with the medical care.

 

[Katzndogz]

Not sure how involved you've been with marijuana in the past, but "chasing the high" generally doesn't apply to pot as much as it does something more intense like heroin. People will drain their life savings, steal from friends, ect to experience the first "mega high" from heroin and will become highly addicted and enslaved to the drug.

Marijuana is non-addictive, and more or less a simple plant that makes people relaxed (while still retaining all normal cognitive function). I'd compare it to no more dangerous or mind altering than many over the counter pain medications.

Pot makes SOME people more relaxed. Pot also skrockets the heart rate and leads to heart attack and stroke. Take you chance which one are you.

I've known MANY heart attack and stroke victims from marijuana use. Now if you really think marijuana does not impair cognitive functioning you might be too high to accept that it really does. Not only during use, but for at least a day after use.

The Effects of Marijuana on Cognitive Functioning

Hi Katz, the article says that although marijuana can affect short term memory, it likely does not impact the intelligibility of the user (see conclusion).

Either way, yes, Marijuana has effects on its users, but enough to justify the billions of dollars, prison space, court resources, and police offers used to enforce prohibition?

I think the answer is a resounding no.

I would like the people who are for prohibition to step forth and justify those costs.

Again, if marijuana prohibition was free and had no negative financial impact on society (other than the prohibition of marijuana), my plea for legalization would be more difficult. But because prohibition costs us SO MUCH in a time of deep deficits, I think those who want it to stay legal must justify why.

You are magnifying the costs of prohibition. When someone is arrested for shoplifting and found to be in possession of marijuana, is this a marijuana offense? I wish I had a nickle for every defendant who told me they were arrested because they had a joint on them. Then I find out that although there is a charge of possession, they were really arrested for three armed robberies. If you are keeping statistics for purposes of legalization you will only record arrest for a single joint.

 

[KevinWestern]

Legalize it all and let them use themselved to death. Just don't burden others with the medical care.

Well, again, you're for legalization so there's really no argument here.

Also, I think that any incremental burden that results from medical care will be VASTLY offset by the costs we save from not having to pay for (1) the millions of prisoners (that's food, shelter, medical, ect) in jail right now for marijuana, (2) the thousands of resources (cops, courts, Fed Drug agents) that are dedicated to policing pot, (3) new revenue streams that result from marijuana being legally marketed and produced in US vs Mexico.

If you want to talk costs, legalization is a no-brainer.

 

[KevinWestern]

Pot makes SOME people more relaxed. Pot also skrockets the heart rate and leads to heart attack and stroke. Take you chance which one are you.

I've known MANY heart attack and stroke victims from marijuana use. Now if you really think marijuana does not impair cognitive functioning you might be too high to accept that it really does. Not only during use, but for at least a day after use.

The Effects of Marijuana on Cognitive Functioning

Hi Katz, the article says that although marijuana can affect short term memory, it likely does not impact the intelligibility of the user (see conclusion).

Either way, yes, Marijuana has effects on its users, but enough to justify the billions of dollars, prison space, court resources, and police offers used to enforce prohibition?

I think the answer is a resounding no.

I would like the people who are for prohibition to step forth and justify those costs.

Again, if marijuana prohibition was free and had no negative financial impact on society (other than the prohibition of marijuana), my plea for legalization would be more difficult. But because prohibition costs us SO MUCH in a time of deep deficits, I think those who want it to stay legal must justify why.

You are magnifying the costs of prohibition. When someone is arrested for shoplifting and found to be in possession of marijuana, is this a marijuana offense? I wish I had a nickle for every defendant who told me they were arrested because they had a joint on them. Then I find out that although there is a charge of possession, they were really arrested for three armed robberies. If you are keeping statistics for purposes of legalization you will only record arrest for a single joint.

Marijuana prohibition costs us a lot of money. Even if a person gets caught shoplifting and it's found they have marijuana on them, it still counts as extra charges, extra time (on whatever sentence they get), and extra paperwork. That extra year someone gets for "possession" is one full year that we have to pay for that person's food, clothing, housing, ect.

Too, we have entire Federal agencies that dedicate large swaths of time tracking down marijuana dealers, sources, ect, specifically.

Finally, if Marijuana is legalized, think about how much value will be added to our economy via the brand new industry that would be created? Instead of the Cartels keeping all of the revenues, imagine all of the US shipping companies, all of the US marketing companies, all of the US stores, ect that would stand to gain real value from the change in law.

Currently, the Cartels make the largest sums of money and keep that money within Mexico (we're talking Billions every year); wouldn't you like that to instead remain in the US in the hands of non-violent criminals? I would..

 

[Katzndogz]

Hi Katz, the article says that although marijuana can affect short term memory, it likely does not impact the intelligibility of the user (see conclusion).

Either way, yes, Marijuana has effects on its users, but enough to justify the billions of dollars, prison space, court resources, and police offers used to enforce prohibition?

I think the answer is a resounding no.

I would like the people who are for prohibition to step forth and justify those costs.

Again, if marijuana prohibition was free and had no negative financial impact on society (other than the prohibition of marijuana), my plea for legalization would be more difficult. But because prohibition costs us SO MUCH in a time of deep deficits, I think those who want it to stay legal must justify why.

You are magnifying the costs of prohibition. When someone is arrested for shoplifting and found to be in possession of marijuana, is this a marijuana offense? I wish I had a nickle for every defendant who told me they were arrested because they had a joint on them. Then I find out that although there is a charge of possession, they were really arrested for three armed robberies. If you are keeping statistics for purposes of legalization you will only record arrest for a single joint.

Marijuana prohibition costs us a lot of money. Even if a person gets caught shoplifting and it's found they have marijuana on them, it still counts as extra charges, extra time (on whatever sentence they get), and extra paperwork. That extra year someone gets for "possession" is one full year that we have to pay for that person's food, clothing, housing, ect.

Too, we have entire Federal agencies that dedicate large swaths of time tracking down marijuana dealers, sources, ect, specifically.

Finally, if Marijuana is legalized, think about how much value will be added to our economy via the brand new industry that would be created? Instead of the Cartels keeping all of the revenues, imagine all of the US shipping companies, all of the US marketing companies, all of the US stores, ect that would stand to gain real value from the change in law.

Currently, the Cartels make the largest sums of money and keep that money within Mexico (we're talking Billions every year); wouldn't you like that to instead remain in the US in the hands of non-violent criminals? I would..

Would you say the same thing if it were human trafficking instead of marijuana?

 

[AquaAthena]

Do the costs of drug use outweigh the benefit of legalization?

Look at it this way, the societal costs of alcoholism far, far outweigh the benefits of alcohol consumption. Should we make it better or worse?

The problem is not whether pot should be legal or not. The problem is that so many people have a need to get through the day high.

And I work with one of those. While she is dependable is many ways, her short-term memory loss causes her to make many more mistakes than those who work with her.

Yesterday, after leaving her car for a minute to run back to her house because she forgot something, she came back to her car, with the engine on and found she had locked herself out....

Can this happen to someone who isn't on the good weed? Yes, but these kind of things happen to her on a daily basis. She drives loaded, all the time, too and the other day, while looking, ( but not driving ) for something on her car floor, thoughtlessly opened the driver's side door into oncoming traffic and BAM. Her door was hit but all were safe.

Her pot dependency has been the source of most of her challenges in life. It also alters her personality and brings out a more extroverted person, which is why I think she needs the weed. I know for others, it induces a more solitary state. I like being around her better, when her "high" has worn off and she resumes her more natural personality state of mind. Either way though, she is a wonderful person in most every way.

No, to the legalization of pot.

 

[KevinWestern]

You are magnifying the costs of prohibition. When someone is arrested for shoplifting and found to be in possession of marijuana, is this a marijuana offense? I wish I had a nickle for every defendant who told me they were arrested because they had a joint on them. Then I find out that although there is a charge of possession, they were really arrested for three armed robberies. If you are keeping statistics for purposes of legalization you will only record arrest for a single joint.

Marijuana prohibition costs us a lot of money. Even if a person gets caught shoplifting and it's found they have marijuana on them, it still counts as extra charges, extra time (on whatever sentence they get), and extra paperwork. That extra year someone gets for "possession" is one full year that we have to pay for that person's food, clothing, housing, ect.

Too, we have entire Federal agencies that dedicate large swaths of time tracking down marijuana dealers, sources, ect, specifically.

Finally, if Marijuana is legalized, think about how much value will be added to our economy via the brand new industry that would be created? Instead of the Cartels keeping all of the revenues, imagine all of the US shipping companies, all of the US marketing companies, all of the US stores, ect that would stand to gain real value from the change in law.

Currently, the Cartels make the largest sums of money and keep that money within Mexico (we're talking Billions every year); wouldn't you like that to instead remain in the US in the hands of non-violent criminals? I would..

Would you say the same thing if it were human trafficking instead of marijuana?

Would I want human trafficking to be legal in the US? Of course not, that business model violates basic human rights, whereas marijuana growing/selling does not. What's your point?

 

[Katzndogz]

Someday your friend will cause a traffic accident and someone will end up dead. It won't be her fault, the victim shouldn't have done whatever it was they did. And, when she goes to jail for criminal negligence, when she's prosecuted she will say that she was prosecuted just for smoking a little weed. The criminal act will be completely forgotten and ignored. She will be one of those jailed under unfair and draconian marijuana laws.

A friend of mine, a Judge for the international court at the UN has been all over the world, in every country, who explained what's going on. For whatever reason, a large number of people feel that their lives are so incomplete that they have to get high. The father could be out playing ball with his son, but he would rather get high. A mother accepts her daughter's abusive boyfriend because he will get high with her and it makes mom feel young. That's where the problem is. Drugs have always been available and they will always be available in some form. The difference today is that we have a population of unusually selfish and hopeless people who will sacrifice anything if it leads to getting high. They get no satisfaction from their jobs, their families, their communities. The only satisfaction they get in life is when they are high and that is where the problem is. That's what makes drugs so intractable today.

In Yemen khat is killing the country.
Is Yemen Chewing Itself to Death? - TIME

"You sit up discussing all your problems and think you've solved everything, but in fact you haven't done anything in the last four hours, because you've just been chewing khat and all your problems actually got worse," says Adel al-Shujaa, a professor of political science at Sana'a University and the head of the Yemen Without Khat Association. Plus, he says, "all the decisions you've made are bad because you've made them while on khat."

Portugal decriminalized drugs and that was a failure. Decriminalisation Of Drugs In Portugal Was Not A Success, Says Dr Manuel Pinto Coelho

Why would legalization work in Amsterdam and not in Yemen? In Amsterdam the brothels and cannibis shops are controlled by organized crime. Proponents in the US think, in some sort of drug delusion that legalization will stop the money going to the cartels when it obviously won't. It will work the same way it does in Amsterdam. The control and money will flow straight to the cartels.

Tackling organized crime in the Amsterdam Red Light District | Amsterdam Gangland

Organized crime is firmly embedded in the Amsterdam Red Light District, which means, for example, that they have a firm grip on the prostitution sector. Human trafficking, exploitation and forced prostitution are common. Also there is a growing nexus of organized crime with the backdoor activities of coffee shops. In order to tackle these structural problems a continuation of close cooperation between government agencies is needed. This is the key recommendation in the final report of the Emergo Project that was presented to Minister of Security and Justice Opstelten and Amsterdam Mayor Van der Laan.

So we will take all these solutions that have been proven not to work and apply them in the United States. All because we have a population that wants to get high more than anything else in the world.

 

[slackjawed]

While I would like to see marijuana legal, I think a couple things have to happen;
1) Give notice to the other countries we have treaties with that make marijuana smuggling an international crime. Until these treaties are either negated or revised, we would be in violation of existing internatiuonal treaties to legalize marijuana. Might not sound like a big deal, but broken treaties can affect our credit rating, credibility and could conceivably cause other countries to issue trade sanctions (far fetched extreme case)against the usa.

2) Marijuana must be rescheduled to a class 3 or 4 drug by our federal government. Until this is done there is no chance of legalization. The "medical marijuana" laws should have directed their energy to this end. The medical marijuana crowd didn't work to accomplish this, without rescheduling marijuana to at least a class 3 drug, the real doctors can't and won't prescribe it, even if they believe it will help their patient. If marijuana was rescheduled to a class 3 drug you wouldn't need dispenseries, it would be available in the local pharmacy just like it was in the early 1900's in the USA. The entire 'medical marijuana' movement is nothing more than a dishonest attempt to legalize marijuana through a perceived backdoor. It ain't working.

You want marijuana legal like I do, work to get it reclassified by the feds as a class 4 drug like alcohol. there is no reason it shouldn't be. Part of this effort must be addressing the international treaties that deal with marijuana.

Too many people who claim to know how our government works seem to think that if they can get a referendum and the voters vote for legalization, that it would over rule constitutional law and international law. It doesn't work that way. You could easily get a majority of voters to vote yes on a referendum to execute child molesters without a trial, and it would still be illegal under US law.
That's the beauty of our constitutional republic, the rest of the population cannot be forced to do anything by a 'tyrannical majority'.
If we want marijuana legal, we must grow up and work within the existing mechanisms of the law, anything else just looks like a bunch of children stamping their feet in a temper tantrum.

 

[Katzndogz]

Real doctors won't prescribe marijuana because it is harmful and does not help anyone. I know people that take marijuana for medical reasons. Each and every one of them was told by their doctor that he or she would not continue to treat them if they continued to use pot. One of my friends, her son actually, just gave up treatment in favor of pot. The other, an older woman, goes to a free clinic where they don't care. She hasn't got long to live anyway. She just won't have as long to live.

The underlying cause of marijuana legalization is a population that is firmly convinced that their reason for living is to get high. Smoke a little pot and forget all about it. Address that and we don't have pot to think about at all.

 

[slackjawed]

Katz, my own experience is that marijuana erases the "pain memory". When I got sick I hadn't touched marijuana for over 30 years. I do have pain, which at times is horrible. If I take a pain pill, that's all I do. I can't read, can't go outside and walk around or anything. When I wake up I feel 'hungover' from the oxycotin or flexeral or whatever.('scuse my spelling') If i smoke a pipe when I hurt, I still hurt, but there is no hangover the next day, and my body isn't all stiff and sore from the previous day's pain. When I have pain, I unconsiously 'tighten up', even grit my teeth. When I smoke, I don't do that. I am not stiff and sore from that the next day. However; for me marijuana does not stop the pain, you could say it just makes it less unpleasant.
As for side effects, there is no drug that doesn't come with risks. none. Everyone is not the same, and while I see your point about people that wanna be stoned all the time, I actually use marijuana because it helps me stay more alert and I can do more than if I take pharmecutical drugs.

 

[High_Gravity]

It's time the prohibitionists justify why marijuana should remain illegal.

Why is it on them? It's on them because prohibition means some very negative and real consequences that we as a society have to all deal with, namely:

1.) Policing marijuana costs us billions in taxpayer dollars every year (ie police work, courts, prison overhead, feeding prisoners, ect). This money comes out of my paycheck.
2.) Policing marijuana drains on vital resources (cops could be stopping murders, violent crimes, courts could be freed up).
3.) Marijuana prohibition puts millions of non violent people who pose no threat to anyone behind bars every year. This breaks up families, ruins career opportunities.
4.) Marijuana prohibition gives power to the drug cartels and their violent activities. If pot were legal, much of their revenue stream (to buy guns, ect) would be cut.
5.) Marijuana prohibition means that all the money that could be made from private legal enterprise in the US instead remain mostly in Mexico in the hands of criminals (tax free).

Now, I'm open for a discussion (of course), but I think it needs to start with providing the benefits of Marijuana prohibition (specifically), and how those benefits outweigh all of those combined.

These things are currently impacting us each and every day, so I think it's a very important discussion.

If the US was a company, is prohibition worth the cost? I say NO WAY.

Thanks everyone...

Its icky.