Walking away from your mortgage

[RDD_1210]

Hey guys - quick question.


Let's say I have 85% equity on my home. I've fell on hard times, can no longer pay the payments, and default.

I decide to to whats "right" (lol) and move out the day I default.

The bank then takes the home and sells it.

Do you think they are going to refund to me my 85% equity minus their honest and legally entitled to expenses without a fight?


Answer:

NO

How is falling on hard times and intentionally not paying your mortgage to fuck the banks over the same thing?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

So the corporations have lowered the bar and we should all follow suit? Nope. Stop doing business with those companies that treat customers as such and raise the damn bar back up.

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Our CU has a contract with Capital One - so we can get ATM cash without a fee at one of our CU's 3 ATM locations - or at any Capital One ATM nationwide.

Plus its part of a nationwide CU network, and even though there's only local locations of my particular CU, I can make in person withdrawals and deposits at any CU in the network.

The interest paid on savings is lower than a bank(prolly due to the fact they make safer investments), but the fees are almost non-existant. I get charged $3 if I overdraft and money has to be moved from savings - and there's no checking account fee.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Hey guys - quick question.


Let's say I have 85% equity on my home. I've fell on hard times, can no longer pay the payments, and default.

I decide to to whats "right" (lol) and move out the day I default.

The bank then takes the home and sells it.

Do you think they are going to refund to me my 85% equity minus their honest and legally entitled to expenses without a fight?


Answer:

NO

How is falling on hard times and intentionally not paying your mortgage to fuck the banks over the same thing?

What difference would it make to the bank? Zero. Besides almost everyone facing foreclosure today is facing it because they can't afford the payments - so I don't really see your point.

 

[Zoom-boing]

"Gimme Gimme Gimmer' is the attitude of a for profit corporation, because they are interested in only profit. It is beyond me why you think it unfair for people to treat corporations as corporations treat people. Can you explain this double standard?

So you subscribe to the "Two wrongs make a right theory" ?

its not wrong to apply the same standard of ethics to a corporation as they apply to people

Its not even Biblically possible to wrong a corporation. A corporation is an intangible non-human entity - it has no rights under God. It only has rights under the laws that man creates.

So to sum it up, if a corporation has no/low ethics that makes it ok for people to have no/low ethics and you do, therefore, subscribe to the 'two wrongs make a right' theory, as stated by RDD. Got it.

 

[Zoom-boing]

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Our CU has a contract with Capital One - so we can get ATM cash without a fee at one of our CU's 3 ATM locations - or at any Capital One ATM nationwide.

Plus its part of a nationwide CU network, and even though there's only local locations of my particular CU, I can make in person withdrawals and deposits at any CU in the network.

The interest paid on savings is lower than a bank(prolly due to the fact they make safer investments), but the fees are almost non-existant. I get charged $3 if I overdraft and money has to be moved from savings - and there's no checking account fee.

Our bank charges something like $25. I had to put a stop payment on a check that got lost in the mail and they charged me $28. Gaaaa. I'll take low fees over the measly interest any day.

 

[kwc57]

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Our CU has a contract with Capital One - so we can get ATM cash without a fee at one of our CU's 3 ATM locations - or at any Capital One ATM nationwide.

Plus its part of a nationwide CU network, and even though there's only local locations of my particular CU, I can make in person withdrawals and deposits at any CU in the network.

The interest paid on savings is lower than a bank(prolly due to the fact they make safer investments), but the fees are almost non-existant. I get charged $3 if I overdraft and money has to be moved from savings - and there's no checking account fee.

Your actual knowledge of the banking industry is shockingly similar to the media's......non-existent.

 

[MaggieMae]

'Force me out if you can': Homeowners vs. banks - The Week

A growing number of homeowners — particularly those whose properties have plunged in value in recent years — are voluntarily ceasing payments on their mortgages and telling banks, "Force me out if you can," reports The New York Times. These loud-and-proud defaulters are using the money to stabilize their finances and even treat themselves to a few luxuries. Are these freeloaders taking advantage of overwhelmed banks, or did the banks deserve it for "snookering homeowners with loans that got them in over their heads"?

You know, Oklahoma's economy has always run counter to the nation. Back in the early 80's when folks were having a hard time, we were experiencing an oil boom. As the economy turned around in the late 80's, the oil boom went bust. I built my first home in 1984 and by 1990, it was worth half what my original loan was. I still had a job, I could still make payments, I had no desire to go elsewhere, so I stuck it out. Eventually the economy and market turned around and I sold it for a tidy profit in 2001 and moved into a new, nicer and bigger home. My wife and I watched a show recently (can't remember which one, maybe 60 Minutes) where a couple were talking about doing the same thing this article is talking about. We just kept looking at each other with disbelief that poeple could actually have no freaking clue about personal integrity or responsibility. My son is only 17 and has to work to make his truck payment, gas and insurance. He gets it. There are no free rides.

As far as the "evil banks" being at fault........bullshit. My wife and I have both worked in the banking industry for 30 years. Banks are one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US and they don't rip people off. The government has forced banks to make questionable loans to people who can't afford them and then make the banks out to be bad guys. Just because the government makes a bank offer loans to people who can't afford them does not absolve people from personal responsibility. If you make $30,000 per year, you can't afford a $200.000 house. It ain't rocket surgery!!!

Two points:

When you experienced your financial trouble, you still had your job. A lot of people in foreclosure now have lost their jobs because of the economy. Your son also has a job. Unemployment for teenagers is at an all-time high this year.

The "banks" you speak of in your personal story are probably community banks, which do not operate by the same set of rules as the investment banks that screwed their investors and most Americans when they realized they did not have the assets to back up their billions in bogus mortgage security packages. They are NOT insured by the FDIC, for example, and they do NOT have to prove liquidity to continue to operate. Correcting that (tantamount to returning to the Glass Steagall Act) is what the current financial reform bill is all about.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Our CU has a contract with Capital One - so we can get ATM cash without a fee at one of our CU's 3 ATM locations - or at any Capital One ATM nationwide.

Plus its part of a nationwide CU network, and even though there's only local locations of my particular CU, I can make in person withdrawals and deposits at any CU in the network.

The interest paid on savings is lower than a bank(prolly due to the fact they make safer investments), but the fees are almost non-existant. I get charged $3 if I overdraft and money has to be moved from savings - and there's no checking account fee.

Your actual knowledge of the banking industry is shockingly similar to the media's......non-existent.

Hey thanks for being a complete stuck up douchebag, you've surely shown your best colors, but I'm pretty sure I know what I get with my my own credit union. Now go be a douche elsewhere.

 

[The T]

'Force me out if you can': Homeowners vs. banks - The Week

A growing number of homeowners — particularly those whose properties have plunged in value in recent years — are voluntarily ceasing payments on their mortgages and telling banks, "Force me out if you can," reports The New York Times. These loud-and-proud defaulters are using the money to stabilize their finances and even treat themselves to a few luxuries. Are these freeloaders taking advantage of overwhelmed banks, or did the banks deserve it for "snookering homeowners with loans that got them in over their heads"?

No. They didn't 'deserve it' to a point. The Government forced them to or else. Weilding power that rightfully isn't theirs.

The Government created this...period. This is a result and a side topic of the real issue at hand.

 

[boedicca]

If someone has the ability to pay and just doesn't because he's buying time (and cash flow), it most certainly IS wrong.

The article is about people "voluntarily" ceasing payments just because the value of their homes have fallen. They have the ability to pay.

WhinyManTuba is defending their behavior as some kind of crusade against The Man.

 

[RDD_1210]

Hey guys - quick question.


Let's say I have 85% equity on my home. I've fell on hard times, can no longer pay the payments, and default.

I decide to to whats "right" (lol) and move out the day I default.

The bank then takes the home and sells it.

Do you think they are going to refund to me my 85% equity minus their honest and legally entitled to expenses without a fight?


Answer:

NO

How is falling on hard times and intentionally not paying your mortgage to fuck the banks over the same thing?

What difference would it make to the bank? Zero. Besides almost everyone facing foreclosure today is facing it because they can't afford the payments - so I don't really see your point.

And there you go again. You're talking about most people, WHICH I AGREE with. Are you that dense? Is this article about Most people?.....

This article is about people choosing to not pay AND going out and buying luxury items that they don't need. That is what I have a problem with and what you ignore everytime I bring it up. It's pretty convenient you fail to acknowledge that everytime I mention it.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The government has forced banks to make questionable loans to people who can't afford them...

No it hasn't. The CRA required banks make loans to minorities and low income people - not to people with bad credit. And it didn't even apply to the big investment banks that failed and made the same risky investments.

 

[MaggieMae]

If that's your only response to what I pointed out as being your ridiculously flawed logic, I'll take it as you're done with this thread and don't have anything else meaningful to contribute.

Not you or a a single one of you would move out the day that you defaulted on a mortgage - and any of you that claim you would are lying.

I would never default on my mortgage. I bought a house that cost far below what I could afford, saved money, and have plenty to cover the mortgage if I have a spell of unemployment. So don't accuse me of ever acting according to the poor ethical standards you follow.

Patting yourself on the back does little to comfort those who haven't had the same opportunities. It's truly wonderful when people are set in their lifestyles and don't ever have to worry about the next crisis, but a helluva lot of people are NOT in the same boat, so assuming they are or even should be (by some miracle?) is ludicrous.

 

[boedicca]

The government has forced banks to make questionable loans to people who can't afford them...

No it hasn't. The CRA required banks make loans to minorities and low income people - not to people with bad credit. And it didn't even apply to the big investment banks that failed and made the same risky investments.

Wrong. It required lending in low and moderate income areas.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The government has forced banks to make questionable loans to people who can't afford them...

No it hasn't. The CRA required banks make loans to minorities and low income people - not to people with bad credit. And it didn't even apply to the big investment banks that failed and made the same risky investments.

Wrong. It required lending in low and moderate income areas.

But it didn't require banks make loans to people with bad credit or require them to make loans that were way too big for the persons income.

Are you seriously so classist as to suggest that there are no low or middle income people that are capable of paying a house note that's proportionate to their income?

 

[WillowTree]

obie wan put "i'm entitled" in the kool aid,, with a healthy dose of "demonize" and all the DUmmies drank the brew. buy a house you cannot afford, refuse to pay for it, demand to live in it.. yep... that sure as hell sounds like a demonRat to me.

 

[MaggieMae]

I wonder how much my house is worth. I purchased in July 2005.

A new single-wide home owner and happy newlywed on the same day!!

Bravo X...

Mr. and Mrs. Sinatra + "Killer." How sweet. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MaggieMae]

So the corporations have lowered the bar and we should all follow suit? Nope. Stop doing business with those companies that treat customers as such and raise the damn bar back up.

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Point of sale fees are those charged by the merchant, not the bank. To avoid that, when you use your debit card, tell the cashier to run it as a credit, not a debit and they can't charge the fee. Credit union banks usually don't have ATMs of their own. I've only used one on rare occasions anyway, so that's not a problem for me.

I also meant to add that credit unions used to be able to only service members who worked for specific companies or state offices, but that's no longer the case. They are set up to service local residents of all stripes these days.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.

Point of sale fees are those charged by the merchant, not the bank. To avoid that, when you use your debit card, tell the cashier to run it as a credit, not a debit and they can't charge the fee. Credit union banks usually don't have ATMs of their own. I've only used one on rare occasions anyway, so that's not a problem for me.

I also meant to add that credit unions used to be able to only service members who worked for specific companies or state offices, but that's no longer the case. They are set up to service local residents of all stripes these days.

They still have some sort of specificity. For instance - you have to live in the new orleans greater area to use my CU. Though that's hardly a meaningful limitation considering their only locations are in the GNO area.

 

[MaggieMae]

obie wan put "i'm entitled" in the kool aid,, with a healthy dose of "demonize" and all the DUmmies drank the brew. buy a house you cannot afford, refuse to pay for it, demand to live in it.. yep... that sure as hell sounds like a demonRat to me.

Who is obi wan, Willow? You gonna make me wait for an answer again?