Walking away from your mortgage

[RDD_1210]

If they took advantage of the situation, they've saved up cash.
.
Renting will not be impossible. A sufficient amount of advance rent or large cash deposit can convince most reasonable landlords.

Most people facing immediate eviction don't have the luxury of thinking far ahead. Its more to do with keeping a roof over your head for tonight. If I've got a family and my only alternative is to go to the homeless shelter or the streets, I'm staying in the house.

Seriously dude? You say most people facing eviction don't have the luxury of thinking that far ahead. But you also said...they could have saved up cash to get a new place to live if they took advantage of the situation. Well if they're not thinking in advance, how do they have cash saved up?

And I agree, if it's between the streets and staying in the house, I'm staying in the house as long as possible. But that doesn't mean I'm going out and buying frivolous luxury goods. That's the problem I have with these people, yet you seem to gloss over.

I don't care what you would or wouldn't do.

If that's your only response to what I pointed out as being your ridiculously flawed logic, I'll take it as you're done with this thread and don't have anything else meaningful to contribute.

 

[kwc57]

'Force me out if you can': Homeowners vs. banks - The Week

A growing number of homeowners — particularly those whose properties have plunged in value in recent years — are voluntarily ceasing payments on their mortgages and telling banks, "Force me out if you can," reports The New York Times. These loud-and-proud defaulters are using the money to stabilize their finances and even treat themselves to a few luxuries. Are these freeloaders taking advantage of overwhelmed banks, or did the banks deserve it for "snookering homeowners with loans that got them in over their heads"?

You know, Oklahoma's economy has always run counter to the nation. Back in the early 80's when folks were having a hard time, we were experiencing an oil boom. As the economy turned around in the late 80's, the oil boom went bust. I built my first home in 1984 and by 1990, it was worth half what my original loan was. I still had a job, I could still make payments, I had no desire to go elsewhere, so I stuck it out. Eventually the economy and market turned around and I sold it for a tidy profit in 2001 and moved into a new, nicer and bigger home. My wife and I watched a show recently (can't remember which one, maybe 60 Minutes) where a couple were talking about doing the same thing this article is talking about. We just kept looking at each other with disbelief that poeple could actually have no freaking clue about personal integrity or responsibility. My son is only 17 and has to work to make his truck payment, gas and insurance. He gets it. There are no free rides.

As far as the "evil banks" being at fault........bullshit. My wife and I have both worked in the banking industry for 30 years. Banks are one of the most heavily regulated industries in the US and they don't rip people off. The government has forced banks to make questionable loans to people who can't afford them and then make the banks out to be bad guys. Just because the government makes a bank offer loans to people who can't afford them does not absolve people from personal responsibility. If you make $30,000 per year, you can't afford a $200.000 house. It ain't rocket surgery!!!

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Seriously dude? You say most people facing eviction don't have the luxury of thinking that far ahead. But you also said...they could have saved up cash to get a new place to live if they took advantage of the situation. Well if they're not thinking in advance, how do they have cash saved up?

And I agree, if it's between the streets and staying in the house, I'm staying in the house as long as possible. But that doesn't mean I'm going out and buying frivolous luxury goods. That's the problem I have with these people, yet you seem to gloss over.

I don't care what you would or wouldn't do.

If that's your only response to what I pointed out as being your ridiculously flawed logic, I'll take it as you're done with this thread and don't have anything else meaningful to contribute.

Not you or a a single one of you would move out the day that you defaulted on a mortgage - and any of you that claim you would are lying.

 

[boedicca]

Punishing someone for a crime they committed is not a second wrong, bub.

Yeah tell that to the children of convicted wrongdoers who wind up becoming foster children.

So it's better for children to be raised by criminals? LOL!!!!

Why do you think corporations deserve special treatment?

I don't. I just don't believe that the doing business with a corporation gives one the moral imperative to cheat and defraud said corporation.

 

[MaggieMae]

^^^ The bankruptcy of moral relativism on parade.


And that, boys and girls, in a nutshell is why the country (and the world) is in the mess it is today.

I don't think very many Americans had that mindset even as late 20 years ago. Our "moral" bankruptcy has been slowly creeping upon us for many years, but it seems to have made a mad dash to the finish line only in recent years. (And I'm not talking about just the mortgage situation.)

 

[boedicca]

I don't care what you would or wouldn't do.

If that's your only response to what I pointed out as being your ridiculously flawed logic, I'll take it as you're done with this thread and don't have anything else meaningful to contribute.

Not you or a a single one of you would move out the day that you defaulted on a mortgage - and any of you that claim you would are lying.

I would never default on my mortgage. I bought a house that cost far below what I could afford, saved money, and have plenty to cover the mortgage if I have a spell of unemployment. So don't accuse me of ever acting according to the poor ethical standards you follow.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I would never default on my mortgage. I bought a house that cost far below what I could afford, saved money, and have plenty to cover the mortgage if I have a spell of unemployment. So don't accuse me of ever acting according to the poor ethical standards you follow.

Whatever Mr. SelfRighteousBastard.

 

[RDD_1210]

I don't care what you would or wouldn't do.

If that's your only response to what I pointed out as being your ridiculously flawed logic, I'll take it as you're done with this thread and don't have anything else meaningful to contribute.

Not you or a a single one of you would move out the day that you defaulted on a mortgage - and any of you that claim you would are lying.

Big bold letters about something that I said I AGREE with you about, still doesn't address my original point to you, keep ignoring it though. It's cool.

Besides in the long run, the ones who really suffer here are the homeowners who in the end will be evicted, will have f*cked up credit and will have a hard time getting a loan or approved for anything for a LOOONG time.

The banks will take possession of the house and will eventually sell it off to get recoup as much of their money as possible. So who's hurting who here?

 

[kwc57]

As long as they comply with any orders issued from a judge I fail to see any moral wrongdoing.

Of course you don't, hun.

Can you please explain why it is not fair for people to treat the banks as they have treated people? Why this double standard?

The bank lent you money that you contractually agreed to pay back with interest after meeting the qualifications for said loan. You sought the loan from them, they didn't put a gun to your head. The bank has a butt load of government regulations they have to follow to ensure you are being treated fairly. How exactly was the bank "treating you"? This is like asking someone to hit you in the head with a hammer and then complaining because it left a mark.

 

[boedicca]

I would never default on my mortgage. I bought a house that cost far below what I could afford, saved money, and have plenty to cover the mortgage if I have a spell of unemployment. So don't accuse me of ever acting according to the poor ethical standards you follow.

Whatever Mr. SelfRighteousBastard.

You really are disgusting.

I'm a gal, btw. You are is unperceptive as you are unethical and STOOOPID.

 

[MaggieMae]

This is so ridiculous. Does anyone even have the desire to be honest nowadays? And we wonder why corruption is rampant.

I fail to see the dishonesty. Are they attempting to conceal the fact they do not intend to pay on the note? Isn't telling the bank you're not going to pay actually called "honesty" ?


What should these people do? Go back in time and sign a different note? Load up the kids into the minivan and sell it on the way to the homeless shelter? Sorry but if I've got a family in this situation I'm not going to give a shit about a bank - they don't give a shit about me, so why not return the favor?

The banks are their own worst enemies in some of these cases. Both the banks and the homeowner made bad investments. However, the banks are typically unwilling to renegotiate the terms of the loan. If the homeowner could say, "look, I owe $300,000 on a house worth $250,000.....lets tear up the note, renegotiate the length and both accept some of the loss......otherwise, I will walk away"

And they should. By the time a home has reached foreclosure status, the homeowner has already lost his/her credit rating. I even heard CNN/HNN's Clark Howard (the people's financial guru) say that very thing to someone in a similar circumstance. "Just walk away." He also has told a 70-year old woman agonizing over keeping up minimum payments on her credit cards, while those banks continued to raise her interest and thus her monthly payments, to just stop paying the cards. Howard said to offer them a compromise, and if they won't accept, simply tell them "Take it or leave it...I just won't pay anything at all from this time forward."

 

[SpidermanTuba]

So it's better for children to be raised by criminals? LOL!!!!

I dunno, why don't you ask someone who was raised in the foster system because their parent or parents went to prison, they could better answer that question.

[

Why do you think corporations deserve special treatment?

I don't. I just don't believe that the doing business with a corporation gives one the moral imperative to cheat and defraud said corporation.

It isn't fraud to live in a house past the date you defaulted on the mortgage.
Its breach of contract. That's not fraud.

You and I apparently have different definitions of what words mean. You use the ones you make up as you go along, I use the ones found in the dictionary.

 

[MaggieMae]

Speaks volumes about you.

Corporations do not operate with regard to moral standards. They operate only with profit motive. Please explain why their customers should not return that in kind.

So the corporations have lowered the bar and we should all follow suit? Nope. Stop doing business with those companies that treat customers as such and raise the damn bar back up.

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

 

[boedicca]

It isn't fraud to live in a house past the date you defaulted on the mortgage.
Its breach of contract. That's not fraud.

You and I apparently have different definitions of what words mean. You use the ones you make up as you go along, I use the ones found in the dictionary.

It's not surprising that you engage in Clintonian "it depends upon what the meaning of ethics is" in your responses.

When contracts cease to mean anything, then our ability to enage in and rely upon them is seriously damaged. Yes, a few people out of many may con the system from time to time and get away with it. When the bulk of people to do, it collapses. This is what your Ethics Deficient Morality leads to.

 

[Sinatra]

I wonder how much my house is worth. I purchased in July 2005.

A new single-wide home owner and happy newlywed on the same day!!

Bravo X...

 

[MaggieMae]

It's unethical if they have the ability to pay.

I hope they don't have children - what an awful example for them to see their parents engaged in what is essentially fraud.

Its not fraud, nor is it "essentially" fraud.

Yes it is.

They have the ability to pay, and are refusing to do so.

The fact that you defend such actions says volumes, none of it positive, regarding the content of your character.

If someone has the ability to pay and just doesn't because he's buying time (and cash flow), it most certainly IS wrong. However, I tend to think that the majority of folks caught in the ongoing foreclosure tragedy are victims of their own mistaken belief that they could become homeowners (the American dream) and somehow manage that expense as well as all other living expenses. Actually, it probably was a struggle for some but a devastation if a medical crisis hit them or one of the breadwinners lost a job.

There are, however, people who are such lowlifes that they will do the same thing with rental properties: Manage to get into a rental with absolutely no intention of paying a dime in rent, knowing all along that it takes at least six months for a legal eviction. And then they just stuff all their crap into garbage bags, get a whole lot of people to lie about their history to some state housing agency or even a rental agent who doesn't carefully check references, and move on to the next rental unit. This kind of pond scum exists, but I don't think they make up the majority of the type of people we're talking about here.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm going to have to agree that people who intentionally don't pay their mortgage AND then go and buy luxury items get no sympathy from me.

What do they need your sympathy for? They have a roof over their head. Maybe they're trying to avoid needing your sympathy.


Banks fuck people all the time and force the people to lawyer up to undo the fucking. It is in no way wrong or immoral to to the same thing to a bank.

This is maybe the best example of a liberal, gimme gimme gimme attitude that could be shown.

You liberals must be pretty proud of spidey and his beliefs of self responsibility.

I'm not supporting him on this, but then I'm not a liberal. See? It makes no sense to dump everyone into one neat little category.

 

[MaggieMae]

What do they need your sympathy for? They have a roof over their head. Maybe they're trying to avoid needing your sympathy.


Banks fuck people all the time and force the people to lawyer up to undo the fucking. It is in no way wrong or immoral to to the same thing to a bank.

This is maybe the best example of a liberal, gimme gimme gimme attitude that could be shown.

You liberals must be pretty proud of spidey and his beliefs of self responsibility.

Enough with the labels. I'm just as "liberal" as anyone here and I don't agree with what these people are doing either. Life isn't always about labels.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Hey guys - quick question.


Let's say I have 85% equity on my home. I've fell on hard times, can no longer pay the payments, and default.

I decide to to whats "right" (lol) and move out the day I default.

The bank then takes the home and sells it.

Do you think they are going to refund to me my 85% equity minus their honest and legally entitled to expenses without a fight?


Answer:

NO

 

[Zoom-boing]

Corporations do not operate with regard to moral standards. They operate only with profit motive. Please explain why their customers should not return that in kind.

So the corporations have lowered the bar and we should all follow suit? Nope. Stop doing business with those companies that treat customers as such and raise the damn bar back up.

The only "nice" banks these days are local credit unions. I've transferred all my debt over to one. It's costing me less in interest payments, and when I have a question, somebody actually answers the phone and provides the correct information I'm seeking. I walk in and they know me by my first name.

Thanks for this info. Our local bank was just taken over - or bought out - by First Niagra. I've never even heard of them and when I had some questions my local bank people had no idea so I got to call some 1-800 number. They were very helpful and all but . . . I like the idea of my bank knowing me. If you're with a local CU, do you just stick with their ATM or pay a fee to use others? Our bank does have 2 or 3 locations near us so we can utilize their ATM and avoid a fee. I'm waiting for them to start charging a fee for POS purchases. I'll probably bag ATM POS purchases at that point and stick with cash or credit.