Wait a minute: The guns in Fast and Furious didn't originate from the government?

[SniperFire]

You're not exactly being consistent here. The Cheney vs. District Courts broadened Executive Priviledge to include administration officials. And administration officials engaged in making policy.

That's extremely broad.

If you are saying that the case should be reversed..and Cheney, Bush and company hauled in to turn their documentation concerning meetings with energy officials..

You'd be on firmer ground.

This is what you guys lack in your arguments..consistency and an understanding about precedence.

Horseshit, as we have come to expect from you.

;The presence of the Vice President as a party in the case changed the usual mandamus analysis because the discovery order threatened “substantial intrusions on the process by which those in closest operational proximity to the President advise the President.”

Cheney v. United States District Court

Is English that hard for you?

"Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious."

- Eric Holder

 

[Darkwind]

Horseshit, as we have come to expect from you.

;The presence of the Vice President as a party in the case changed the usual mandamus analysis because the discovery order threatened “substantial intrusions on the process by which those in closest operational proximity to the President advise the President.”

Cheney v. United States District Court

Is English that hard for you?

"Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious."

- Eric Holder

Just helping out....

 

[SniperFire]

It isn't like we can use crayon for you over the internet, Swallow.

Big red letters will have to do!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is English that hard for you?

"Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious."

- Eric Holder

Just helping out....

Let me do my part

[/quote]


"Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious."

- Eric Holder

 

[CaféAuLait]

Where, exactly?

Lots of innuendo..and not much substance.

Issa, recently admitted he has no evidence to connect either Holder or Obama to the practice.

Which by the way..was PUT INTO PLACE BY BUSH ADMINISTRATION HOLDOVERS.

Fast and the Furious was not Bush's operation and Holder even said so. AND it was never said Obam knew about it-- UNTIL he invoked executive privilege.

NOT TRUE!

Issa’s position on Holder’s knowledge of the tactics used is a reversal of what he claimed when he began his investigation last year, when he said the tactics went “all the way to the very top.”

Holder Contempt: Issa No Longer Suspicious AG Knew Fast And Furious Gunwalking | TPMMuckraker

Project Gunrunner: Obama Administration's Stonewalling Contradicts Claims of Transparent Gov't - YouTube

Obama envokes executive privilege:

Which means what? Sounds like the TOP to me.

 

[Darkwind]

"Any instance of so-called gunwalking is unacceptable. Regrettably, this tactic was used as part of Fast and Furious."

- Eric Holder[/QUOTE]

Here, let Me Isolate the information in the hopes that it will sink in better...

 

[Google]

They didn't "sanction" shit.

They watched it go down.

These sales go on daily. 85% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.

That's NOT because of Fast and Furious.

We had that very same problem in NYC. Most illegal guns that wound up here started out in Virginia.

They watched it go down? They wiretapped the transactions for what reason? Did they prosecute any of the gun store owners?

Once again, you are only demonstrating that you don't know any of the facts of this issue, besides of course what you gleamed from MSNBC.

 

[Sallow]

Yeah...it seems that it was Holder that put a stop to a practice put into place by PEOPLE HIRED BY GEORGE W. BUSH's ADMINISTRATION.

In other words..he did the right thing.

And for it...the Criminal Darrell Issa..is raking him over the coals.

So what you have hear is an instance where ATF agents watched illegal sales, went to the prosecutors in Arizona..who in turn, did nothing.

Holder stopped that practice.

So NOW..the gun sellers can sell guns to guys who will take them to Mexico..in peace.

Happy?

 

[Sallow]

They watched it go down? They wiretapped the transactions for what reason? Did they prosecute any of the gun store owners?

Once again, you are only demonstrating that you don't know any of the facts of this issue, besides of course what you gleamed from MSNBC.

The prosecutors in Arizona refused to prosecute anyone.

But you knew that.

 

[Darkwind]

Yeah...it seems that it was Holder that put a stop to a practice put into place by PEOPLE HIRED BY GEORGE W. BUSH's ADMINISTRATION.

In other words..he did the right thing.

And for it...the Criminal Darrell Issa..is raking him over the coals.

So what you have hear is an instance where ATF agents watched illegal sales, went to the prosecutors in Arizona..who in turn, did nothing.

Holder stopped that practice.

So NOW..the gun sellers can sell guns to guys who will take them to Mexico..in peace.

Happy?

No...

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

 

[Google]

The prosecutors in Arizona refused to prosecute anyone.

But you knew that.

The illegal sale of assault weapons that were sanctioned in Operation Fast and Furious happened in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, but you did not know that did you.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Holy shit.

All they were doing..it seems, was MONITORING gun sales.

It wasn't even like Wide Reciever..where the ATF actually had the guns to begin with.

“There was no effort to get more guns to the straw purchasers,” Eban said in an interview with host Al Sharpton, summarizing her findings. “The ATF agents in question did everything that they could to seize guns, and basically prosecutors determined that they didn’t have grounds under the laws as written to seize most of the guns that wound up flowing ultimately to criminals; that is a far cry from guns being walked.”
Fortune report complicates Fast and Furious story. Writer: 'There was no effort to get more guns to the straw purchasers' - Lean Forward

So basically..they just watched the sales..went to prosecutors in Arizona to arrest these folks..and the prosecutors refused.

THAT'S THE BIG SCANDAL?

Well it is, sorta, because it's the gun nuts that kept the ATF from stopping the gun walking.

An interview with Al Sharpton, you take this seriously? My gay jokes are more serious.
Yeah they were tracking guns, but had no tracking tags.....uh either they're incredibly stupid or they weren't doing it to track guns. It might also help to let the Mexicans in on the ploy. Are democrats racist and dont trust Mexicans?

 

[whitehall]

The Fortune magazine article is based on Ms. Eban's opinion. Hardly anyone in the administration denies the allegations that the ATF allowed the guns to be shipped to Mexico. As a matter of fact even Obama spokespeople and democrats acknowledge that the program was a complete and abject failure and some ATF agents were fired. The question remains why the A.G. refuses to comply with the congressional subpoena as he is required to by law.

 

[Google]

Yeah...it seems that it was Holder that put a stop to a practice put into place by PEOPLE HIRED BY GEORGE W. BUSH's ADMINISTRATION.

In other words..he did the right thing.

And for it...the Criminal Darrell Issa..is raking him over the coals.

So what you have hear is an instance where ATF agents watched illegal sales, went to the prosecutors in Arizona..who in turn, did nothing.

Holder stopped that practice.

So NOW..the gun sellers can sell guns to guys who will take them to Mexico..in peace.

Happy?

When did Wide Receiver End and Fast and Furious begin?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Yeah...it seems that it was Holder that put a stop to a practice put into place by PEOPLE HIRED BY GEORGE W. BUSH's ADMINISTRATION.

In other words..he did the right thing.

And for it...the Criminal Darrell Issa..is raking him over the coals.

So what you have hear is an instance where ATF agents watched illegal sales, went to the prosecutors in Arizona..who in turn, did nothing.

Holder stopped that practice.

So NOW..the gun sellers can sell guns to guys who will take them to Mexico..in peace.

Happy?

First of all when did criminal become a dirty word to liberals? Second I thought you guys were for rehabilitation, I guess not. Are liberals ever consistant on anything, or does every issue depend on the person's politics(rich are bad, except liberal rich like Soros, John Wayne Gacy was good, Ted Bundy bad, it's pathetic seeing you guys willfully commit hypocrisy on EVERY issue)

 

[Missourian]

They didn't "sanction" shit.

They watched it go down.

These sales go on daily. 85% of the guns in Mexico come from the US.

That's NOT because of Fast and Furious.

We had that very same problem in NYC. Most illegal guns that wound up here started out in Virginia.

That 85% number is blatantly false.

The President tried to float that myth already and Factcheck.org quickly debunked it.

"But is it true, as President Obama said, that "[m]ore than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States?"

Government statistics don’t actually support that claim."

FactCheck.org: Counting Mexico's Guns

It's not "debunked".

What it says is the data is unreliable since serial numbers on recovered guns have been removed.

But what isn't removed is that fine American craftsmenship..that just screams "Made in the US".

Not the least bit true.

The actual number is around 12%.

"According to the GAO report, some 30,000 firearms were seized from criminals by Mexican authorities in 2008. Of these 30,000 firearms, information pertaining to 7,200 of them (24 percent) was submitted to the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for tracing. Of these 7,200 guns, only about 4,000 could be traced by the ATF, and of these 4,000, some 3,480 (87 percent) were shown to have come from the United States.

This means that the 87 percent figure relates to the number of weapons submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF that could be successfully traced and not from the total number of weapons seized by Mexican authorities or even from the total number of weapons submitted to the ATF for tracing. In fact, the 3,480 guns pohsitively traced to the United States equals less than 12 percent of the total arms seized in Mexico in 2008 and less than 48 percent of all those submitted by the Mexican government to the ATF for tracing. This means that almost 90 percent of the guns seized in Mexico in 2008 were not traced back to the United States."

Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | Stratfor

 

[M14 Shooter]

Holy shit.

All they were doing..it seems, was MONITORING gun sales.

It wasn't even like Wide Reciever..where the ATF actually had the guns to begin with.

“There was no effort to get more guns to the straw purchasers,” Eban said in an interview with host Al Sharpton, summarizing her findings. “The ATF agents in question did everything that they could to seize guns, and basically prosecutors determined that they didn’t have grounds under the laws as written to seize most of the guns that wound up flowing ultimately to criminals; that is a far cry from guns being walked.”
Fortune report complicates Fast and Furious story. Writer: 'There was no effort to get more guns to the straw purchasers' - Lean Forward

So basically..they just watched the sales..went to prosecutors in Arizona to arrest these folks..and the prosecutors refused.

THAT'S THE BIG SCANDAL?

Well it is, sorta, because it's the gun nuts that kept the ATF from stopping the gun walking.

Congratulations, you have proven what I have said all along--you are completely ignorant.

Still trying to figure out if she's a partisan bigot or a bigoted partisan.

 

[Lakhota]

The Fortune magazine article is based on Ms. Eban's opinion. Hardly anyone in the administration denies the allegations that the ATF allowed the guns to be shipped to Mexico. As a matter of fact even Obama spokespeople and democrats acknowledge that the program was a complete and abject failure and some ATF agents were fired. The question remains why the A.G. refuses to comply with the congressional subpoena as he is required to by law.

1. Because there are "other" ongoing investigations.

2. President Obama invoked Executive Privilege (as Bush did SIX times).

 

[Google]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WVjDEjJUM]Assault Weapons Linked To ATF 'Fast And Furious' Gun Smuggling Found In Arizona Crimes - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Google]

The Fortune magazine article is based on Ms. Eban's opinion. Hardly anyone in the administration denies the allegations that the ATF allowed the guns to be shipped to Mexico. As a matter of fact even Obama spokespeople and democrats acknowledge that the program was a complete and abject failure and some ATF agents were fired. The question remains why the A.G. refuses to comply with the congressional subpoena as he is required to by law.

1. Because there are "other" ongoing investigations.

2. President Obama invoked Executive Privilege (as Bush did SIX times).

Ongoing investigations is not an excuse to not provide documents to a Congressional investigation.