Voter ID's !

[Navy1960]

24th Amendment

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Twenty-fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections
In a 6 to 3 vote, the Court ruled in favor of Ms. Harper. The Court noted that “a state violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution whenever it makes the affluence of the voter or payment of any fee an electoral standard. Voter qualifications have no relation to wealth.”
Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There seems to be a rash of new laws that relate to Voter ID's lately in many states , now while on the surface these laws seem to be aimed at reducing voter fraud which from a statistical level are very low tend to appear aimed more towards a section of the voting public that vote for a single party. That said, if the states that enact these Voter ID Laws charge for the ID's themselves as a means to vote then it would appear they are in violation of the 24th Amendment, however if the ID's are free which as it appears in several states it is the case then in my humble opinion it's not. It would appear though that in the Harper case one could argue that in making a system that is so cumbersome to low income individuals as to prevent them from voting may violate the Equal Protection Clause as well. As a suggestion this issue could be easily solved with a voter registration card that has a person's picture on it, that would be free of charge to anyone who registers to vote.

 

[Vaard]

i fully support requiring an id to vote as long the id is provided for free.......

 

[Navy1960]

Vaard, thats the whole point here, I see nothing wrong with an ID myself as well as long as it's free, so then if that is the case rather than require a limited form of ID like, Drivers License or State ID, it would appear that at some point in the process someone registers to vote and in so doing would be rather simple to issue a voter ID. In some states for example that have passed this, students in Tn. for example cannot use a student ID to vote even though for example a parent has paid for that student to attend that University at great expense. Again, I have no problem with ID's but these states that craft laws that are so egregious that they limit voting by the sheer number of hoops a person has to jump through that it often targets the poor and elderly, those states really call into question the real motive behind these laws.

 

[Vaard]

Vaard, thats the whole point here, I see nothing wrong with an ID myself as well as long as it's free, so then if that is the case rather than require a limited form of ID like, Drivers License or State ID, it would appear that at some point in the process someone registers to vote and in so doing would be rather simple to issue a voter ID. In some states for example that have passed this, students in Tn. for example cannot use a student ID to vote even though for example a parent has paid for that student to attend that University at great expense. Again, I have no problem with ID's but these states that craft laws that are so egregious that they limit voting by the sheer number of hoops a person has to jump through that it often targets the poor and elderly, those states really call into question the real motive behind these laws.

well, you cant use a student id to vote because there is no controls in assuring the id is really that person.... easy to fake, in other words......

yes, i do question the motives of requiring an id, but not making the id free to all who vote......


you either require an id to vote and also allow free ids...... or you dont require an id to vote........

 

[Navy1960]

Easy to fake assumes there is a large problem with voter fruad which there isn't, yes there are a few cases of voter fraud which there will always be and if the institution is an accredited school within a state that accepts taxpayer funding for it's existance or accepts Federal Funds then the ID's that its students hold should be valid enough for those students to vote in elections.

If you do not make the ID's free to all, then you run into an Equal Protection issue.

Personally as I said I don't have an issue with ID's to vote but if the issue were to stop a large problem with voter fruad which it isn't then that would make sense. The bottom line here is that if these states who want such laws really to have any meaning then they should make those ID's free to all who want them.

 

[Vaard]

Easy to fake assumes there is a large problem with voter fruad which there isn't, yes there are a few cases of voter fraud which there will always be and if the institution is an accredited school within a state that accepts taxpayer funding for it's existance or accepts Federal Funds then the ID's that its students hold should be valid enough for those students to vote in elections.

If you do not make the ID's free to all, then you run into an Equal Protection issue.

Personally as I said I don't have an issue with ID's to vote but if the issue were to stop a large problem with voter fruad which it isn't then that would make sense. The bottom line here is that if these states who want such laws really to have any meaning then they should make those ID's free to all who want them.

no, i dont mean easy to fake in that sense.....

i mean, you can enroll in college with any name you want, as long as you are not getting student aid.......

and the only requirement to get a student id is to be enrolled in that school......

so that means it does not meet the level of requirement to be a "valid id"..........

and, yes, i was agreeing with you formthe beginning that if a state is going to require id, it has to make the id free and easily accessable.... i was showing support to your thread, not trying to argue with you.......

 

[Conservative]

i fully support requiring an id to vote as long the id is provided for free.......

And in EVERY SINGLE voter ID law that has been passed since the SCOTUS decision of 2008, there is a provision for a free ID, as well as the provision that provisional ballots can be cast even when the identity of the voter has not been proven, and even when the voter is not listed on the voter rolls.

 

[jillian]

24th Amendment

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
Twenty-fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections
In a 6 to 3 vote, the Court ruled in favor of Ms. Harper. The Court noted that “a state violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution whenever it makes the affluence of the voter or payment of any fee an electoral standard. Voter qualifications have no relation to wealth.”
Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There seems to be a rash of new laws that relate to Voter ID's lately in many states , now while on the surface these laws seem to be aimed at reducing voter fraud which from a statistical level are very low tend to appear aimed more towards a section of the voting public that vote for a single party. That said, if the states that enact these Voter ID Laws charge for the ID's themselves as a means to vote then it would appear they are in violation of the 24th Amendment, however if the ID's are free which as it appears in several states it is the case then in my humble opinion it's not. It would appear though that in the Harper case one could argue that in making a system that is so cumbersome to low income individuals as to prevent them from voting may violate the Equal Protection Clause as well. As a suggestion this issue could be easily solved with a voter registration card that has a person's picture on it, that would be free of charge to anyone who registers to vote.

thank you. i knew that even if i didn't agree with your assessment, your comments would be well-reasoned and thought out. i agree that these new laws not only strike at the low income voter, but would suggest they are specifically intended to. making voter registration difficult is intended to discourage younger voters, as well, since young voters generally register at voter registration drives on on their college campuses and high schools. The Florida law, in particular, is so onerous that the League of Women Voters, a non-partisan group whose mission is assuring participation in the political process regardless of one's affiliation, has stopped registering voters:

TALLAHASSEE — One of the oldest voter-education groups operating in Florida announced Monday it was ceasing its voter-registration efforts and considering a legal challenge to a broad elections bill that Republican lawmakers rushed through the session last week.

The bill, HB 1355, shortened the number of days Floridians could early vote and could make it harder for people who move from one county to another to cast ballots. But it also imposes strict new regulations on third-party voter groups and threatens them with fines if they fail to meet them. That was apparently enough for the Florida League of Women Voters, a non-partisan group that holds candidate debates and sponsors a wide variety of voter-education initiatives, to scrap its plans to sign up voters for the 2012 elections.

“Despite the fact that the League of Women Voters is one of the nation’s most respected civic organizations, with a 91-year history of registering and educating voters, we will be unable to comply with the egregious provisions contained in HB 1355,” said LWV President Deirdre Macnab, of Orange County.

“Not only does the bill make it more difficult for voters to participate in our democracy via a decrease in early voting and new policies regarding address changes at the polls, it also imposes an undue burden on groups such as ours that work to register voters.

“Under the false pretext of reducing ‘fraud,’ Florida’s legislative leaders have instituted a law that will shut down the efforts of groups such as the League, the Boy Scouts, student groups, civic organizations and others who undertake the important task of helping citizens get registered to vote.”

The bill requires third-party voter registration groups such as the League of Women Voters, unions and the NAACP to turn in voter-registration cards within 48 hours or face fines. Voter groups have said that requirement would be difficult to meet if they are registering thousands of voters at a time.

Elections bill prompts League of Women Voters to stop registration – Central Florida Political Pulse – Orlando Sentinel

why is florida doing this? because by far new voters vote democratic... and florida is a swing state... maybe THE swing state... it's the same reason they set up police check points near polling places in 2000.

The Institute for Southern Studies opines that the law is so extreme it could be outcome determinative in the next election:

The 2010 Census revealed that the demographics continue to work in Democrats' favor: Latino voters now make up more than 19 percent of the voting-eligible population. 41 percent of Florida voters are Democrats, compared to 36 percent Republican.

Yet despite these demographic favorables, Florida remains a tight battleground where changing the voting rules could also change the results. Even with the Democratic upsurge in 2008, Obama still won Florida by only just under 205,000 votes. That's well within the scope of voters who will likely be affected by the dramatic voting changes enacted by the state's Republican majority in 2011, which included:

* A shortening of the state's early voting period from 14 days to eight. 4.3 million Florida citizens used early voting in 2008 -- more than 45 percent of them Democrats, compared to just 37 percent Republican.

* A new restriction on voter registration drives which reduces the number of days that a registration form has to be turned in from 10 days to two. If forms are turned in late, the groups responsible face steep fines and penalties -- which caused the venerable League of Women Voters to abandon their voter registration drives in the state. The Brennan Center shows why Democrats will be disproportionately affected:

For instance, Florida’s new law—which places so many new burdens on voter registration drive activity that most groups have discontinued their voter registration activities in the state—will almost certainly hit African American and Hispanic voters hardest. In Florida, U.S. Census Bureau data from the 2004 and 2008 election cycles show that both African-Americans and Hispanics rely more heavily than white voters on community-based voter registration drives; in fact, African-American and Hispanic citizens in Florida are more than twice as likely to register to vote through such drives as white voters.

* Eliminating Sunday as an early voting day -- a measure squarely aimed at "Souls to the Polls" turnout campaigns used by African-American, and to a lesser extent Latino, churches. As the Brennan Center notes:

n the 2008 general election in Florida, 33.2% of those who voted early on the last Sunday before election day were black and 23.6% were Hispanic, whereas blacks constituted 13.4% of all early voters statewide (for all early voting days) and Hispanics constituted 11.6%.

* New restrictions on ex-felon voting: For years, Florida had one of the most restrictive bans on ex-felon voting in the country, which in 2000 led to 600,000 citizens -- disproportionately African-American and Democratic voters -- being kept from voting. Republican Gov. Christie eased clemency laws in 2007, making it easier for tens of thousands of ex-felons who had paid their debt to society to be brought back onto the voting rolls.

But in March 2011, GOP Gov. Rick Scott signed a bill that placed a host of new restrictions on ex-felon voting, including a five-year delay on restoring ex-felon voting rights -- a move that the Brennan Center warns could impact hundreds of thousands of Florida voters.

Put all of the new Florida voting laws together, and could they affect enough voters to make a difference in Florida with its 29 Electoral College votes? Some have criticized the Brennan Center's findings, saying the 5 million figure represents a high-case scenario (although that mostly has to do with voter photo ID and citizenship requirements, which weren't part of the 2011 changes in Florida).

But in a state like Florida -- where victories entail the closest of margins and where Obama is currently neck-and-neck with GOP front-runner Mitt Romney in the polls -- the potential impact is clear.

Could Florida's war on voting change the outcome of 2012? | The Institute for Southern Studies

 

[Navy1960]

A couple of things come to mind here, while most states provide a free ID something comes to mind here and that is the qualifications to get such an ID for the purposes of voting. In any such endevour such as requirements for Birth Certs., Documents, etc. that a person must provide in order to obtain this ID to vote, should they have to pay for it, then it may run afoul of the constitution. In that it would qualify as a poll tax, so while a state may provide Free ID's the process of obating the documents needed to get the ID should they cost the voter, would prove to be a poll tax as well.

Here's an example of the nonsense of these laws,

Texas vot*ers, begin*ning next year, can*not cast a bal*lot with*out one of the fol*low*ing forms of photo iden*ti*fi*ca*tion: a Texas driver’s license; a Texas con*cealed hand*gun license; a U.S. pass*port; cit*i*zen*ship papers; or a mil*i*tary identification card.

Vet*er*ans eli*gi*ble for VA med*ical ben*e*fits receive the VA cards, which include photos.

Vet ID holders cannot vote? | San Antonio Express-News - The Voting News » The Voting News

In Texas, if you are a student at UT or a Vet with a VA Card you cannot use those to vote, however, you can use your concealed handgun license. If the purpose of these laws is to cut down on voter fraud then it would make sense that a person who identifies themselves at the voting place would and should be acceptable. Frankly I find it interesting that a student at a state sponsored school that accepts state and federal tax money and issues ID's to the students who go there , if those ID's are not acceptable then that institution should not be allowed to accept tax dollars or be regulated by the state legislature which it clearly is. Most of these laws serve but one purpose and that is to deny a hard won the privledge to vote to citizens of this great nation, paid for by the blood of many generations of Americans. In so doing they dishonor everyone past and present that have ever served this nation in its defense of that privledge. While the idea of showing an ID to vote I have no issue with, had it been the purpose to give everyone a voter ID to cut down fraud then a persons picture would have been on a voter registration card and ALL forms of ID would have been acceptable, rather than selective ones.