Voter ID's !

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Navy1960, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    24th Amendment

    Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
    Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
    Twenty-fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections
    In a 6 to 3 vote, the Court ruled in favor of Ms. Harper. The Court noted that “a state violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution whenever it makes the affluence of the voter or payment of any fee an electoral standard. Voter qualifications have no relation to wealth.”
    Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There seems to be a rash of new laws that relate to Voter ID's lately in many states , now while on the surface these laws seem to be aimed at reducing voter fraud which from a statistical level are very low tend to appear aimed more towards a section of the voting public that vote for a single party. That said, if the states that enact these Voter ID Laws charge for the ID's themselves as a means to vote then it would appear they are in violation of the 24th Amendment, however if the ID's are free which as it appears in several states it is the case then in my humble opinion it's not. It would appear though that in the Harper case one could argue that in making a system that is so cumbersome to low income individuals as to prevent them from voting may violate the Equal Protection Clause as well. As a suggestion this issue could be easily solved with a voter registration card that has a person's picture on it, that would be free of charge to anyone who registers to vote.
     
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  2. Vaard
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    Vaard Active Member

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    i fully support requiring an id to vote as long the id is provided for free.......
     
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  3. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Vaard, thats the whole point here, I see nothing wrong with an ID myself as well as long as it's free, so then if that is the case rather than require a limited form of ID like, Drivers License or State ID, it would appear that at some point in the process someone registers to vote and in so doing would be rather simple to issue a voter ID. In some states for example that have passed this, students in Tn. for example cannot use a student ID to vote even though for example a parent has paid for that student to attend that University at great expense. Again, I have no problem with ID's but these states that craft laws that are so egregious that they limit voting by the sheer number of hoops a person has to jump through that it often targets the poor and elderly, those states really call into question the real motive behind these laws.
     
  4. Vaard
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    Vaard Active Member

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    well, you cant use a student id to vote because there is no controls in assuring the id is really that person.... easy to fake, in other words......

    yes, i do question the motives of requiring an id, but not making the id free to all who vote......


    you either require an id to vote and also allow free ids...... or you dont require an id to vote........
     
  5. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Easy to fake assumes there is a large problem with voter fruad which there isn't, yes there are a few cases of voter fraud which there will always be and if the institution is an accredited school within a state that accepts taxpayer funding for it's existance or accepts Federal Funds then the ID's that its students hold should be valid enough for those students to vote in elections.

    If you do not make the ID's free to all, then you run into an Equal Protection issue.

    Personally as I said I don't have an issue with ID's to vote but if the issue were to stop a large problem with voter fruad which it isn't then that would make sense. The bottom line here is that if these states who want such laws really to have any meaning then they should make those ID's free to all who want them.
     
  6. Vaard
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    Vaard Active Member

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    no, i dont mean easy to fake in that sense.....

    i mean, you can enroll in college with any name you want, as long as you are not getting student aid.......

    and the only requirement to get a student id is to be enrolled in that school......

    so that means it does not meet the level of requirement to be a "valid id"..........

    and, yes, i was agreeing with you formthe beginning that if a state is going to require id, it has to make the id free and easily accessable.... i was showing support to your thread, not trying to argue with you.......
     
  7. Conservative
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    And in EVERY SINGLE voter ID law that has been passed since the SCOTUS decision of 2008, there is a provision for a free ID, as well as the provision that provisional ballots can be cast even when the identity of the voter has not been proven, and even when the voter is not listed on the voter rolls.
     
  8. jillian
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    jillian Princess Supporting Member

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    thank you. i knew that even if i didn't agree with your assessment, your comments would be well-reasoned and thought out. i agree that these new laws not only strike at the low income voter, but would suggest they are specifically intended to. making voter registration difficult is intended to discourage younger voters, as well, since young voters generally register at voter registration drives on on their college campuses and high schools. The Florida law, in particular, is so onerous that the League of Women Voters, a non-partisan group whose mission is assuring participation in the political process regardless of one's affiliation, has stopped registering voters:

    Elections bill prompts League of Women Voters to stop registration – Central Florida Political Pulse – Orlando Sentinel

    why is florida doing this? because by far new voters vote democratic... and florida is a swing state... maybe THE swing state... it's the same reason they set up police check points near polling places in 2000.

    The Institute for Southern Studies opines that the law is so extreme it could be outcome determinative in the next election:



    Could Florida's war on voting change the outcome of 2012? | The Institute for Southern Studies
     
  9. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    A couple of things come to mind here, while most states provide a free ID something comes to mind here and that is the qualifications to get such an ID for the purposes of voting. In any such endevour such as requirements for Birth Certs., Documents, etc. that a person must provide in order to obtain this ID to vote, should they have to pay for it, then it may run afoul of the constitution. In that it would qualify as a poll tax, so while a state may provide Free ID's the process of obating the documents needed to get the ID should they cost the voter, would prove to be a poll tax as well.

    Here's an example of the nonsense of these laws,

    Texas vot*ers, begin*ning next year, can*not cast a bal*lot with*out one of the fol*low*ing forms of photo iden*ti*fi*ca*tion: a Texas driver’s license; a Texas con*cealed hand*gun license; a U.S. pass*port; cit*i*zen*ship papers; or a mil*i*tary identification card.

    Vet*er*ans eli*gi*ble for VA med*ical ben*e*fits receive the VA cards, which include photos.


    Vet ID holders cannot vote? | San Antonio Express-News - The Voting News » The Voting News

    In Texas, if you are a student at UT or a Vet with a VA Card you cannot use those to vote, however, you can use your concealed handgun license. If the purpose of these laws is to cut down on voter fraud then it would make sense that a person who identifies themselves at the voting place would and should be acceptable. Frankly I find it interesting that a student at a state sponsored school that accepts state and federal tax money and issues ID's to the students who go there , if those ID's are not acceptable then that institution should not be allowed to accept tax dollars or be regulated by the state legislature which it clearly is. Most of these laws serve but one purpose and that is to deny a hard won the privledge to vote to citizens of this great nation, paid for by the blood of many generations of Americans. In so doing they dishonor everyone past and present that have ever served this nation in its defense of that privledge. While the idea of showing an ID to vote I have no issue with, had it been the purpose to give everyone a voter ID to cut down fraud then a persons picture would have been on a voter registration card and ALL forms of ID would have been acceptable, rather than selective ones.
     

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