Voter Fraud

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by P@triot, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. P@triot
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    P@triot Gold Member

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    Here are the facts related to voter fraud:

    People seemingly voting after they've been dead for years. Drug kingpins buying votes from poor people to sway elections. Non-citizens being bussed to the polls and coached on how to vote. Stories of voting fraud are shocking, and states have been taking action to make sure that elections are secure. But the Justice Department, led by Attorney General Eric Holder, has blocked states at almost every turn.

    This is the same Justice Department that*stopped a non-partisan election reform by arguing that if party affiliation were removed from a ballot, African-American voters wouldn't be able to identify and vote for the Democrats. Holder has continued to stoke the racial fires, calling a requirement for voters to produce photo identification a "poll tax." Heritage expert Hans von Spakovsky said this argument is merely political. "Holder continues to perpetuate the incendiary error to the public, knowing that the poll-tax assertion is a racially charged one that should not be used lightly," von Spakovsky said. He explained:
    Even the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals—the most liberal appeals court in the country—did not buy the Holder poll tax claim when it reviewed Arizona's voter ID law. In Gonzalez v. Arizona (2012), the Ninth Circuit held that even though "obtaining the free identification required under [Arizona law] may have a cost," such immaterial costs are not a poll tax.

    Holder is now "investigating" Pennsylvania's voter ID law, on the left's charge that it disenfranchises minorities.

    Former Congressman Artur Davis, an African-American from Alabama who served in Congress as a Democrat from 2003 to 2011, finds this argument incredibly insulting. Speaking at The Heritage Foundation yesterday, Davis held up his driver's license and said, "This is not a billy club. It is not a fire hose. I used to represent Birmingham and Selma, Alabama, and I know something about fire hoses."

    In states that have voter ID laws, the real-world results show that minorities have not been disenfranchised by any means. States that require ID to vote have offered free IDs to anyone who does not have one already. In Kansas, which allows any of nine different forms of ID as proof of identity to vote:
    Out of a total of 1.713 million registered voters in Kansas, only 32 people had requested a free photo ID as of May 4, 2012. That represents only 0.002 percent of the registered voters in the state. Of those 32 voters, 80 percent were white, 10 percent were black, and the race or ethnicity of 10 percent was unknown. Thus, there is no evidence that minority voters were disproportionately affected.

    Georgia, which has had voter ID since 2007, allows six different forms of ID to vote. And there has been no stampede of would-be voters who lack identification: "The number of photo IDs issued by Georgia to individuals who did not already have one of the forms of ID acceptable under state law is remarkably small, averaging less 0.05 percent in most years, and not even reaching three-tenths of 1 percent in a presidential election year."

    What happened to minority voting after the law went into effect? In the 2008 presidential election, Hispanic voting in Georgia increased by 140 percent over the 2004 election. African-American voting increased by 42 percent. That is also a higher rate of increase than in other states without voter ID. Von Spakovsky notes:

    The increase in turnout of both Hispanics and blacks in the 2008 presidential election after the voter ID law became effective is quite remarkable, particularly given the unproven and totally speculative claims of the Justice Department that the voter ID requirements of Texas and South Carolina will somehow have a discriminatory impact on Hispanic and black voters. In fact, Georgia had the largest turnout of minority voters in its history.

    The evidence that producing photo ID is a burden simply isn't there. "How can it be a burden to ask people to do something they do all the time?" asked Congressman Davis, who said he went to a news organization to do an interview on voter ID and had to produce his driver's license to enter the news organization.

    The Justice Department requires ID from visitors as well.

    ..................................... Read more At.............................

    Morning Bell: Justice Department Blocks Voter ID at Every Turn
     
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  2. BDBoop
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    BDBoop BANNED

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    I think you meant to say 'here are the facts on voter fraud as presented by my side of the aisle.'

    There is not, and has not been, enough voter fraud to legitimize disenfranchising huge numbers of legitimate voters.
     
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  3. P@triot
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    P@triot Gold Member

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    Where are your sources to back up your allegation? I posted a link to some concrete numbers.

    Furthermore, why is your side of the aisle so afraid of this issue? If it stops even 1 vote that was fraudulent, I would think everyone would support that. Unless, of course, your the side behind the fraud.

    The state of Georgia has actually seen a major increase in minority voting since requiring proper identification.

    Trying to make the case that people shouldn't have to prove who they are before casting a vote is as asinine as trying to make a case that murder should be legalized. This is just stupid. I know the left is desperate, but you would think they would come up with a better argument than it should be ok to have voter fraud.
     
  4. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections
    Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections


    We conclude that a State violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment whenever it makes the affluence of the voter or payment of any fee an electoral standard.

    Regardless of what the 9th may think in this matter, any fee that a voter may pay for the sole purpose of voting is a "poll tax" and violates the 24th amendment as well as the 14th. These Voter ID laws do not combat fraud because the instances of fraud from them to combat is virtually nonexistant, and had it been such an issue as these states may claim, then it would have been so prior to this election. In fact if these laws keep one American from voting simply because they cannot afford the documentation to obatain these ID's then they have taken away that person(s) right to express themselves under several constitutional Amendments.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  5. kiwiman127
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    kiwiman127 Comfortably Moderate Supporting Member

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    Voter fraud is just another scare tactic and that's it!

    ====================================================

    Policy Brief on the Truth About “Voter Fraud”
    Summary

    * Fraud by individual voters is both irrational and extremely rare.
    * Many vivid anecdotes of purported voter fraud have been proven false or do not demonstrate fraud.
    * Voter fraud is often conflated with other forms of election misconduct.
    * Raising the unsubstantiated specter of mass voter fraud suits a particular policy agenda.
    * Claims of voter fraud should be carefully tested before they become the basis for action.
    <snip>
    Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.
    <snip>
    Voter fraud is most often invoked as a substantial problem in order to justify particular election policies. Chief among these is the proposal that individuals be required to show photo ID in order to vote - a policy that disenfranchises up to 10% of eligible citizens. But the only misconduct that photo ID addresses is the kind of voter fraud that happens as infrequently as death by lightning.
    w.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_the_truth_about_voter_fraud/]Policy Brief on the Truth About &#8220;Voter Fraud&#8221; | Brennan Center for Justice

    ================================================

    So, being as voter fraud is rare, rare, rare, what's the point of disenfranchising 10% of eligible voters and why the scare tactics?

     
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    Last edited: Jul 31, 2012
  6. Rambunctious
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    Rambunctious Gold Member

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    Voter fraud is real and if it didn't work people wouldn't attempt it. If anyone thinks it's OK because it helps his or her side of the isle you are wrong. Eventually both sides of the body politic will be infected with fraud and that will hurt all of us. Stand up against voter fraud and support voter ID or pay for it down the road.
     
  7. Navy1960
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    Navy1960 Senior Member

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    Because voter fraud is essentially irrational, it is not surprising that no credible evidence suggests a voter fraud epidemic. There is no documented wave or trend of individuals voting multiple times, voting as someone else, or voting despite knowing that they are ineligible. Indeed, evidence from the microscopically scrutinized 2004 gubernatorial election in Washington State actually reveals just the opposite: though voter fraud does happen, it happens approximately 0.0009% of the time. The similarly closely-analyzed 2004 election in Ohio revealed a voter fraud rate of 0.00004%. National Weather Service data shows that Americans are struck and killed by lightning about as often.

    Policy Brief on the Truth About &#8220;Voter Fraud&#8221; | Brennan Center for Justice
     
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  8. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    So here's the deal. Unless they can be refuted by a credible source, Rottweiler has posted some substantial numbers backing up his O.P.

    So I'm going to have to ask you to support how Voter I.D. disenfranchises huge numbers of legitimate voters.
     
  9. oldernwiser
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    oldernwiser VIP Member

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    According to Al Sharpton on last night's Block the Vote sermon on MSNBC, PA's new law will impact almost 260K voters who don't have the voter ID required. That's something like 9.1% of the registered voters in that state alone.

    I don't agree with Sharpton as a rule, but it seems to me that affecting 260K potential voters to scare off the 9 fraudulent votes per million cast (WA state, 4 votes in 10 million per Ohio's study) can only be considered an effort to keep voters away from polls.

    If there's a real problem impacting our election process, where is the data to show it's impact? If we accept that there are 9 frauds per million votes, in a state like Fla we're talking about less than 3 wrongfully cast votes in an election where they get 100% turnout. How many hanging chads were there in the Bush election?
     
  10. C_Clayton_Jones
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    C_Clayton_Jones Diamond Member

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    Correct.

    There is no evidence ‘fraud’ altered the outcome of any election.

    With a voter ‘fraud’ rate of only 0.0003%, there is no justification of requiring an ID to vote.
     

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