Valuing Assets - What Trump Prosecutors Do Not Understand

[Foxfyre]

That is 100% correct. Same thing with Trump, it's the lender's call to assure the value before handing over their money. Trump can tell them any value, it's up to them to underwrite the equity.

Yep. It is pretty damn hard to defraud a lender by over valuing the collateral unless the lender is a total idiot.

There was one case long ago in Amarillo TX. Our friend was in the finance business and they made mostly small personal loans on cars, furniture, other collateral of that type. It was a stormy day with wind driven rain and a severe thunderstorm warning when a customer comes in requesting a $1,000 loan against his car. He had the pink slip, tag number, serial number in hand. He said it was visible outside the window and sure enough when they opened the blinds and looked they saw a nice looking car--can't remember the make--that certainly was worth more than $1,000. The guys credit was okay so they made the loan, handed over the $1,000 and the guy left. The next morning the car was still there which seemed odd so they went out to inspect it. The side they couldn't see had massive collision damage and there was no engine under the hood. The guy or somebody had pushed it into the parking place and gambled that the lender would not go out in the rain to inspect it.

You can be sure that company made no more loans without doing the proper inspection. And banks and other mortgage lenders don't make loans without appraisals.

 

[Foxfyre]

From the link. .. wow, when you don't have FT? This case is shot, IMO.

View attachment 839454

High end apartments and penthouses in New York City can sell for a whole lot more than $88 million.

How Much Do Penthouses Cost In New York - NewYorkDaily.net

Sotheby's describes this lavish 6-bed penthouse as "unlike any other apartment in New York City."

www.newyorkdaily.net

 

[Leo123]

Yep. It is pretty damn hard to defraud a lender by over valuing the collateral unless the lender is a total idiot.

There was one case long ago in Amarillo TX. Our friend was in the finance business and they made mostly small personal loans on cars, furniture, other collateral of that type. It was a stormy day with wind driven rain and a severe thunderstorm warning when a customer comes in requesting a $1,000 loan against his car. He had the pink slip, tag number, serial number in hand. He said it was visible outside the window and sure enough when they opened the blinds and looked they saw a nice looking car--can't remember the make--that certainly was worth more than $1,000. The guys credit was okay so they made the loan, handed over the $1,000 and the guy left. The next morning the car was still there which seemed odd so they went out to inspect it. The side they couldn't see had massive collision damage and there was no engine under the hood. The guy or somebody had pushed it into the parking place and gambled that the lender would not go out in the rain to inspect it.

You can be sure that company made no more loans without doing the proper inspection. And banks and other mortgage lenders don't make loans without appraisals.

Sounds like a private money lender. They don't have to adhere to Fed rules but their interest rates are sky high and depending on where they get their money to lend could have less than understanding collectors. That guy better be looooooong gone!!!

 

[Foxfyre]

Sounds like a private money lender. They don't have to adhere to Fed rules but their interest rates are sky high and depending on where they get their money to lend could have less than understanding collectors. That guy better be looooooong gone!!!

This was years ago when finance companies were common. This particular company "Southwestern Investment Company" or SIC had many branch offices across New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, et al. I think it was probably bought out and merged with another company years ago but it was a pretty big deal at the time.

Their primary business was 'floor planning' for auto dealerships, furniture and appliance retailers and such who sold on credit it. They would buy the loan from such entities and the buyer would make payments to the finance company that included interest of course. But they also made personal loans to people as well which was the case of the fiasco described.

They did not make real estate loans however which is a whole different ballgame.

 

[MisterBeale]

High end apartments and penthouses in New York City can sell for a whole lot more than $88 million.

How Much Do Penthouses Cost In New York - NewYorkDaily.net

Sotheby's describes this lavish 6-bed penthouse as "unlike any other apartment in New York City."

www.newyorkdaily.net

The point of the FT article is that the legal system has no business assessing value. Not if there is no damaged party.

Its the market that assigns that. Agreed, that is the whole point, whatever a buyer will pay. . .

 

[Independent thinker]

Best of FT Money 2023: Trump is right on asset prices

Valuation is more an art than science

www.ft.com

The NY fraud trial is tantamount to getting a pee-wee football team together and putting them on a baseball diamond to play the Braves. Neither Letitia James nor the judge know what the fuck they are doing substantively in this case. To make matters worse, they are sub-par people.

The whole thing is about fraud and I'd like to know exactly who was defrauded, the banks? The banks have never said they were the victims of Trump fraud. The banks not only didn't lose any money because of Trump, they actually made money because of Trump. So, who was actually defrauded? How can there be fraud when there was no fraud?

 

[pknopp]

Tell it to the judge.

 

[DBA]

Tell it to the judge.

Much like liberal Supreme Court judges, this judge doesn’t care about precedent, facts or the law. He twists the facts and the law in an attempt to fit the Democratic narrative du jour.

 

[pknopp]

Much like liberal Supreme Court judges, this judge doesn’t care about precedent, facts or the law. He twists the facts and the law in an attempt to fit the Democratic narrative du jour.

You can trust the courts to protect your rights..........

 

[DBA]

You can trust the courts to protect your rights..........

Sadly, not if the Democrats continue down the path they are currently on.

 

[pknopp]

Sadly, not if the Democrats continue down the path they are currently on.

Cry me a river.

 

[DBA]

Cry me a river.

You don’t see the danger because you LIKE the outcomes. I wouldn’t agree with a right-leaning judge ignoring the law and precedent to feed his political agenda because I realize how dangerous that can be.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Ah, the University of YouTube Law School graduates chime in.

Good luck with that. I'm sure it will work out as well as your previous hundred legal theories concerning Trump.

How do you explain precedent as sited where assets of celebrities were sold at inflated prices because of who they were? Personally, I would not pay one dime over and above what I was willing to pay pure for the asset just because the asset belonged to a celebrity previously…. But that does not mean the practice doesn’t exist and it inflates and asset’s value.

 

[justoffal]

Assessors don't play the brand game.

Ahhh.... actually yes they do.
Especially when they work for municipalities.

 

[justoffal]

You don’t see the danger because you LIKE the outcomes. I wouldn’t agree with a right-leaning judge ignoring the law and precedent to feed his political agenda because I realize how dangerous that can be.

Lefty always starts stuff that bites him in the ass later. Lack of depth and foresight. Call it the Harry Reid effect.

 

[Moonglow]

Ahhh.... actually yes they do.
Especially when they work for municipalities.

They do and can over value for a higher tax rate but an attorney and judge can end that.

 

[justoffal]

They do and can over value for a higher tax rate but an attorney and judge can end that.

Good to know

 

[pknopp]

You don’t see the danger because you LIKE the outcomes. I wouldn’t agree with a right-leaning judge ignoring the law and precedent to feed his political agenda because I realize how dangerous that can be.

I've complained about the system for years. Trump supporters cared less then.

How do you like it now?

 

[Foxfyre]

The point of the FT article is that the legal system has no business assessing value. Not if there is no damaged party.

Its the market that assigns that. Agreed, that is the whole point, whatever a buyer will pay. . .

Definitely. Here in Albuquerque, before COVID, many desirable homes were getting bids from buyers and as often as not the highest bidder paid above the appraised value of the property. This is a gamble for the buyer that the property will continue to appreciate in value but at that time, the properties were doing that.

In that kind of market, sellers often set the asking price higher than the appraised value.

There is absolutely nothing illegal in doing that.

But these buyers also had sufficient cash for substantial down payments as the lenders sure as heck won't lend more than the appraised value.

I can't imagine lending policies in New York are that much different.

 

[whitehall]

Prosecutors understand alright but they follow orders from a higher authority if they want to keep their jobs. Trump built things and took chances and met payrolls with good wages for workers. Biden never had a real job but he and his family amassed a fortune and nobody knows or cares where it came from.