CDZ USMB POLL: Woman shot, killed by two-year-old son - Who is responsible for this woman's death?

[Tresha91203]

The mother was negligent. She put her gun in a position to be taken and used by a toddler. She bears responsibility.

Negligent is a legal term.

Declaring her negligent would be very difficult to get a jury to go along with. It is certainly possible.

I don't think it is legal to leave your gun in your purse and walk away. If she had a concealed carry permit, she is required to carry it, at least around here. It can be in a locked car, locked suitcase/briefcase, locked box in a purse left in the cart. It is not legal in an unlocked car, unlocked briefcase left behind at your desk, or loose in an unlocked purse in a shopping cart.

Here's some good questions before deciding to carry in your purse rather than body holster.

The Concealed Carry Purse

 

[oldsoul]

Yes, and Yes. As parents we are responsible for protecting our children.

So parents should not be allowed to own horses, pools, buckets, or weapons, because it's theoretically possible that a child might get hurt.

What about tubs?

Parents should be intelligent.

I'll let that sink in for a moment.

A parent who has a backyard pool and doesn't (A) teach their child to swim at a very early age (arguably, all children should be taught to swim, considering that infants can swim from birth, and it may not necessarily be the family pool, but some Idiot Neighbor who's at fault and (B) fence that pool in before the kid can walk and (C) explain to the kid that deep water is dangerous, is as reprehensible as the stupid cow who puts a gun in her purse and sets the purse down next to the two-year-old in the grocery wagon.

As for horses, or any animal, you teach the child that this is a living thing, not a toy, and you teach the child how to comport itself around the animal.

Otherwise, it's not the animal's fault if something happens. It's you the "NOTMYFAULTNOTMYFAULTIT'SLIBRULSFAULTNOTMINE, NOPE, NOPE, NOPE!" idiot who, in a sane society, would have been questioned for your ability to breed.

A child of five can be taught that a living creature is dangerous till the cows come home, and still forget what they're capable of and run up behind one in the flash of an eye. And infants who can swim can slip on the pavement, hit their heads and drown regardless.

The idea that children obey perfectly if they're correctly taught is laughable.

So, what are you saying? We should ban everything that is deemed " dangerous? If that is the case we need to start with walking and driving.... THAT would be laughable.

No, Im saying what I said. I appreciate your desire to continually attribute more to me, but I'm pretty clear. Blaming parents for accidents when they are reasonably cautious is asinine.

There you go again, misreading (maybe on purpose, maybe not) my post. I asked a question. Is that difficult for you to understand?
This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

I don't think it is legal to leave your gun in your purse and walk away. If she had a concealed carry permit, she is required to carry it, at least around here. It can be in a locked car, locked suitcase/briefcase, locked box in a purse left in the cart. It is not legal in an unlocked car, unlocked briefcase left behind at your desk, or loose in an unlocked purse in a shopping cart.

Here's some good questions before deciding to carry in your purse rather than body holster.

The Concealed Carry Purse

Do women EVER walk away and leave their purse somewhere? I'm not sure being a man.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

The thread isn't about if she was negligent or not. It was asked if she was "responsible."

 

[320 Years of History]

I don't think it is legal to leave your gun in your purse and walk away. If she had a concealed carry permit, she is required to carry it, at least around here. It can be in a locked car, locked suitcase/briefcase, locked box in a purse left in the cart. It is not legal in an unlocked car, unlocked briefcase left behind at your desk, or loose in an unlocked purse in a shopping cart.

Here's some good questions before deciding to carry in your purse rather than body holster.

The Concealed Carry Purse

Do women EVER walk away and leave their purse somewhere? I'm not sure being a man.

They do. It's not common, but it happens.

 

[Picaro]

If a mom having a gun in her purse while she has her child with her is a "bad choice" then hundreds of thousands (if not a million or more) make that same "bad choice" every day. . . yet, tragic incidents like this one are not at all commonplace.

Violent criminals create the need and the fear in the first place. While she was personally negligent in this instance, the higher blame belongs on violent criminals.

 

[oldsoul]

This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

The thread isn't about if she was negligent or not. It was asked if she was "responsible."

While you are correct, it is obvious by your post you have not read the entire conversation. Do try to keep up.

 

[Picaro]

The mother was negligent. She put her gun in a position to be taken and used by a toddler. She bears responsibility.

She also thought she needed to carry a loaded gun in her purse while shopping. Whomever sold her on that idea while not instilling in her responsibility and safety bears responsibility as well.

She was sold the idea by criminals and their activities, ultimately. I've read so many stories of families and children burning to death in house fires because of being trapped by burglar bars and the like I wouldn't be the least bit bothered if every convicted thief within a 100 mile radius automatically got maximum negligent manslaughter sentences tacked on top of the thievery charges and the future convicts in the next 10 years got it tacked on also. In instances like this the same thing with rapists, armed robbers, etc.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

While you are correct, it is obvious by your post you have not read the entire conversation. Do try to keep up.

I HAVE read the entire thread carefully, thank you.

 

[Tresha91203]

I don't think it is legal to leave your gun in your purse and walk away. If she had a concealed carry permit, she is required to carry it, at least around here. It can be in a locked car, locked suitcase/briefcase, locked box in a purse left in the cart. It is not legal in an unlocked car, unlocked briefcase left behind at your desk, or loose in an unlocked purse in a shopping cart.

Here's some good questions before deciding to carry in your purse rather than body holster.

The Concealed Carry Purse

Do women EVER walk away and leave their purse somewhere? I'm not sure being a man.

Yes, often. Shopping carts, backs of chairs in restaurants, buffets, hooks on bathroom doors, changing rooms, etc. Some are not on purpose but many are. If you are fortunate enough to live in a safe area, like me, these are intentional:

Buffets
Dressing rooms
Running unlocked car when buying coke or smokes at convenience store
Filling up the car with gas
Shopping cart when I am several paces away
Coatroom/closet at private dinners or parties
On bar when on dance floor

These I've done accidentally:

Left on hook on door of bathroom stall
Left in unlocked car when at fair/festival (usually lock in trunk)
Left hanging on chair at restaurant
Left at work, just sitting on shelf

Purses are bulky and often heavy. If you need both hands, you often find a place to drop the purse till you are done.

 

[oldsoul]

While you are correct, it is obvious by your post you have not read the entire conversation. Do try to keep up.

I HAVE read the entire thread carefully, thank you.

Then you apparently do not understand that I have already addressed the original question and have moved on. I am sorry you missed it.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Then you apparently do not understand that I have already addressed the original question and have moved on. I am sorry you missed it.

What was the original question? Or do you want to continue to be cryptic?

 

[oldsoul]

Then you apparently do not understand that I have already addressed the original question and have moved on. I am sorry you missed it.

What was the original question? Or do you want to continue to be cryptic?

I HAVE read the entire thread carefully, thank you.

I would think you could answer your own question. However, I will endulge. The original queation was:
Who do you think is responsible for the woman's death? I have paraphrased of course, but it is the original question.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Then you apparently do not understand that I have already addressed the original question and have moved on. I am sorry you missed it.

What was the original question? Or do you want to continue to be cryptic?

I HAVE read the entire thread carefully, thank you.

I would think you could answer your own question. However, I will endulge. The original queation was:
Who do you think is responsible for the woman's death? I have paraphrased of course, but it is the original question.

What does that got to do with my comment to you?

 

[ogibillm]

This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

The thread isn't about if she was negligent or not. It was asked if she was "responsible."

negligence implies responsibility

 

[oldsoul]

Then you apparently do not understand that I have already addressed the original question and have moved on. I am sorry you missed it.

What was the original question? Or do you want to continue to be cryptic?

I HAVE read the entire thread carefully, thank you.

I would think you could answer your own question. However, I will endulge. The original queation was:
Who do you think is responsible for the woman's death? I have paraphrased of course, but it is the original question.

What does that got to do with my comment to you?

I have not been able to follow your thinking. Could you clarify for me?

 

[Tresha91203]

This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

The thread isn't about if she was negligent or not. It was asked if she was "responsible."

I think this is the sticking point for me. She chose to have a weapon and she was negligent with it. To me, it was her responsibility to not be negligent. If she were running with scissors, she would be responsible for the outcome in my mind. It would be an accident, but one she was at fault for.

In my area, I am legally responsible if a trespasser drowns in my pool when I am away on vacation. That one, I have issues with. I suspect she was legally required to carry her weapon on her person when out and about. That one, I agree with.

 

[Asclepias]

If a mom having a gun in her purse while she has her child with her is a "bad choice" then hundreds of thousands (if not a million or more) make that same "bad choice" every day. . . yet, tragic incidents like this one are not at all commonplace.

Violent criminals create the need and the fear in the first place. While she was personally negligent in this instance, the higher blame belongs on violent criminals.

No one forced her to purchase a gun and put it in her purse for the child to shoot her with. She made the decision. She is responsible. Violent crime is what you call a reason.

 

[ogibillm]

This was a very preventable "accident", If the woman in question had properly secured her firearm, this would not have happened. Did she make a mistake? Yes. Was she negligent? Yes. Was she reasonably cautious? Obviously not. So to blame her is not asinine, it is reasonable.

The thread isn't about if she was negligent or not. It was asked if she was "responsible."

I think this is the sticking point for me. She chose to have a weapon and she was negligent with it. To me, it was her responsibility to not be negligent. If she were running with scissors, she would be responsible for the outcome in my mind. It would be an accident, but one she was at fault for.

In my area, I am legally responsible if a trespasser drowns in my pool when I am away on vacation. That one, I have issues with. I suspect she was legally required to carry her weapon on her person when out and about. That one, I agree with.

you would be legally responsible if you were negligent and did not take prudent precautions - like say installing a fence.

 

[Arianrhod]

Let's say this woman had a knife or a pair of scissors in her purse instead of a gun, and the two-year-old grabbed this not-a-gun and stabbed Mom in the neck, killing her. How many of you would be making the same excuses?

Guns don't kill people. Irrational gun owners who'll use any excuse to defend their toys do.