US Savage Imperialism

[Cecilie1200]

Idiot savant.

Just because you know everything about something does not mean you know a whole lot about anything else.

But Chomsky's big insight (That human grammar seems instinctive, but specific grammars are cultural) seems pretty obvios.

And quite a lot of folks who are very bright, also find themselves going down rabbit holes or through the looking glass when they forget their humanity.

Chomsky, like Kozinsky, is what happens when you combine brilliance with psychosis.

Chomsky may or may not be a brilliant linguist. One assumes, since the government sees fit to give him grant funding. He is also, unfortunately, what Daniel Flynn calls an "intellectual moron", cognitive elites who are led by their ideological obsessions to embrace seriously stupid ideas.

He should have stuck to his own field, and not allowed himself to believe that brilliance in one thing means you're brilliant in everything.

And you are somehow more credible? No I think you have it exactly backwards! And your field is?

The difference, my dear dumbass, is that I'M not running around writing books and articles on politics and being praised by twits like George over there as the second coming of Plato. So the only credibility I need is the ability to quote Chomsky from the record.

And my field is slapping down oxygen thieves like you. Thanks for asking.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Except for the fact that he is perhaps the most respected of all American political science scholars.

EVERYBODY who understands Chomsky takes him seriously. So seriously that there are several folks who have made an entire career out of minimizing the impacts of Chomsky's message.

I understand Hitler was very respected in his time, as well. In fact, I understand that a lot of people STILL respect him. Doesn't make him someone I care to admire or quote, but hey, don't let ME stop you.

I'll give you that everybody who understands Chomsky takes him seriously. It's only those who THINK they understand him who take him seriously AND ADMIRE HIM. And you're damned right they try to minimize his impact, much the same way an oncologist tries to minimize the impact of a malignant tumor.

Apparently Chomsky is a threat to your ignorance!

Did you know that Chomsky is a Jew?

Give it up, Brain Trust. Personal attacks against me are not going to divert anyone from the truth about Chomsky or save you from their recognition that you have nothing meaningful to say. And I don't give a fuck if he's the first cousin of the Israeli Prime Minister. He's still an anti-Semitic bigot, a liar, a bloviating windbag, and a cancer on American political thought. Being a Jew makes his hatred of Jews much sadder, but no less real.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Define "expert".

How many are quoted as often as Plato?

Marx?

Satan has been quoted more than almost anyone else. Let's all become Satanists.

nobody has ever quoted Satan. Even the bible doesn't list a single quote credited to Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. There is a little passage wherein Jesus speaks with a legion of spirits, none of which are identified as Satan.

Wrong again. Book of Job, beginning with verse 7:

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Sure looks like a quote attributed to Satan to ME.

 

[Londoner]

Chomsky actually shares something with the Right that receives very little focus. They both believe that government lies in order to protect and expand its power.

Here is the problem. When it comes to real government power, i.e., war, the Right trusts government far too much to question it. At the end of the day, the Right is an unquestioning servant of what government says about the War on Terrorism. The Right questions nothing.

Real government power is insulated by the Right's fake questioning of it. Their leaders create a facade of mistrust; they act as if they're holding government accountable so nobody notices that they're not questioning government on the most important things. This is the point of talk radio: to direct the mistrust into safe issues so the real power of government is safely insulated from the serfs, who are conditioned to salivate on cue to gay marriage, illegal aliens, and welfare cheats, so nobody notices that country is being looted by derivative scams and corrupt wars. This is why the average Right wing voter is so dangerous to the country -- because they are so easily fooled by Talk Radio, which is literally paid to agitate the serfs over manufactured demons.

Remember: the Left protested LBJ's war in the 60s, whereas the Right treats Reagan with more reverence than God, and they trust the Pentagon budget more than their pastor. (They trust government!)

The Right claims to worry about big government, but they are rabid believers in (and defenders of) their version of Big Government -- and nothing is bigger and more invasive than a government's war powers. Here is what the Right doesn't understand: the Cold War not only made government bigger and more expensive than LBJ's Great Society, but it made it more secretive, that is, the Right began to use the Cold War (and later the War on Terrorism) to spy on (and collect data on) American citizens. The Right hides behind the threat of national enemies in order to hunt internal political enemies, e.g., using the patriot act to take down Spitzer, who was making a move against the Bush administration and Bush allies on Wall Street. During the 50's, the Cold War became a vehicle to destroy Liberal politicians, who the Right claimed were in cahoots with the Soviets. The Right craves government power, and they use it more corruptly than anyone.

The Right also used the Soviet threat (and later the terrorist threat) to move more of components of Government behind locked doors, insulated from the press and the public, that is, they used (and still use) war to concentrate and hide government power. "Sorry, that's a national security issue. We can't let you review the intelligence we have on Saddam, or investigate why the FBI was used to investigate Spitzer"

How does the GOP get away with such dangerous and corrupt concentrations of Government power? The average Rightwing voter doesn't question a thing when it comes to their trusted big brother. They only challenge the government over manufactured wedge issues aka distractions. Where the rubber meets the road, however, they don flag pins and bow at the alter of the Pentagon, consigning us to strategic blunders without end.

They say government can't be trusted to run a laundromat, but they gave it the power base the globe and rebuild whole Arab nations. (They never question one single Pentagon budget item or mission BECAUSE they trust government deeply. If Bush says they can build an Iraq-Disney, they march in unison like lemmings. If Bush says Saddam has nukes pointed at Idaho, they flock to the message boards as government servants).

Their pathological loyalty to government prevents them from seeing this contradiction. Love is blind, and the Right loves government.

Don't you people get it? The right defines themselves over their suspicion of government, but they drooled and cried when Reagan spoke about the evil empire. These people love and trust government deeply.

Corrupt politicians and dumb voters, left and right, have gotten this country stuck in Arab quick sand and predatory housing bubbles.

We can no longer afford's the Right's trust of big government. We need them to break the chains of Talk Radio and learn how to question government on issues that Rush doesn't talk about.

God Help Us.

 

[skookerasbil]

In the beginning, there is Chomsky.

"It's tempting to go back to the beginning.

"The beginning goes pretty far back, but it is useful to think about some aspects of American history that bear directly on current U.S. policy in the Middle East.

"The U.S. is a pretty unusual country in many ways.

"It's maybe the only country in the world that was founded as an empire.

"It was an infant empire—as George Washington called it—and the founding fathers had broad aspirations.

"The most libertarian of them, Thomas Jefferson, thought that this infant empire should spread and become what he called the 'nest' from which the entire continent would be colonized.

"That would get rid of the 'Red,' the Indians as they'd be driven away or exterminated.

"The Blacks would be sent back to Africa when we don't need them anymore and the Latins will be eliminated by a superior race."

Does American history, with its settler colonialist mentality, resonate with US support for Israel's current policies in the occupied territories?

Is today's "Iranian Threat" the latest manifestation of John Quincy Adams's grand strategy of security through expansion, the belief "...that you can't really have security until you control everything"?

Thankfully............less than 10% of the country holds the same sentiment as the meathead who posted this thread up.
I'd say "FCUKK THE HATE AMERICA TYPES"...........but nobody cares. They are politically irrelevant and exist only in the nether regions of the internet.

 

[georgephillip]

Satan has been quoted more than almost anyone else. Let's all become Satanists.

nobody has ever quoted Satan. Even the bible doesn't list a single quote credited to Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. There is a little passage wherein Jesus speaks with a legion of spirits, none of which are identified as Satan.

Wrong again. Book of Job, beginning with verse 7:

7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Sure looks like a quote attributed to Satan to ME.

You've found five Satan "quotes" in a book of myths.

I'll stick with Chaucer, Cicero and Chomsky.

btw, if your definition of prophet involves telling the truth, something arrogant shit like you are allergic to, Chomsky's a proven quantity.

You're proven pathetic.

 

[georgephillip]

No. I think the North Koreans attacking South Korea..our Allies..was why it occurred.


You don't want death..don't start the fight.

What makes you think "North" Korea started that fight?

The fact that we aren't lobotomized psych patients who worship and idolize Noam Chomsky and would believe his inane and dishonest prattlings over God Himself if presented the chance, unlike SOME people I could mention.

I love how you present quotes from Chomsky as "proof" of Chomsky's correctness and brilliance, though. Nothing like a lying fool being substantiated by himself.

In 2002 Gary Leupp was an associate professor in the Department of History at Tufts University and coordinator of its Asian Studies Program.

He provided the following 33(+bonus) question Pop Quiz on Korean History along with all the answers to CounterPunch readers in December of 2002 .

A couple of samples with Gary's correct answers bolded:

"5. In accordance with a wartime agreement that the USSR would enter the war with Japan following the German surrender, Soviet forces invaded Korea in August, advancing to the 38th parallel by August 10. They could easily have occupied the whole peninsula. What did they do?

a. They accepted the Japanese surrender, provided arms to local communist forces led by Kim Il-sung, and withdrew within the year.

b. They consulted with their American allies, who requested that they stop their advance at the 38th parallel, so that U.S. forces could in the next month occupy the rest of Korea. The Soviets agreed to the U.S. proposal.

c. They proclaimed the Korean Soviet Republic and made plans for permanent incorporation into the USSR.

And the bonus question:

"Current (2002) South Korean public opinion polls indicate that the foreign country people most fear is

a. the U.S.

b. North Korea

c. China

Guess who.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Is today's "Iranian Threat" the latest manifestation of John Quincy Adams's grand strategy of security through expansion, the belief "...that you can't really have security until you control everything"?

I figure.....if I was an Iranian....and, someone asked me why I needed nukes....I'd point to Iraq, and say.....

"That's what happens, when you DON'T have nukes."

(...Especially when Chickenhawks know you have no Nukes.)​

Or they can point to South Korea and say that is what happens when you embrace capitalism and the West and don't have nukes and then you can point to shithole North Korea and say that is what happens when you have nukes, embrace communism/socialism and try to buck the west!

.....And, never have to worry about some rich-dude's frat-boy son invading you.

(How eerily-similar the Bushes & Kims are!! )​

 

[daveman]

Palin has only worked in the salmon industry and backwater corners of the globe.

Chomsky is an academic, but there haven't been two other American political scientists of his caliber since his birth.

To brush him and his message off without considering it is proof that you are an ideologue hiding your head in the sand dreadfully afraid of mere ideals.

THINK for God sakes and stop feeling threatened by mere ideals. Esp when they are world class ideas.

What makes you think I haven't considered his message? Are you so simple-minded that you believe anyone who disagrees with him hasn't investigated what he says?

I've read his shit. He's king retard of the America Sucks club. He should stick to linguistics.

Hell nobody loves Karl Marx, but virtually EVERYBODY on the American right is devoutly committed to Marx's ideas!

Ummmm...wrong. Insanely, astoundingly, utterly, universally wrong.

OK, YOU are DEFINITELY a devout Marxist and I will prove that irrefutably within a few days.

That should be amusing.

IF you have considered Chomsky seriously discuss anything he ever wrote or said and why you disagree with it. And no googling!

Okay. His whitewashing of the Pol Pot regime was not based on reality, it was based on ideology.

If the pentagon sponsors his opinions why don't you!?!?

The Pentagon doesn't sponsor his political opinions. They pay him for his linguistics work. Idiot.

 

[daveman]

George, how long are you going to ignore this? Chomsky is a war profiteer.

George, how long are you going to ignore this? Chomsky is a war profiteer.

daveman:

As I said on page 5 post #66 I will continue supporting Noam for the same reason I'll continue quoting Einstein in spite of the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths his theory contributed to.

The Pentagon and Wall Street will continue the killing for profits as long as patriots like you (and Chomsky) dedicate decades of your lives to helping them do it.

It's a CLASS WAR, dman.

Noam and Al got some of it.

You're still in denial.

So, instead of condemning Chomsky for the same actions you condemn others for, you forgive him and praise him for those actions.

Gasp.

What a hypocrite you are.

 

[daveman]

MIT is a war profiteer. The pentagon probably just supports his dept because he offers valuable analysis of geopolitics that they want access to.

Why would the Pentagon pay good money to be told that America is the source of all evil in the world?

Idiot.

Because the pentagon is tasked with bizarro missions like winning hearts and minds of insurgents, propaganda across the globe and information wars. You may not realize this but our propaganda, intel and espionage budget is considerably larger than our military hardware/military personnel/military installation bill. Something like 40% of the military is intel and propaganda tasked.

And Chomsky is a gold mine for propaganda specialists. Nobody decodes propaganda or distills it better.

Now you get to prove that that's what he does for the Pentagon.

NOTE: "Because I really really really really want it to be true" is not proof. You'll have to do better than your usual.

 

[daveman]

Define "expert".

How many are quoted as often as Plato?

Marx?

Satan has been quoted more than almost anyone else. Let's all become Satanists.

nobody has ever quoted Satan. Even the bible doesn't list a single quote credited to Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. There is a little passage wherein Jesus speaks with a legion of spirits, none of which are identified as Satan.

Ooops.


Matthew 4
New International Version
The Temptation of Jesus

1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’a”

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’b”
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’c”

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’d”

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

 

[daveman]

All governments lie; however, most Arabs have Al Jazeera to SHOW them the threats that Israel and the US present to poor and middle class Arabs from Iraq to Area C.

It's possible US opinion would change if we saw the same side of empire the Arabs see every night.

Al Jazeera lies to them too, you idiot.

This mouthbreather thinks Noam Chomsky is a fucking prophet. Do you really expect him to know how fucking laughable it is to champion al Jazeera as a news source?

Oh, not at all. George has made it quite clear he will mindlessly believe anything from anybody as long as it's anti-American.

 

[georgephillip]

George, how long are you going to ignore this? Chomsky is a war profiteer.

daveman:

As I said on page 5 post #66 I will continue supporting Noam for the same reason I'll continue quoting Einstein in spite of the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths his theory contributed to.

The Pentagon and Wall Street will continue the killing for profits as long as patriots like you (and Chomsky) dedicate decades of your lives to helping them do it.

It's a CLASS WAR, dman.

Noam and Al got some of it.

You're still in denial.

So, instead of condemning Chomsky for the same actions you condemn others for, you forgive him and praise him for those actions.

Gasp.

What a hypocrite you are.

How is Chomsky responsible for the misuse of his theories?
Do you blame Einstein for Hiroshima?

The fact that hired killers use genius to kill other people's children and grow rich from mass murder isn't something I feel the need to apologize for.

Why did you dedicate two decades of your life to helping the hired killers?

Hypocrite.

 

[daveman]

daveman:

As I said on page 5 post #66 I will continue supporting Noam for the same reason I'll continue quoting Einstein in spite of the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths his theory contributed to.

The Pentagon and Wall Street will continue the killing for profits as long as patriots like you (and Chomsky) dedicate decades of your lives to helping them do it.

It's a CLASS WAR, dman.

Noam and Al got some of it.

You're still in denial.

So, instead of condemning Chomsky for the same actions you condemn others for, you forgive him and praise him for those actions.

Gasp.

What a hypocrite you are.

How is Chomsky responsible for the misuse of his theories?
Do you blame Einstein for Hiroshima?

The fact that hired killers use genius to kill other people's children and grow rich from mass murder isn't something I feel the need to apologize for.

Why did you dedicate two decades of your life to helping the hired killers?

Hypocrite.

Are you saying Chomsky is so weak-willed he couldn't have refused to help the Pentagon?

 

[loosecannon]

Satan has been quoted more than almost anyone else. Let's all become Satanists.

nobody has ever quoted Satan. Even the bible doesn't list a single quote credited to Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. There is a little passage wherein Jesus speaks with a legion of spirits, none of which are identified as Satan.

Ooops.


Matthew 4
New International Version
The Temptation of Jesus

1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’a”

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’b”
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’c”

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’d”

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

you got me, so satan went from the most quoted person on earth to somebody quoted once.

 

[loosecannon]

Why would the Pentagon pay good money to be told that America is the source of all evil in the world?

Idiot.

Because the pentagon is tasked with bizarro missions like winning hearts and minds of insurgents, propaganda across the globe and information wars. You may not realize this but our propaganda, intel and espionage budget is considerably larger than our military hardware/military personnel/military installation bill. Something like 40% of the military is intel and propaganda tasked.

And Chomsky is a gold mine for propaganda specialists. Nobody decodes propaganda or distills it better.

Now you get to prove that that's what he does for the Pentagon.

NOTE: "Because I really really really really want it to be true" is not proof. You'll have to do better than your usual.

Why is the pentagon funding Chomsky's dept at MIT? Charity? Or because it serves them to do so?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

If Chomsky is not talking about applied linguistics, he is just one more bum at the end of the bar.

Except for the fact that he is perhaps the most respected of all American political science scholars.

EVERYBODY who understands Chomsky takes him seriously. So seriously that there are several folks who have made an entire career out of minimizing the impacts of Chomsky's message.

Which is sort of like saying he is the best smelling bum sleeping under the bridge

 

[Bullfighter]

There doesn't seem to be any disagreement with the claim that Chomsky is the eighth most widely quoted author in History.

Shakespeare, Freud, Marx, Chaucer, Cicero...Chomsky.

He's the only living member of an all time top ten list that begins with the Bible.

Whether you endorse his politics or not, it's hard to ignore his contributions.

You forgot God, but He takes the record for being the most misquoted in history!

 

[daveman]

nobody has ever quoted Satan. Even the bible doesn't list a single quote credited to Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. There is a little passage wherein Jesus speaks with a legion of spirits, none of which are identified as Satan.

Ooops.


Matthew 4
New International Version
The Temptation of Jesus

1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

4Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’a”

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’b”
7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’c”

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’d”

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

you got me, so satan went from the most quoted person on earth to somebody quoted once.

Perhaps you should do a little research before you make such absolute statements.