US Military Declares Christans, Jews, Muslims dangerous "extremists"

[Agent.Tom]

According to a new initiative within the US Military, all religious symbols and references to religious Scriptures are to be removed from view, even within their chapels. No crosses, no bible verses, nothing. And the attack isn't just on Christianity. The following list contains groups that the US Military considers potentially dangerous or hostile, and "extremist."

The problem I have with this is, the military defines "extremist" as "beyond ordinary," but about 85% of the US population fits into at least one of the categories. Our nation is about 15% Agnostic/Atheist. Judging by what is "normal" or "ordinary," I would say it's Agnosticism and Atheism that should be on the list.

Here's a partial list of potentially dangerous religious "extremists" according to the US military:

• Evangelical Christians
• Muslim Brotherhood
• Sunni Muslims
• Orthodox Jews
• Al Quaeda
• Hamas
• KKK
• Sri Ram Sene (Hindu Sect)
• Catholics
• Fundamentalist Christians
• Islamophobics

 

[Gardener]

don't believe it for a second.

 

[Agent.Tom]

I further submit--especially since 'Islamophobics' are considered extremists--that a good many Atheists must be extremists as well. There are countless Atheists (just look at this site alone) who are adamantly Christianophobic and/or Islamophobic and/or Jewophobic.

 

[Agent.Tom]

don't believe it for a second.

Care to explain? Are you saying I'm lying?

Here is a link to the Powerpoint Presentation being used by the military, from which I copied my partial list directly:

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ExtremismPresentation.pdf

... and here is the article I got the link from:

http://www.worldmag.com/2013/04/army_reserve_presentation_calls_christians_extremists

so... rather than just brand me a liar, why not look at the information and prove it false?

 

[Agent.Tom]

Funny how Gardener (an "anti-Zionist"/Jewophobe, no doubt... how ironic) brands the OP a lie, without even taking the 5 seconds to do a google search on the material which would have pulled up my information at the very top of the search.

 

[Gardener]

let me know when jewish, muslim, and christian chaplains are banned ffrom wearing their crosses, stars of david, and crescents.

 

[FA_Q2]

Have you ever been in the military Agent?

It seems that you do not understand the context or manner that these briefings exist within the military because you have completely blown this out of proportion.

Then there is this:

Extremism is a complex phenomenon; it is defined as beliefs, attitudes, feelings, actions, or
strategies of a character far removed from the “ordinary.” Because “ordinary” is subjective,
no religious group would label itself extreme or its doctrine “extremism.” However,
religious extremism is not limited to any single religion, ethnic group, or region of the
world; every religion has some followers that believe that their beliefs, customs and
traditions are the only “right way” and that all others are practicing their faith the “wrong
way,” seeing and believing that their faith/religion superior to all others.

as a subtext t the ‘list’ that you are referring to. Essentially, they are 100% correct. You are misunderstanding what they are getting at with this entire presentation.

You are also completely incorrect that religious symbols are not allowed. There is even a SPECIFIC religious symbol integrated onto the chaplain’s uniform:

That is a chaplain and as such, he holds services for all faiths and is a point of support for all faiths YET there is a cross on his uniform. Seems to me that the military has nothing against Christianity at all.

 

[PratchettFan]

According to a new initiative within the US Military, all religious symbols and references to religious Scriptures are to be removed from view, even within their chapels. No crosses, no bible verses, nothing. And the attack isn't just on Christianity. The following list contains groups that the US Military considers potentially dangerous or hostile, and "extremist."

The problem I have with this is, the military defines "extremist" as "beyond ordinary," but about 85% of the US population fits into at least one of the categories. Our nation is about 15% Agnostic/Atheist. Judging by what is "normal" or "ordinary," I would say it's Agnosticism and Atheism that should be on the list.

Here's a partial list of potentially dangerous religious "extremists" according to the US military:

• Evangelical Christians
• Muslim Brotherhood
• Sunni Muslims
• Orthodox Jews
• Al Quaeda
• Hamas
• KKK
• Sri Ram Sene (Hindu Sect)
• Catholics
• Fundamentalist Christians
• Islamophobics

So?

 

[Hollie]

I further submit--especially since 'Islamophobics' are considered extremists--that a good many Atheists must be extremists as well. There are countless Atheists (just look at this site alone) who are adamantly Christianophobic and/or Islamophobic and/or Jewophobic.

So, be honest. This thread was nothing more than a vehicle to use your fundamentalism to promote your message of hate.

 

[Agent.Tom]

I further submit--especially since 'Islamophobics' are considered extremists--that a good many Atheists must be extremists as well. There are countless Atheists (just look at this site alone) who are adamantly Christianophobic and/or Islamophobic and/or Jewophobic.

So, be honest. This thread was nothing more than a vehicle to use your fundamentalism to promote your message of hate.

No message of hate here. Though I understand how someone with your mindset would automatically jump to that conclusion. Sort of like the thief who always assumes everyone is trying to break into his house.

All I did was make a logical deduction. If anyone on that list is an "extremist," including Islamophobics... then Atheists--such as yourself--would obviously be defined as extremists as well. You're clearly just as phobic about Christians as anyone is about Muslims. In addition, according to the presentation, an "extremist" is defined as someone whose beliefs are beyond "ordinary." Again, Atheists like yourself must therefore also be defined as "extremist" because your beliefs are in the vast minority, i.e. less than ordinary.

But that was merely a sidebar. The point of the post--and the article--was that our US Military is in fact doing away with religious symbols and beginning to consider religious people as fanatical or "extremist." I was dismayed and somewhat shocked at what the article had to say. And though the detractors posted their opposing opinions, the fact is--according to World Magazine--that religious symbols are in fact being removed sight. Chaplains can still wear crosses on their collars, but they fear even then it's just a matter of time before that right is taken away.

Here is another supporting article that cites opinions from several prominent, high-ranking officers in the military, and they corroborate my allegations.

Holding the line

Military | Chaplains are pursuing their mission in a military suddenly hostile to Christianity and ready to suppress religious freedom

GREENVILLE, S.C.—This year: An Idaho Air Force base removes a painting called “Blessed Are the Peacemakers” because it references a Bible verse. The Air Force yanks off You-Tube a video tribute to first sergeants because its statement, “God created a first sergeant,” is “highly suggestive of the Book of Genesis in the Bible and has Christian overtones.”

Also this year: An Army Reserve training brief on hate groups declares that evangelical Christians and Roman Catholics are extremists as dangerous as al-Qaeda. A commander tells a chaplain to “stay in your lane” when he offers spiritual advice about the military’s exploding sexual assault problem.

Last year: A superior tells an Air Force major to remove from his desk the Bible he had kept there for 23 years. An Army lieutenant colonel instructs his subordinates to recognize the “religious right in America” as a domestic hate group like the KKK and Neo-Nazis. An Army master sergeant with 25 years of service faces punishment for serving Chick-fil-A sandwiches at his promotion party.

Two years ago: Christian prayers banned at veteran funeral services in Houston’s National Cemetery. Bibles temporarily banned at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. A Christian cross banned from a military chapel in Afghanistan [well whataya know, there is corroboration for my claim]. A chaplain called into his supervisor’s office and chewed out for closing a prayer with the words “In Jesus’ name.”

Coincidence that all these incidents occurred recently? About 80 military chaplains who gathered in South Carolina for a three-day conference last month didn’t think so. George Washington established the military chaplaincy, but Doug Lee, a retired Army chaplain who achieved the rank of brigadier general, told attendees, “You are in the military in a new era.”

The marginalization of Christianity in a military becoming more and more hostile to religion has left the chaplains feeling muzzled—and they now face same-sex couples coming to them for marriage counseling. The chaplains still get to wear crosses on their collars, so they worry even more about those Christians in regular uniforms losing the First Amendment freedom of religious expression that they volunteered to defend.

“We are at war,” said Chaplain Thomas MacGregor, a U.S. Army colonel. In June 2009, MacGregor bucked the trend by invoking Jesus’ name and proclaiming His resurrection during a prayer at the official Normandy ceremony honoring the 65th anniversary of D-Day. Several chaplains turned down the assignment, MacGregor said: “Be as wise as a serpent and as harmless as a dove … that is the rule of the thumb I give to my junior chaplains.”

This May, frustrated with the weight of evidence, Coast Guard Rear Admiral William Lee broke rank, throwing out his prepared text at Washington’s National Day of Prayer event (see video below).

“They expect us to check our religion in at the door—don’t bring that here,” Lee said. “Leaders like myself are feeling the constraints of rules and regulations and guidance issued by lawyers that put us in a tighter and tighter box regarding our constitutional right to express our religious faith."

read full article

 

[Agent.Tom]

Have you ever been in the military Agent?

It seems that you do not understand the context or manner that these briefings exist within the military because you have completely blown this out of proportion.

It's not me that's blowing anything out of proportion. Read the article above. I used tame language compared to Chaplain Colonel Thomas McGregor. The 80 military chaplains who attended the aforementioned conference obviously don't think I blew anything out of proportion. And Coast Guard Rear Admiral William Lee certainly agrees with what I'm talking about.

Your friend has a (hardly noticeable) cross on his uniform. That's great. The Christians in the military wonder--in light of the mountain of recent evidence--just how long that's going to last. Symbols are being removed from view. It's an ongoing process. It's not going to happen overnight and I didn't mean to suggest that it's already a done deal. It's an ongoing, real time "initiative."

 

[S.J.]

They list several Islamic groups as extremists, but if you fear the Islamic extremist groups, you are considered an extremist??? Un-fucking-believable.

 

[FA_Q2]

Have you ever been in the military Agent?

It seems that you do not understand the context or manner that these briefings exist within the military because you have completely blown this out of proportion.

It's not me that's blowing anything out of proportion. Read the article above. I used tame language compared to Chaplain Colonel Thomas McGregor. The 80 military chaplains who attended the aforementioned conference obviously don't think I blew anything out of proportion. And Coast Guard Rear Admiral William Lee certainly agrees with what I'm talking about.

Your friend has a (hardly noticeable) cross on his uniform. That's great. The Christians in the military wonder--in light of the mountain of recent evidence--just how long that's going to last. Symbols are being removed from view. It's an ongoing process. It's not going to happen overnight and I didn't mean to suggest that it's already a done deal. It's an ongoing, real time "initiative."

Yes, you are blowing the source briefing way out of proportion. Certainly, your language is mild compared to the article but the article is manure anyway in its presentation. Blowing it out of proportion less than the article is not saying much.

This ongoing removal of symbols is, again, false. That is not true. I stand here deployed at this very moment in a Muslim nation where observance of Ramadan is not only common but enforced by law and yet there is nothing limiting Christian expression or religious services. They are prevalent and every few months I am required to listen to another briefing that explains my religious freedom rights, the current services offered at the chapel and the responsibilities of the Chaplin himself (again, with a cross as part of his uniform) I really have to wonder where this ‘mountain’ of evidence is that you refer to. That mountain is more like an ant hill of random commands doing stupid shit.

The only real recent change has been that it has been codified that it is not acceptable to preach your religious convictions at your place of work. This was never allowed by the way but the DOD never got involved in that process as the local commands dealt with it. Five years ago, your religious freedoms were there but you were expected to know about them on your own. Now, there is a mandatory brief that is taken annually to remind you of your religious rights. Supervisors are required to take another that reminds them that they are NOT allowed to interfere with those rights of the members below them. If anything, religious freedoms have been IMPROVED over the last several years, not degraded.

As I said, I believe that you do not military experience to understand the context that this slide show was presented in or how we use those slide shows. The article and, by extension you in this thread, makes claims about the source material that is blatantly false. Statements like the following:

Army Reserve in Pennsylvania considers evangelical Christians, Catholics, and Mormons as dangerous as the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Qaeda, and Hamas

This statement is an outright fabrication as threat levels are never addressed in this briefing. There is no ‘greater threat’ addressed here, just the general threat posed by different groups. Further, that threat level may indeed be higher from Christian extremists than Al Qaeda in some areas of the world where Al Qaeda is not active but those Christian groups are active.

It is a wonder to me that Christians are capable of demanding that Muslims acknowledge and apologies for the violence and hate that is exercised in the name of that religion at the same time as ignoring completely the Christians also have terrorist groups. Sorry but the fact remains, there are Christian terrorists and they are a threat to military members stationed in various areas around the world.