US Bailout of Foriegn Countries

[Reidlr]

Due to the recent financial crash in Greece, the question has come up on whether or not the US should provide a "bailout" for a foriegn country. The question is a mute point.

The US contributes a larger percentage of funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) than any of the other 186 countries (see below link). Therefore, the US is going to provide a "bailout" to Greece anyway.

IMF Members' Quotas and Voting Power, and IMF Board of Governors

I propose a more pertinent question. Should the US, during our own economic crisis, contribute such a large percentage of funds to the IMF? IMO, our country should not contribute any funds to the IMF, but that is not realistic. The US is in this for the long haul whether the US public likes it or not. With that said, the IMF has developed a quota system that is determined by a formula. That formula has determined our current required quota.

The newly agreed quota formula is a weighted average of GDP (weight of 50 percent), openness (30 percent), economic variability (15 percent), and international reserves (5 percent).

Problem number one, a country's deficit is not considered in the quota formula. Also, 50% of the formula is GDP. Currently in the US, just over 40% of our GDP covers government run programs and therefore is not a true measure of our GDP. Our country is not in the position to be provided funds to any country, much less a country like Greece that has turned itself into a nanny state that essentially broke itself. The recent proposal by the European Union (EU) and IMF, is to hand Greece $145 billion in assistance funds. The IMF would contribute a total of $40 billion. Remember that the US is currently on tap to provide 17% of total funds to the IMF, thats $6.8 billion in US dollars to bailout a country of the EU. It gets worse, earlier this week the European Union (EU) proposed a $1 trillion "bailout" for Greece. Which would put the US on the hook for more tax payer money to assist Greece.

Yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) introduced an amendment to the financial regulatory reform bill, currently being debated in the Senate, that would bar American taxpayers from bailing out “irresponsible” foreign governments. This amendment should get support from bothsides of the eisle, but I doubt that will happen.

There are two reasons why Amercia should not be providing funds to support Greece.
1) Greece is a member of the EU! The EU is an economic competitor to the US. Would Microsoft bailout Apple? I know much smaller scale, but still basic economics. 2) We can't afford it!

Your thoughts!

 

[william the wie]

You left out the fact that saving Greece will reduce world GDP as Portugal, Ireland, possibly Spain, Italy and the UK also demand bailouts. All told figure on a 3T hit as countries demand to be bailees instead of bailers. Expelling Greece from the EU is the least loss policy. So current policy is stupid in ways you have not mentioned.

 

[52ndStreet]

If Europe collaspes, that will hurt American exports to Europe, thus hurting our economy. We would be in a position of reduced export revenue, as Europe buys a lot of American technology, ie ,computers,
and many spare parts for computers, machines , aircraft, ect,ect.

So it is in the best interests of America to help their economies, although they are a competitor.
They are also consumers of American products and services.

 

[william the wie]

If Europe collaspes, that will hurt American exports to Europe, thus hurting our economy. We would be in a position of reduced export revenue, as Europe buys a lot of American technology, ie ,computers,
and many spare parts for computers, machines , aircraft, ect,ect.

So it is in the best interests of America to help their economies, although they are a competitor.
They are also consumers of American products and services.

Actually not on a net basis the EU gone would help the US economy.

 

[Eccgmike]

Due to the recent financial crash in Greece, the question has come up on whether or not the US should provide a "bailout" for a foriegn country. The question is a mute point.

The US contributes a larger percentage of funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) than any of the other 186 countries (see below link). Therefore, the US is going to provide a "bailout" to Greece anyway.

IMF Members' Quotas and Voting Power, and IMF Board of Governors

I propose a more pertinent question. Should the US, during our own economic crisis, contribute such a large percentage of funds to the IMF? IMO, our country should not contribute any funds to the IMF, but that is not realistic. The US is in this for the long haul whether the US public likes it or not. With that said, the IMF has developed a quota system that is determined by a formula. That formula has determined our current required quota.

The newly agreed quota formula is a weighted average of GDP (weight of 50 percent), openness (30 percent), economic variability (15 percent), and international reserves (5 percent).

Problem number one, a country's deficit is not considered in the quota formula. Also, 50% of the formula is GDP. Currently in the US, just over 40% of our GDP covers government run programs and therefore is not a true measure of our GDP. Our country is not in the position to be provided funds to any country, much less a country like Greece that has turned itself into a nanny state that essentially broke itself. The recent proposal by the European Union (EU) and IMF, is to hand Greece $145 billion in assistance funds. The IMF would contribute a total of $40 billion. Remember that the US is currently on tap to provide 17% of total funds to the IMF, thats $6.8 billion in US dollars to bailout a country of the EU. It gets worse, earlier this week the European Union (EU) proposed a $1 trillion "bailout" for Greece. Which would put the US on the hook for more tax payer money to assist Greece.

Yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) introduced an amendment to the financial regulatory reform bill, currently being debated in the Senate, that would bar American taxpayers from bailing out “irresponsible” foreign governments. This amendment should get support from bothsides of the eisle, but I doubt that will happen.

There are two reasons why Amercia should not be providing funds to support Greece.
1) Greece is a member of the EU! The EU is an economic competitor to the US. Would Microsoft bailout Apple? I know much smaller scale, but still basic economics. 2) We can't afford it!

Your thoughts!

First of all I disagree with the premise that we must help our neighbors out or it will cause us financial strife, we are ALREADY in dire straits as we have no money! You don't loan your neighbor money after he spends money like a drunken sailor for years especially when u don't have any money because you yourself have been spending money like an entire aircraft carrier fleet of drunken sailors. Regardless of all the technical goblygook that everyone throws at this situation to try to justify the bailout, we need to bring our own house into fiscal sanity before we help ANYBODY else out. But we're not even doing that! We're spending money WE DONT HAVE at breakneck, unprecidented speed! To make it even worse, the EU had originally put together a bailout package of $600 billion, which would have made our share about $28 billion, but our fearless leader, fiscal genius that he is, called Menkel, Prime Minister of Germany (basically the bank of the EU) and insisted that it needed to be AT LEAST $1 trillion!!! Now why do you think he did that?? Even the left wing media ie: Brian Williams in this instance, told David Letterman that "the dirty little secret is that NOBODY has any money, and the Emporer has no clothes"!! We need to wake up and start throwing these 60's radicals out of office, and quick, fast, and in a hurry because we are circleling the drain and when the shit hits the fan everyone that's not paying attention is going to be saying "how did thus happen", "I never saw it coming" well there ARE people that have seen this coming, and have been sounding the alarm bell for at least two years or better!! But the left wing media has labeled them as "conspiracy theorists" and "crazy right wing nut-jobs"!! But if you go to the New York Times, even THEY are finally starting to get it!! If we trully love this country, we need to pull our collective head out of our ass and throw these idiots out on their ass'es before it IS too late!!

 

[industry7]

I agree with Eccgmike. Too many Americans are focused on fixing the problems of other countries when we already have more problems here at home then we can handle.

 

[peter]

If Europe collaspes, that will hurt American exports to Europe, thus hurting our economy. We would be in a position of reduced export revenue, as Europe buys a lot of American technology, ie ,computers,
and many spare parts for computers, machines , aircraft, ect,ect.

So it is in the best interests of America to help their economies, although they are a competitor.
They are also consumers of American products and services.

One note here: euro is already lower (1 euro = $1.24), so it hurts us even now. I don't expect euro to strenghten any time soon.

 

[Reidlr]

If Europe collaspes, that will hurt American exports to Europe, thus hurting our economy. We would be in a position of reduced export revenue, as Europe buys a lot of American technology, ie ,computers,
and many spare parts for computers, machines , aircraft, ect,ect.

So it is in the best interests of America to help their economies, although they are a competitor.
They are also consumers of American products and services.

One note here: euro is already lower (1 euro = $1.24), so it hurts us even now. I don't expect euro to strenghten any time soon.

Greece's only hope is to attempt to voluntarily withdraw from the eurozone and create their own currency. As Greece continues on a downward spiral the euro will only continue to lesson in value. As the euro drops so does the local economies of all the other EU countries in the eurozone. Greece is only the first domino! Which is another reason why we shouldn't give the EU or the IMF anymore funds, but our federal government will not do that and we will continue to go further into the red!

 

[Reidlr]

Due to the recent financial crash in Greece, the question has come up on whether or not the US should provide a "bailout" for a foriegn country. The question is a mute point.

The US contributes a larger percentage of funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) than any of the other 186 countries (see below link). Therefore, the US is going to provide a "bailout" to Greece anyway.

IMF Members' Quotas and Voting Power, and IMF Board of Governors

I propose a more pertinent question. Should the US, during our own economic crisis, contribute such a large percentage of funds to the IMF? IMO, our country should not contribute any funds to the IMF, but that is not realistic. The US is in this for the long haul whether the US public likes it or not. With that said, the IMF has developed a quota system that is determined by a formula. That formula has determined our current required quota.

The newly agreed quota formula is a weighted average of GDP (weight of 50 percent), openness (30 percent), economic variability (15 percent), and international reserves (5 percent).

Problem number one, a country's deficit is not considered in the quota formula. Also, 50% of the formula is GDP. Currently in the US, just over 40% of our GDP covers government run programs and therefore is not a true measure of our GDP. Our country is not in the position to be provided funds to any country, much less a country like Greece that has turned itself into a nanny state that essentially broke itself. The recent proposal by the European Union (EU) and IMF, is to hand Greece $145 billion in assistance funds. The IMF would contribute a total of $40 billion. Remember that the US is currently on tap to provide 17% of total funds to the IMF, thats $6.8 billion in US dollars to bailout a country of the EU. It gets worse, earlier this week the European Union (EU) proposed a $1 trillion "bailout" for Greece. Which would put the US on the hook for more tax payer money to assist Greece.

Yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) introduced an amendment to the financial regulatory reform bill, currently being debated in the Senate, that would bar American taxpayers from bailing out “irresponsible” foreign governments. This amendment should get support from bothsides of the eisle, but I doubt that will happen.

There are two reasons why Amercia should not be providing funds to support Greece.
1) Greece is a member of the EU! The EU is an economic competitor to the US. Would Microsoft bailout Apple? I know much smaller scale, but still basic economics. 2) We can't afford it!

Your thoughts!

First of all I disagree with the premise that we must help our neighbors out or it will cause us financial strife, we are ALREADY in dire straits as we have no money! You don't loan your neighbor money after he spends money like a drunken sailor for years especially when u don't have any money because you yourself have been spending money like an entire aircraft carrier fleet of drunken sailors. Regardless of all the technical goblygook that everyone throws at this situation to try to justify the bailout, we need to bring our own house into fiscal sanity before we help ANYBODY else out. But we're not even doing that! We're spending money WE DONT HAVE at breakneck, unprecidented speed! To make it even worse, the EU had originally put together a bailout package of $600 billion, which would have made our share about $28 billion, but our fearless leader, fiscal genius that he is, called Menkel, Prime Minister of Germany (basically the bank of the EU) and insisted that it needed to be AT LEAST $1 trillion!!! Now why do you think he did that?? Even the left wing media ie: Brian Williams in this instance, told David Letterman that "the dirty little secret is that NOBODY has any money, and the Emporer has no clothes"!! We need to wake up and start throwing these 60's radicals out of office, and quick, fast, and in a hurry because we are circleling the drain and when the shit hits the fan everyone that's not paying attention is going to be saying "how did thus happen", "I never saw it coming" well there ARE people that have seen this coming, and have been sounding the alarm bell for at least two years or better!! But the left wing media has labeled them as "conspiracy theorists" and "crazy right wing nut-jobs"!! But if you go to the New York Times, even THEY are finally starting to get it!! If we trully love this country, we need to pull our collective head out of our ass and throw these idiots out on their ass'es before it IS too late!!

By no means am I advocating supporting the EU or the IMF! I hope you don't think that just because we vote out the Democrats this funding will stop! Our government as a whole has sent us into this financial crisis and it isn't going to matter which party is in control!

 

[william the wie]

A major problem is that elections in Britain and Germany have probably killed the bailout but Trichet over at the ECB will not simply admit that this is the case. So the band will play on to the tune of "rinse and repeat".

 

[Toro]

The reason for this bailout is simple - to bail out German and French banks. The US and European governments are terrified of a replay of the collapse of Lehman, which precipitated the financial meltdown.

But this is what the IMF does. They have been doing this type of financing for decades.

In the long-run, however, the eurozone as is is not tenable. It has to be reformed.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We have our own Greece. California.

 

[editec]

I don't know.

You're not going to read me saying that very often, so I thought I'd give you a chance to see what that's like.

Truly, I don't know if the collapse of Greece and possibly the EU is something:

1 That we can afford to sto[

2. That we can stop even if we could afford it.​

The same kinds of economic problems this nation is facing, the rest of Europe is facing.

The real solution is for the bond holders of national debt to take haircut.

But as that class has all the power to prevent government from allowing that to happen, I expect that isn't gonna happen.

 

[MaggieMae]

Due to the recent financial crash in Greece, the question has come up on whether or not the US should provide a "bailout" for a foriegn country. The question is a mute point.

The US contributes a larger percentage of funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) than any of the other 186 countries (see below link). Therefore, the US is going to provide a "bailout" to Greece anyway.

IMF Members' Quotas and Voting Power, and IMF Board of Governors

I propose a more pertinent question. Should the US, during our own economic crisis, contribute such a large percentage of funds to the IMF? IMO, our country should not contribute any funds to the IMF, but that is not realistic. The US is in this for the long haul whether the US public likes it or not. With that said, the IMF has developed a quota system that is determined by a formula. That formula has determined our current required quota.

The newly agreed quota formula is a weighted average of GDP (weight of 50 percent), openness (30 percent), economic variability (15 percent), and international reserves (5 percent).

Problem number one, a country's deficit is not considered in the quota formula. Also, 50% of the formula is GDP. Currently in the US, just over 40% of our GDP covers government run programs and therefore is not a true measure of our GDP. Our country is not in the position to be provided funds to any country, much less a country like Greece that has turned itself into a nanny state that essentially broke itself. The recent proposal by the European Union (EU) and IMF, is to hand Greece $145 billion in assistance funds. The IMF would contribute a total of $40 billion. Remember that the US is currently on tap to provide 17% of total funds to the IMF, thats $6.8 billion in US dollars to bailout a country of the EU. It gets worse, earlier this week the European Union (EU) proposed a $1 trillion "bailout" for Greece. Which would put the US on the hook for more tax payer money to assist Greece.

Yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) introduced an amendment to the financial regulatory reform bill, currently being debated in the Senate, that would bar American taxpayers from bailing out “irresponsible” foreign governments. This amendment should get support from bothsides of the eisle, but I doubt that will happen.

There are two reasons why Amercia should not be providing funds to support Greece.
1) Greece is a member of the EU! The EU is an economic competitor to the US. Would Microsoft bailout Apple? I know much smaller scale, but still basic economics. 2) We can't afford it!

Your thoughts!

Good grief, another thread on this full of disinformation. Must be FAUXNews is promoting the idea that the United States is guaranteeing the IMF loan to Greece, when that is absolutely untrue.

And by the way, the word is moot, not mute.

Merge needed, to expose the truth, please:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-introduce-bill-to-prevent-euro-bailout.html

 

[52ndStreet]

This is one of the main reasons why people are becoming very weary of all this "Globalization hysteria"
This entire "Euro" and "Eurozone" Situation.
What we are all headed for at some point in the not to distant future, is a Global interconnected economic system, with a ticking global economic Time bomb attached to it.
This future situations will bankrupt many countries, and cause riots on a global scale.!
Many will be killed and the entire world will be thrown into societal, and economic chaos.!!
We must stop all this globalization, before it is to late. We do not need a global socialist, welfare state system of governments and economies.!!
Lets put a stop to this future now, while we still have a chance to stop it.!!!

 

[Reidlr]

Due to the recent financial crash in Greece, the question has come up on whether or not the US should provide a "bailout" for a foriegn country. The question is a mute point.

The US contributes a larger percentage of funds to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) than any of the other 186 countries (see below link). Therefore, the US is going to provide a "bailout" to Greece anyway.

IMF Members' Quotas and Voting Power, and IMF Board of Governors

I propose a more pertinent question. Should the US, during our own economic crisis, contribute such a large percentage of funds to the IMF? IMO, our country should not contribute any funds to the IMF, but that is not realistic. The US is in this for the long haul whether the US public likes it or not. With that said, the IMF has developed a quota system that is determined by a formula. That formula has determined our current required quota.

The newly agreed quota formula is a weighted average of GDP (weight of 50 percent), openness (30 percent), economic variability (15 percent), and international reserves (5 percent).

Problem number one, a country's deficit is not considered in the quota formula. Also, 50% of the formula is GDP. Currently in the US, just over 40% of our GDP covers government run programs and therefore is not a true measure of our GDP. Our country is not in the position to be provided funds to any country, much less a country like Greece that has turned itself into a nanny state that essentially broke itself. The recent proposal by the European Union (EU) and IMF, is to hand Greece $145 billion in assistance funds. The IMF would contribute a total of $40 billion. Remember that the US is currently on tap to provide 17% of total funds to the IMF, thats $6.8 billion in US dollars to bailout a country of the EU. It gets worse, earlier this week the European Union (EU) proposed a $1 trillion "bailout" for Greece. Which would put the US on the hook for more tax payer money to assist Greece.

Yesterday, Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) introduced an amendment to the financial regulatory reform bill, currently being debated in the Senate, that would bar American taxpayers from bailing out “irresponsible” foreign governments. This amendment should get support from bothsides of the eisle, but I doubt that will happen.

There are two reasons why Amercia should not be providing funds to support Greece.
1) Greece is a member of the EU! The EU is an economic competitor to the US. Would Microsoft bailout Apple? I know much smaller scale, but still basic economics. 2) We can't afford it!

Your thoughts!

Good grief, another thread on this full of disinformation. Must be FAUXNews is promoting the idea that the United States is guaranteeing the IMF loan to Greece, when that is absolutely untrue.

And by the way, the word is moot, not mute.

Merge needed, to expose the truth, please:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-introduce-bill-to-prevent-euro-bailout.html

I have pulled most of my information from BBC and the IMF website. Not fox news as you have so ignorantly assumed! By pointing out my misuse of the word mute and not providing any actual argument, I have to assume that you lack any real knowledge of the thread's topic. If you had read my original post you would have see that I also addressed the amendment proposed by the Republicans. The laws and regulations of the IMF, which all members have to agree to abide by, dictate that we are obligated to pay our portion (14%) of the amount the IMF is to give. That does not include any loan, "bailout" that the EU will provide to Greece. An EU bailout, not to include the IMF, and our contribution to that will be debated in our country. Hopefully, our politicians will vote to NOT send more of our funds to assist in the bailout of a EU country that is only a victim of its own devices!

 

[blu]

You left out the fact that saving Greece will reduce world GDP as Portugal, Ireland, possibly Spain, Italy and the UK also demand bailouts. All told figure on a 3T hit as countries demand to be bailees instead of bailers. Expelling Greece from the EU is the least loss policy. So current policy is stupid in ways you have not mentioned.

except when oru banks have to pay out on the deratives they took for and against and insuring greek debt. greek would collapse if kicked it

 

[georgephillip]

IMF packages are designed to force working European families to pay off the bad bets of international bankers. Workers are told to "tighten their belts" and cover the banks' bad loans through austerity measures and national sacrifice.

Another possibility would be forcing the banks to take their losses, which sounds a little like capitalism--at least the capitalism taught in schools and preached in op-eds.

As far as the Republican measure to block US taxpayer funded IMF contributions to the Greek "bailout", the Democratic leadership will do whatever Treasury wants, and Treasury will trip over itself doing whatever Wall Street banks want--

"And Wall Street banks are likely to see this as an issue of banker solidarity-this time the taxpayer-financed IMF slush fund is being used primarily to benefit European banks, but the next IMF bailout could primarily benefit New York banks.

"One hand washes the other."

 

[Neubarth]

The overall effort is to forestall global Depression. In the case of Greece our efforts are ill-conceived and ill-advised.

 

[Neubarth]

That does not include any loan, "bailout" that the EU will provide to Greece. An EU bailout, not to include the IMF, and our contribution to that will be debated in our country. Hopefully, our politicians will vote to NOT send more of our funds to assist in the bailout of a EU country that is only a victim of its own devices!

Sadly, Obama has asked Bernanke to step outside of the FED charter and assist Europe. Bernanke has done so and needs to undo his wrong which so far appears to only be promises to assist. We can not use the FED to assist the world, yet we have started to do so. Obama is the biggest shithead in the history of American politics.