US authorities should keep their hands from my bank data !

Discussion in 'Europe' started by germanguy, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. germanguy
    Offline

    germanguy VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    256
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Solar System/Earth/Europe/in the heart of it
    Ratings:
    +67
    The European Ministers of Interior will today vote about an agreement, which will give US authorities unlimited access to the banking data of the SWIFT.

    What makes me angry about it ?

    Via SWIFT most of the world-wide and inter-european money transfer from bank to bank are handled. As American Law Enforcement authorities took these data, when the SWIFT server was based in the US, SWIFT decided to move this server to Belgium.
    Now the european banking traffic goes via this server, which is inacceptable to the US, as they claim this data as important for the War on Terror.

    The European Interior Ministers will today decide, as the US demanded an formal agreement, if US Authorities will get unlimited access to these data and allowance to store them for a minimum of five years.

    I personally refuse this agreement totally.

    There are no safeguards whatsoever how long and to what purpose these data are used by the US.

    What do these data contain ?

    At minimum the name of the person or company who transfers money, the receiver, the amount, the date and the purpose of the transfer.

    If connected with other data, it pretty much gives the US a picture which person and even worse which company pays what for which purpose within the European Union.
    So these data can not only be used for the search for terror suspects, but also for industrial espionage.

    As we do not get any safeguard against misuse, I strongly reject the whole idea.

    I simply do not want any Law Enforcement Agency sniffing around in any data without a search warrant or being informed.

    So, as I doubt the US would give European Law Enforcement Agencies the same rights to sniff around in the banking details of US citizens, I am really furious about this.

    regards
    ze germanguy
     
  2. The Rabbi
    Offline

    The Rabbi Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    67,620
    Thanks Received:
    7,821
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Nashville
    Ratings:
    +18,215
    But you live with a government which represents the will of the people. How can you be against the will of the people??
    Besides, if you have nothing to hide then it isn't a problem. Right??
     
  3. germanguy
    Offline

    germanguy VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    256
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Solar System/Earth/Europe/in the heart of it
    Ratings:
    +67
    So, if you have nothing to hide either, you certainly welcome any search of your private property without any warrant. This is the most stupid remark I know.
    With that sentence anything can be justified.
    You are against the Patriot act ? Aren´t you a patriot ?
    You are against our anti-terror laws ? So you support terror ?
    This kind of logic justifies any restriction of citizen rights.

    No, the problem is that it is not my government sniffing around in my banking data, but a foreign government. In Germany I can let this control by a court or even sue my government for ignoring my basic rights. But in this case no german court can be adressed. And a US court neither, as they are not responsible.
    So, in this case all sides found a nice way to bypass my constitutional rights and this I do not like.

    Imagine your government would hand out your private data to Germany or Spain, without any justification, supervision or control by a US court. And in case the Germans find something interesting, US agencies will thankfully use it. But as the source is not under US jurisdiction you can neither counter check or even question it.

    So, under the umbrella of the War against Terror again our rights are restricted.
    I see this not as progress.

    regards
    ze germanguy
     
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  4. California Girl
    Offline

    California Girl BANNED

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    50,337
    Thanks Received:
    8,960
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ratings:
    +8,965
    Welcome to the New World Order, German Guy.

    Since living in the UK, I can't beleive the number of times I have heard Brits say 'if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem'. They may not see the problem, but I guess they are so used to their government telling them what do to that they are quickly losing the ability to think for themselves.

    I'm hoping to live in Germnay in a couple of years time.... It's an interesting country I think.... I just wish Europeans generally were a little less accepting of their governments trampling over their citizens.
     
  5. germanguy
    Offline

    germanguy VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    256
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Solar System/Earth/Europe/in the heart of it
    Ratings:
    +67
    Be welcome - already any idea where in Germany ?

    Go to the Rhine Area ! The very heart of Europe...

    regards
    ze germanguy
     
  6. Diuretic
    Offline

    Diuretic Permanently confused

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,653
    Thanks Received:
    1,397
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia est 1836
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    GG it could be that the authorities are using some sort of algorithm to look for patterns of movement in money that may suggest terrorist operations. I don't meant to be patronising but terrorism requires accountants as well as bomb-makers.
     
  7. Diuretic
    Offline

    Diuretic Permanently confused

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    12,653
    Thanks Received:
    1,397
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    South Australia est 1836
    Ratings:
    +1,397
    With you on the Rhine area, my favourite town when I visited there some years ago was Sankt Goar, really pretty, interesting castle too.
     
  8. The Rabbi
    Offline

    The Rabbi Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    67,620
    Thanks Received:
    7,821
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Nashville
    Ratings:
    +18,215
    OK so now you might be getting the idea of the difference between a citizen and a subject. Citizens have rights they defend, including the right to keep and bear arms. The state is not simply the will of the people but an entity to itself, with a desire for ever more power over its citizens, in the name of keeping them safe.
    This is why we have a Second Amendment in our country, along with a bill of rights. Every infringement on other rights began with restrictions on firearm ownership. This is simply a fact.
     
  9. Kevin_Kennedy
    Offline

    Kevin_Kennedy Defend Liberty

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    17,590
    Thanks Received:
    1,581
    Trophy Points:
    205
    Location:
    Ohio
    Ratings:
    +2,027
    Terrorism. Uh huh. What they're really looking for are U.S. citizens trying to protect their money from the U.S. government's over-taxation. Any European should be upset about this blatant violation of their liberty and right to privacy by a government that does not represent them.
     
  10. germanguy
    Offline

    germanguy VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2009
    Messages:
    256
    Thanks Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Solar System/Earth/Europe/in the heart of it
    Ratings:
    +67
    ROFL - who shall I shoot now ?

    No, I will do what I ever do: I will claim, that my constitutional rights are inflicted.
    And I will squeeze with others my MEP in Brussels. In nine month time, the European Parliament will have to approve this agreement and then we will see.

    And:
    Any restriction of constitutional rights began, when we - the citizens - were talked into fear of a supposed external threat. In the 50s, 60s and 70s it were "the communists", now "the Islam" or "the terrorists" are the ones we have to be afraid of.
    So, just to protect us, our rights and even worse the ideals we should stand for are slowly taken away from us.
    Just have a look what kind of restrictions the governments after 9/11 have installed.

    I can not see, that your precious 2nd amendment has prevented anything from these.

    But it is all to protect us.

    regards
    ze germanguy
     

Share This Page