US authorities should keep their hands from my bank data !

[The Rabbi]

Terrorism. Uh huh. What they're really looking for are U.S. citizens trying to protect their money from the U.S. government's over-taxation. Any European should be upset about this blatant violation of their liberty and right to privacy by a government that does not represent them.

There is no right to commit fraud.

But there is a right to privacy. Unless you want to posit that "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothig to worry about."

 

[The Rabbi]

I am no expert on Abortions, but the thing I wanted to say is that getting one is easier in Germany than even in the most liberal US states.

A point on abortion: While it's technically legal nationally, it's de facto illegal in most states.

So 1.2 million people a year are committing a crime and getting away with it??
Getoutatown!

 

[jillian]

None of which changes the nature of taxation. It is not voluntary, it is coercion with the threat of violence.

threat of violence?

no...

threat of jail?

yes...

if you don't want to pay taxes, perhaps you should go live in the woods, hunt for your food, and stay off of our roads, out of our schools, stop benefitting from agencies that protect your air/water/food and work environment...

oh yeah...and when you get too old to work, don't look to us to pay for your health care....

 

[The Rabbi]

Threat of violence, yes. If you resist both paying taxes and arrest you will get a visit from some heavily armed men. If that isn't a threat of violence, I don't know what is.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

None of which changes the nature of taxation. It is not voluntary, it is coercion with the threat of violence.

threat of violence?

no...

threat of jail?

yes...

if you don't want to pay taxes, perhaps you should go live in the woods, hunt for your food, and stay off of our roads, out of our schools, stop benefitting from agencies that protect your air/water/food and work environment...

oh yeah...and when you get too old to work, don't look to us to pay for your health care....

You don't think forcing me into a cell against my will and reserving the right to kill me if I attempt to defend myself is an act of violence? Then what is?

So another variation of the old "love it, or leave it" argument? Very big of you to keep your mind open to other points of view.

 

[Polk]

Terrorism. Uh huh. What they're really looking for are U.S. citizens trying to protect their money from the U.S. government's over-taxation. Any European should be upset about this blatant violation of their liberty and right to privacy by a government that does not represent them.

There is no right to commit fraud.

But there is a right to privacy. Unless you want to posit that "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothig to worry about."

The right to privacy doesn't protect illegal deeds. You can't murder someone and drag the body into your houses, then prevent the police from investigating and searching your home (with a warrant) by claiming the search violates your right to privacy.

 

[Polk]

I am no expert on Abortions, but the thing I wanted to say is that getting one is easier in Germany than even in the most liberal US states.

A point on abortion: While it's technically legal nationally, it's de facto illegal in most states.

So 1.2 million people a year are committing a crime and getting away with it??
Getoutatown!

You'd probably be able to make better arguments if you were able to read. I never said that abortion was a crime in any state. I said it was de facto illegal in most states, and it is. The procedure has to be performed by a doctor and in many states, the licensing requirements to perform the procedure are so strict that there are only a handful of providers in the whole state that do it. In Mississippi, for example, there is only one provider in the whole state.

 

[Diuretic]

None of which changes the nature of taxation. It is not voluntary, it is coercion with the threat of violence.

threat of violence?

no...

threat of jail?

yes...

if you don't want to pay taxes, perhaps you should go live in the woods, hunt for your food, and stay off of our roads, out of our schools, stop benefitting from agencies that protect your air/water/food and work environment...

oh yeah...and when you get too old to work, don't look to us to pay for your health care....

You don't think forcing me into a cell against my will and reserving the right to kill me if I attempt to defend myself is an act of violence? Then what is?

So another variation of the old "love it, or leave it" argument? Very big of you to keep your mind open to other points of view.

Don't like the response? Bad luck. If someone doesn't want to pay their fair share for being a member of an organised society then they have a couple of choices. Face the consequences or drop out completely and fend for themselves.

That's reality. It's all very well arguing that taxation is theft and that everything should be purchased as needed by the individual when needed. But when someone points out the obvious flaws in the argument sometimes you just have to accept it. No point trying to hide behind high dudgeon, it doesn't give you much cover and concealment.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

threat of violence?

no...

threat of jail?

yes...

if you don't want to pay taxes, perhaps you should go live in the woods, hunt for your food, and stay off of our roads, out of our schools, stop benefitting from agencies that protect your air/water/food and work environment...

oh yeah...and when you get too old to work, don't look to us to pay for your health care....

You don't think forcing me into a cell against my will and reserving the right to kill me if I attempt to defend myself is an act of violence? Then what is?

So another variation of the old "love it, or leave it" argument? Very big of you to keep your mind open to other points of view.

Don't like the response? Bad luck. If someone doesn't want to pay their fair share for being a member of an organised society then they have a couple of choices. Face the consequences or drop out completely and fend for themselves.

That's reality. It's all very well arguing that taxation is theft and that everything should be purchased as needed by the individual when needed. But when someone points out the obvious flaws in the argument sometimes you just have to accept it. No point trying to hide behind high dudgeon, it doesn't give you much cover and concealment.

My taxes are all in line, however. Just because I recognize that taxation is theft doesn't mean I need to go live in the woods. That's an argument for those that don't have an argument.

 

[The Rabbi]

A point on abortion: While it's technically legal nationally, it's de facto illegal in most states.

So 1.2 million people a year are committing a crime and getting away with it??
Getoutatown!

You'd probably be able to make better arguments if you were able to read. I never said that abortion was a crime in any state. I said it was de facto illegal in most states, and it is. The procedure has to be performed by a doctor and in many states, the licensing requirements to perform the procedure are so strict that there are only a handful of providers in the whole state that do it. In Mississippi, for example, there is only one provider in the whole state.

You wrote it was "de facto illegal". Illegal means doing the act is a crime. Perhaps a refresher course in the English language is in order.
But you could make the same argument about heart transplants. I guess those are "de facto illegal" in the U.S. as well.

 

[The Rabbi]

There is no right to commit fraud.

But there is a right to privacy. Unless you want to posit that "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothig to worry about."

The right to privacy doesn't protect illegal deeds. You can't murder someone and drag the body into your houses, then prevent the police from investigating and searching your home (with a warrant) by claiming the search violates your right to privacy.

No but the police do not have the power to enter your house any time they want on the off chance there is a dead body there.

 

[Alvin]

But there is a right to privacy. Unless you want to posit that "if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothig to worry about."

The right to privacy doesn't protect illegal deeds. You can't murder someone and drag the body into your houses, then prevent the police from investigating and searching your home (with a warrant) by claiming the search violates your right to privacy.

No but the police do not have the power to enter your house any time they want on the off chance there is a dead body there.

Unless they "Want to".

Probable cause etc.........

 

[JakeStarkey]

The government has the right to pursue financial crime wherever it goes. For those clients of the large Swiss bank that were exposed, I have two words -- very good.

 

[The Rabbi]

The right to privacy doesn't protect illegal deeds. You can't murder someone and drag the body into your houses, then prevent the police from investigating and searching your home (with a warrant) by claiming the search violates your right to privacy.

No but the police do not have the power to enter your house any time they want on the off chance there is a dead body there.

Unless they "Want to".

Probable cause etc.........

They need a search warrant. But I didnt see anything about a warrant to obtain bank records.

 

[Toronado3800]

Taxation is a contribution, by force, to the state, not to society.

Well then don't go getting caught using a highway. They're built with tax dollars and deficit spending

************
Politicalchic I think we agree on this. It is just going too far.

 

[The Rabbi]

Taxation is a contribution, by force, to the state, not to society.

Well then don't go getting caught using a highway. They're built with tax dollars and deficit spending

How is that in any way a refutation of the notion that taxation is a forced contribution?
And what percentage of tax money goes to things that people commonly use, like roads, and how much to things that most people do not use, like WIC?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Taxation, in the American republic and by the Constitution, is a governmental right granted to it by the charter. Don't argue that it is somehow immoral, unethical, or illegal, Rab. It is not.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Taxation is a contribution, by force, to the state, not to society.

Well then don't go getting caught using a highway. They're built with tax dollars and deficit spending

************
Politicalchic I think we agree on this. It is just going too far.

So you couldn't refute this simple fact either?

 

[The Rabbi]

Taxation, in the American republic and by the Constitution, is a governmental right granted to it by the charter. Don't argue that it is somehow immoral, unethical, or illegal, Rab. It is not.

Do you see me arguing any of those points? Please point out where I did.
I merely agreed that taxation is done under duress and threat of violence. This seem obvious.

 

[Polk]

So 1.2 million people a year are committing a crime and getting away with it??
Getoutatown!

You'd probably be able to make better arguments if you were able to read. I never said that abortion was a crime in any state. I said it was de facto illegal in most states, and it is. The procedure has to be performed by a doctor and in many states, the licensing requirements to perform the procedure are so strict that there are only a handful of providers in the whole state that do it. In Mississippi, for example, there is only one provider in the whole state.

You wrote it was "de facto illegal". Illegal means doing the act is a crime. Perhaps a refresher course in the English language is in order.
But you could make the same argument about heart transplants. I guess those are "de facto illegal" in the U.S. as well.

Except that the laws governing the provision of abortion aren't based on any sort of medical guidelines. They're designed to deny access.