Unpaid Internships under attack

[dblack]

In the medical field, you are not paid during clinicals. My daughter puts in 3 to 4 12 hour days a week.
She is late in her training, so she does the same exact work as licensed respiratory therapist.
The hospital gets the benefit of her service at no cost, to which I bet my house they bill for.
Unfair?
Hell no. The program my daughter is in has 100% graduation placement. 100%.
Her payment is a lifetime of solid wages based on the experience gained during clinicals.

I still think it is abusive to demand free labor even for a lucrative field

What I see many of these firms doing in a bad job environment is to bring in a flock of unpaid interns with a faint hope of future employment and leaving them with no more than an unenthusiastic job reference in the end

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

 

[percysunshine]

What...no Monica jokes yet?

Y'all are getting lazy....

 

[Pop23]

I still think it is abusive to demand free labor even for a lucrative field

What I see many of these firms doing in a bad job environment is to bring in a flock of unpaid interns with a faint hope of future employment and leaving them with no more than an unenthusiastic job reference in the end

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

Lets not change definitions.

 

[percysunshine]

Soooo...if the intern is not a groupie, not paid, not learning anything, and not an idiot, what is left?

The only thing I can imagine is that they can put the job on their resume and pretend they learned something. Which is dishonest.

I am having trouble ginning up much sympathy for these interns. Someone help me out.

 

[rightwinger]

I still think it is abusive to demand free labor even for a lucrative field

What I see many of these firms doing in a bad job environment is to bring in a flock of unpaid interns with a faint hope of future employment and leaving them with no more than an unenthusiastic job reference in the end

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

Volunteer organizations are not making a profit off your labor

 

[dblack]

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

Volunteer organizations are not making a profit off your labor

Ok. So you just want to make it illegal to volunteer for an organization that makes a profit. Still, why? Where do you, or rather where does the government, get off telling other people how they can apply their labor?

I guess this will shut down the weekly open-mike down at our local coffeeshop.

 

[squeeze berry]

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

Lets not change definitions.

did the interns understand they would not be paid?

If so, how can they have any claim?????

 

[squeeze berry]

I have to agree, no one that works should EVER be paid ZERO.

So much for volunteering.

Volunteer organizations are not making a profit off your labor

my mom volunteered at the hospital for years.

Does she have a claim for back wages?

 

[rightwinger]

So much for volunteering.

Lets not change definitions.

did the interns understand they would not be paid?

If so, how can they have any claim?????

They have a claim under unfair labor laws. These internships are supposed to benefit the intern not the employer. The employer could not prove that the intern was anything but a menial employee. As such, the intern should be paid for his labor

 

[dblack]

Lets not change definitions.

did the interns understand they would not be paid?

If so, how can they have any claim?????

They have a claim under unfair labor laws.

Which proves just how unfair the labor laws are. An employee can voluntarily enter into a work agreement with an someone else, and then prosecute them after the fact for conditions and pay (or lack thereof) that they agreed to. That doesn't seem the slightest bit fucked up to you?

I could see a claim if they can point to promises, implied or otherwise, that were not kept. But reneging on something they agreed to is the real unfairness here.

 

[Pop23]

did the interns understand they would not be paid?

If so, how can they have any claim?????

They have a claim under unfair labor laws.

Which proves just how unfair the labor laws are. An employee can voluntarily enter into a work agreement with an someone else, and then prosecute them after the fact for conditions and pay (or lack thereof) that they agreed to. That doesn't seem the slightest bit fucked up to you?

I could see a claim if they can point to promises, implied or otherwise, that were not kept. But reneging on something they agreed to is the real unfairness here.

Let's say your boss comes up to you and says that, after you worked your 40 hours, there is an "internship" at another part of the business that YOU should "volunteer" 10 hours a week for. Of course it would be with no pay. That would be OK, Right?

 

[dblack]

They have a claim under unfair labor laws.

Which proves just how unfair the labor laws are. An employee can voluntarily enter into a work agreement with an someone else, and then prosecute them after the fact for conditions and pay (or lack thereof) that they agreed to. That doesn't seem the slightest bit fucked up to you?

I could see a claim if they can point to promises, implied or otherwise, that were not kept. But reneging on something they agreed to is the real unfairness here.

Let's say your boss comes up to you and says that, after you worked your 40 hours, there is an "internship" at another part of the business that YOU should "volunteer" 10 hours a week for. Of course it would be with no pay. That would be OK, Right?

Sure. He's free to ask for anything he wants out of me. Just as I'm free to ask him for a raise. In either case, if we can't come to an agreement, we're both free to walk away.

 

[Pop23]

Which proves just how unfair the labor laws are. An employee can voluntarily enter into a work agreement with an someone else, and then prosecute them after the fact for conditions and pay (or lack thereof) that they agreed to. That doesn't seem the slightest bit fucked up to you?

I could see a claim if they can point to promises, implied or otherwise, that were not kept. But reneging on something they agreed to is the real unfairness here.

Let's say your boss comes up to you and says that, after you worked your 40 hours, there is an "internship" at another part of the business that YOU should "volunteer" 10 hours a week for. Of course it would be with no pay. That would be OK, Right?

Sure. He's free to ask for anything he wants out of me. Just as I'm free to ask him for a raise. In either case, if we can't come to an agreement, we're both free to walk away.

And it would be Ok if he fired you for failing to volunteer?

Ones subordinate to the other. Nope I'm not ok with that.

 

[dblack]

Let's say your boss comes up to you and says that, after you worked your 40 hours, there is an "internship" at another part of the business that YOU should "volunteer" 10 hours a week for. Of course it would be with no pay. That would be OK, Right?

Sure. He's free to ask for anything he wants out of me. Just as I'm free to ask him for a raise. In either case, if we can't come to an agreement, we're both free to walk away.

And it would be Ok if he fired you for failing to volunteer?

Of course. Just as it would be Ok for me to quit if he refused to give me a raise.

Ones subordinate to the other. Nope I'm not ok with that.

"Ordinate" is subjective. If the boss needs my labor, and can't find a replacement - he's subordinate to me.

 

[Pop23]

Sure. He's free to ask for anything he wants out of me. Just as I'm free to ask him for a raise. In either case, if we can't come to an agreement, we're both free to walk away.

And it would be Ok if he fired you for failing to volunteer?

Of course. Just as it would be Ok for me to quit if he refused to give me a raise.

Ones subordinate to the other. Nope I'm not ok with that.

"Ordinate" is subjective. If the boss needs my labor, and can't find a replacement - he's subordinate to me.

Sorry Susie, daddy can't pay for college cause I refused to volunteer!

Under your example there would be more than enough replacements for you.

I am a libertarian, but a pragmatic one. There is a place for government protection of tax paying citizens. One of those protections should be the labor that creates the tax.

 

[percysunshine]

I am glad I live in a right to work state. The government does not screw around with the private labor market, pricing out jobs in the process.

New York reaps the trouble it sows.

 

[depotoo]

many government internships are unpaid.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

In the medical field, you are not paid during clinicals. My daughter puts in 3 to 4 12 hour days a week.
She is late in her training, so she does the same exact work as licensed respiratory therapist.
The hospital gets the benefit of her service at no cost, to which I bet my house they bill for.
Unfair?
Hell no. The program my daughter is in has 100% graduation placement. 100%.
Her payment is a lifetime of solid wages based on the experience gained during clinicals.

I still think it is abusive to demand free labor even for a lucrative field

What I see many of these firms doing in a bad job environment is to bring in a flock of unpaid interns with a faint hope of future employment and leaving them with no more than an unenthusiastic job reference in the end

Some might say it is abusive for the hospital to not receive payment for training the students.
It is a trade off, the student gets much needed real world experience and real patient training to - and the hospital gets a few months of their labor in the deal.
Both win.

 

[rightwinger]

In the medical field, you are not paid during clinicals. My daughter puts in 3 to 4 12 hour days a week.
She is late in her training, so she does the same exact work as licensed respiratory therapist.
The hospital gets the benefit of her service at no cost, to which I bet my house they bill for.
Unfair?
Hell no. The program my daughter is in has 100% graduation placement. 100%.
Her payment is a lifetime of solid wages based on the experience gained during clinicals.

I still think it is abusive to demand free labor even for a lucrative field

What I see many of these firms doing in a bad job environment is to bring in a flock of unpaid interns with a faint hope of future employment and leaving them with no more than an unenthusiastic job reference in the end

Some might say it is abusive for the hospital to not receive payment for training the students.
It is a trade off, the student gets much needed real world experience and real patient training to - and the hospital gets a few months of their labor in the deal.
Both win.

I don't mind an unpaid internship where they assign you a mentor who is spending significant time to train you. What I see is you are brought in with a vague promise of future employment. You are told that if you work your butt off there is a pot of gold at the end of he rainbow. At the end of three months you are shown the door with no job and no pay for your effort