Unions Suffer Deathblow after Wisconsin Supreme Court Ruling

[The Rabbi]

Get rid of police and firemen unions also, if you really believe that public employees should have no collective bargaining rights. It's not fair to condemn some and not all in the same group. That will be the issue when this is presented to the US Supreme Court..

That's the point. Driving wages, benefits, and working conditions down so employers can make more $$$.

How about paying productive people more than unproductive people.

It seems as productivity has risen, wages have been stagnant. It's a fact that in Real Dollars, a non supervisory worker made more in 1979 than they do now.

Do you know any non supervisory workers who were working in 1979? Have you asked them whether they are making less money now than they did 35 years ago? Would you believe them if they said yes?

 

[Vigilante]

Act 10, the WISC. LAW pushed through by Gov. Walker has given government officials far greater freedom to make budgetary decisions, allowing the state and its 72 counties and more than 440 school districts to save $2 billion. Beyond that, he says, the law has enabled school districts to fire ineffective teachers, hire more qualified ones and adopt pay-for-performance policies.....To bad for state employees, GREAT for the Wisc. citizens, saving BILLIONS!

 

[kiwiman127]

How about paying productive people more than unproductive people.

It seems as productivity has risen, wages have been stagnant. It's a fact that in Real Dollars, a non supervisory worker made more in 1979 than they do now.

Do you know any non supervisory workers who were working in 1979? Have you asked them whether they are making less money now than they did 35 years ago? Would you believe them if they said yes?

The chart I posted is based on BLS numbers, so we are talking facts.
Now prove your point or are you going to A, change the subject or B, start calling me names?

 

[The Rabbi]

It seems as productivity has risen, wages have been stagnant. It's a fact that in Real Dollars, a non supervisory worker made more in 1979 than they do now.

Do you know any non supervisory workers who were working in 1979? Have you asked them whether they are making less money now than they did 35 years ago? Would you believe them if they said yes?

The chart I posted is based on BLS numbers, so we are talking facts.
Now prove your point or are you going to A, change the subject or B, start calling me names?

The chart you posted is utter bullshit. Learn the difference.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And Carbine, if I may add, this isn't about salaries or jobs. This was about protecting the children. Their education has most likely been damaged or even hindered because the teachers thought more of their pocketbooks than the futures of our next generation. How utterly avaricious of them.

Oh really. So paying teachers less and giving them fewer benefits and less job security is going to attract more and better people into the teaching profession?

Where did you learn that sort of lunacy?

 

[kiwiman127]

Both. That's pretty well established. When unions move in they raise wages. For union workers. For non union workers their wages go down. I'll take more people working for slightly less over fewer people working for much more.

I would love to see your evidence Rabbi. Cough it up.
I know you love charts, so here you go.

Wow. You're a trip. I maintain constantly that you cannot read graphs and charts. And then you go and prove me right. Even when I didnt challenge you.
Go read Thomas Sowell, who provides the evidence. Unions raise wages for union members but depress wages for non union members. It only makes sense.

I asked you to back up your statement and as usual, you won't. Everybody knows you pull that bullshit all the time. I want documented facts, not an opinion. I provided a chart based on the Commerce Departments numbers. You? Nothing but the same old shit you're famous for, you provide nothing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

In 2011, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker signed Act 10, a law effectively ending collective bargaining among teachers unions there. It gave rise to massive protests, recall elections, teacher strikes and Democratic State Senators abandoning their posts during the bill's passage. Today, the Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled 5-2 to uphold Act 10 in it's entirety, effectively ending the fight that began three years ago.

Wisconsin Supreme Court upholds 2011 union law

What do you think are the positive consequences of breaking labor unions?

Better jobs? Better paying jobs?

Both. That's pretty well established. When unions move in they raise wages. For union workers. For non union workers their wages go down. I'll take more people working for slightly less over fewer people working for much more.

Of course you would. So Wisconsin has increased its public sector workforce since this law went into effect?

 

[The Rabbi]

I would love to see your evidence Rabbi. Cough it up.
I know you love charts, so here you go.

Wow. You're a trip. I maintain constantly that you cannot read graphs and charts. And then you go and prove me right. Even when I didnt challenge you.
Go read Thomas Sowell, who provides the evidence. Unions raise wages for union members but depress wages for non union members. It only makes sense.

I asked you to back up your statement and as usual, you won't. Everybody knows you pull that bullshit all the time. I want documented facts, not an opinion. I provided a chart based on the Commerce Departments numbers. You? Nothing but the same old shit you're famous for, you provide nothing.

I gave you my source. Go look it up for yourself.
You provided nothing but bullshyit.

What exactly do you think your chart shows? This ought to be good.

 

[kiwiman127]

Do you know any non supervisory workers who were working in 1979? Have you asked them whether they are making less money now than they did 35 years ago? Would you believe them if they said yes?

The chart I posted is based on BLS numbers, so we are talking facts.
Now prove your point or are you going to A, change the subject or B, start calling me names?

The chart you posted is utter bullshit. Learn the difference.

A chart using the Department of Labor monthly statistics that are used by Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine, the Economist and by economist in general is "utter bullshit"?
You're doing a bang up job of exposing your ineptitude, as usual.

 

[The Rabbi]

The chart I posted is based on BLS numbers, so we are talking facts.
Now prove your point or are you going to A, change the subject or B, start calling me names?

The chart you posted is utter bullshit. Learn the difference.

A chart using the Department of Labor monthly statistics that are used by Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine, the Economist and by economist in general is "utter bullshit"?
You're doing a bang up job of exposing your ineptitude, as usual.

It is utter bullshit.
Go ahead. Tell me what you think the chart shows.

 

[Lakhota]

Yep, the sooner all unions are busted the sooner everyone can get fast food wages.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yep, the sooner all unions are busted the sooner everyone can get fast food wages.

You dream at night of the day you can attain fast food wages.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well let's examine some of Rabbi's big public sector job gains for Wisconsin since the union-busting law went into effect, since he's claiming it's producing more public sector jobs in Wisconsin, albeit for less money:

1. From March 2014

Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show

Wisconsin was second in the nation in total job losses last month, a somewhat surprising development considering the state’s unemployment rate has reached its lowest level since November 2008.



Employers in Wisconsin shed an estimated 9,500 total public and private sector jobs in February, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported late last week.

Along with North Carolina (11,300 job losses) and Alaska (2,300 job losses), Wisconsin experienced a “statistically significant” decline in employment, according to a press release from the BLS.

The Wisconsin losses included an estimated 7,900 government jobs, 5,000 jobs in professional or business services and 2,200 in manufacturing.

Read more: Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show : Ct

2. From April 2012:

Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says

Of the 23,900 jobs lost in Wisconsin in that period, 17,900 were from the public sector

Read more: Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says : Wsj



Shall I continue?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The chart I posted is based on BLS numbers, so we are talking facts.
Now prove your point or are you going to A, change the subject or B, start calling me names?

The chart you posted is utter bullshit. Learn the difference.

A chart using the Department of Labor monthly statistics that are used by Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine, the Economist and by economist in general is "utter bullshit"?
You're doing a bang up job of exposing your ineptitude, as usual.

Rabbi's act isn't fooling anyone.

 

[westwall]

Yep, the sooner all unions are busted the sooner everyone can get fast food wages.

Thanks to the EPA and your favorite administration this country is swiftly changing from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy. Take a look at Vegas some time. It's an SEIU mecca....and there's no money in Vegas.

I have a friend who used to do trade shows all over the place and if it was a small show just catering to the Vegas population, he wouldn't bother to go because he knew that he would lose money on the trip because the general population in Vegas has no money.

 

[kiwiman127]

The chart you posted is utter bullshit. Learn the difference.

A chart using the Department of Labor monthly statistics that are used by Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine, the Economist and by economist in general is "utter bullshit"?
You're doing a bang up job of exposing your ineptitude, as usual.

It is utter bullshit.
Go ahead. Tell me what you think the chart shows.

What did I predict? And naturally you did exactly what I said you'd do. You made a claim, failed to provide anything that backs your claim. And of course, failed to disprove my claim.
Maybe you should try another board where nobody knows your name and your boring redundant bullshit. You will not be missed.

 

[westwall]

Well let's examine some of Rabbi's big public sector job gains for Wisconsin since the union-busting law went into effect, since he's claiming it's producing more public sector jobs in Wisconsin, albeit for less money:

1. From March 2014

Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show

Wisconsin was second in the nation in total job losses last month, a somewhat surprising development considering the state’s unemployment rate has reached its lowest level since November 2008.



Employers in Wisconsin shed an estimated 9,500 total public and private sector jobs in February, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported late last week.

Along with North Carolina (11,300 job losses) and Alaska (2,300 job losses), Wisconsin experienced a “statistically significant” decline in employment, according to a press release from the BLS.

The Wisconsin losses included an estimated 7,900 government jobs, 5,000 jobs in professional or business services and 2,200 in manufacturing.

Read more: Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show : Ct

2. From April 2012:

Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says

Of the 23,900 jobs lost in Wisconsin in that period, 17,900 were from the public sector

Read more: Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says : Wsj



Shall I continue?

Good. There are too many government workers as it is. They are a net drain on the economy.

 

[The Rabbi]

A chart using the Department of Labor monthly statistics that are used by Wall Street Journal, Forbes Magazine, the Economist and by economist in general is "utter bullshit"?
You're doing a bang up job of exposing your ineptitude, as usual.

It is utter bullshit.
Go ahead. Tell me what you think the chart shows.

What did I predict? And naturally you did exactly what I said you'd do. You made a claim, failed to provide anything that backs your claim. And of course, failed to disprove my claim.
Maybe you should try another board where nobody knows your name and your boring redundant bullshit. You will not be missed.

See, you cannot describe what the chart shows because you yourself are not confident you know. If you were confident you would easily have explained it. But you didnt. You deflected, as you always do. You failed to defend your own evidence because really you dont understand it and you're afraid of looking like a moron once I show you that the chart doesnt mean anything like what you thnk it means.

 

[Rikurzhen]

What do you think are the positive consequences of breaking labor unions?

Better jobs? Better paying jobs?

Yes. Money in society finds its best and most effective uses. Sweetheart deals negotiated with corrupt public service labor unions results in taxes being higher OR a reduction in other government services. This is suboptimum.

Now people have lower property taxes and they can use that money in ways that they find more optimum than paying higher taxes. Do you know many people who voluntarily send EXTRA money to government because they believe that this is the best way to spend their own money? Well, do ya, punk?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Well let's examine some of Rabbi's big public sector job gains for Wisconsin since the union-busting law went into effect, since he's claiming it's producing more public sector jobs in Wisconsin, albeit for less money:

1. From March 2014

Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show

Wisconsin was second in the nation in total job losses last month, a somewhat surprising development considering the state’s unemployment rate has reached its lowest level since November 2008.



Employers in Wisconsin shed an estimated 9,500 total public and private sector jobs in February, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported late last week.

Along with North Carolina (11,300 job losses) and Alaska (2,300 job losses), Wisconsin experienced a “statistically significant” decline in employment, according to a press release from the BLS.

The Wisconsin losses included an estimated 7,900 government jobs, 5,000 jobs in professional or business services and 2,200 in manufacturing.

Read more: Wisconsin 2nd in U.S. in job losses last month, new estimates show : Ct

2. From April 2012:

Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says

Of the 23,900 jobs lost in Wisconsin in that period, 17,900 were from the public sector

Read more: Wisconsin job losses highest in nation for last 12 months, federal report says : Wsj



Shall I continue?

Good. There are too many government workers as it is. They are a net drain on the economy.

That's not what Rabbi said. He said Wisconsin got rid of union rights so they could hire more public sector workers.

Of course he's the dumbest fuckwit on this forum.