UN action better be opposed by US

[P F Tinmore]

Rabbi posted before I could edit.

Israel has as well defined borders as any other nation. The facts are muddled at the moment, and need to be investigated by a relatively neutral party (Swiss). Acting like a retared lab monkey (PT, Gunny) doesn't help your argument at all.

Israel has no borders. Zero, Zip, none. It resides inside Palestine's defined and undisputed borders.

 

[Wry Catcher]

This entire matter is a made-up crisis. The potential for conflict between Isreal and Turkey - two U.S. allies - is a serious matter and not one which allows us and easy course of action. The entire region is a powder keg, from the Balkins through the middle east to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and involves the vitile interests of Russia, China and India as well as Britain and the U.S.
One might think that humanity had learned something from the 20th Century, obviously not.

Nope the rest of the world hates Jews, always has. And they are letting terrorists create a fake event.

None are so blind as those who will not see (the willfully ignorant). Was the shot fired by the terrorist at Archduke Francis Ferdinand at Sarajevo a "fake event"?

 

[Nik]

This entire matter is a made-up crisis. The potential for conflict between Isreal and Turkey - two U.S. allies - is a serious matter and not one which allows us and easy course of action. The entire region is a powder keg, from the Balkins through the middle east to Afghanistan and Pakistan, and involves the vitile interests of Russia, China and India as well as Britain and the U.S.
One might think that humanity had learned something from the 20th Century, obviously not.

Nope the rest of the world hates Jews, always has. And they are letting terrorists create a fake event.

Way to take a complex geopolitical situation and simplify it absurdly to anti-semitism.

If Tehran had blockaded a port against the protestors and bunch of activists tried to get in food and Iranian forces killed a bunch of them, you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Of course, Israel can get away with whatever the fuck it wants, eh?

 

[opfor]

Rabbi posted before I could edit.

Israel has as well defined borders as any other nation. The facts are muddled at the moment, and need to be investigated by a relatively neutral party (Swiss). Acting like a retared lab monkey (PT, Gunny) doesn't help your argument at all.

Israel has no borders. Zero, Zip, none. It resides inside Palestine's defined and undisputed borders.

I suppose you could make that argument, but it would apply to every other conquered nation to exist, and that's the rub. To the victor goes the spoils. In this case the right to claim your own nation, Palastine lost.

 

[Nik]

I LOVE how there is no middle ground on a message board.

Despite what you believe the entire world does not hate Israel, The Jewish People, and Judaism, but if you tell yourself that enoug I suppose you can believe it, just don't expect the rest of us too.

Israel is a real nation with as much right to exist and thrive

And defend itself. Which is what it was doing here.
But not everyone believes as you do. The idiot PF Tinmore has posted more than once that Israel is not a real country because he believes ludicrously that they have no defined borders.

Right. Defending itself against a shipment of humanitarian goods....is somehow self defense.

 

[Godboy]

Rabbi posted before I could edit.

Israel has as well defined borders as any other nation. The facts are muddled at the moment, and need to be investigated by a relatively neutral party (Swiss). Acting like a retared lab monkey (PT, Gunny) doesn't help your argument at all.

Israel has no borders. Zero, Zip, none. It resides inside Palestine's defined and undisputed borders.

I think you need to take a look at a world map. I assure you, Israel most definitely has borders. I cant say the same about Palestine.

How can you not feel embarrassed after making such a factually incorrect claim? Literally everything you just said is flat wrong. Dude, you dont know shit about geography, so quit pretending like you do.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rabbi posted before I could edit.

Israel has as well defined borders as any other nation. The facts are muddled at the moment, and need to be investigated by a relatively neutral party (Swiss). Acting like a retared lab monkey (PT, Gunny) doesn't help your argument at all.

Israel has no borders. Zero, Zip, none. It resides inside Palestine's defined and undisputed borders.

I think you need to take a look at a world map. I assure you, Israel most definitely has borders. I cant say the same about Palestine.

How can you not feel embarrassed after making such a factually incorrect claim? Literally everything you just said is flat wrong. Dude, you dont know shit about geography, so quit pretending like you do.

All the Maps you see of "Israel" are the 1949 armistice lines. It was specifically stated in the armistice agreements that they were NOT to be used as political or national borders. But since Israel has no borders people use those.

 

[The Rabbi]

I LOVE how there is no middle ground on a message board.

Despite what you believe the entire world does not hate Israel, The Jewish People, and Judaism, but if you tell yourself that enoug I suppose you can believe it, just don't expect the rest of us too.

Israel is a real nation with as much right to exist and thrive

And defend itself. Which is what it was doing here.
But not everyone believes as you do. The idiot PF Tinmore has posted more than once that Israel is not a real country because he believes ludicrously that they have no defined borders.

Right. Defending itself against a shipment of humanitarian goods....is somehow self defense.

Actyually no one knows what was on that shipment. Literally since we don't know who packed the stuff and put it on board. That was kind of the point. Israel offered to take the shipment, make sure everything was in fact humanitarian and bring it themselves to Gaza. But they were refused.

 

[Godboy]

Israel has no borders. Zero, Zip, none. It resides inside Palestine's defined and undisputed borders.

I think you need to take a look at a world map. I assure you, Israel most definitely has borders. I cant say the same about Palestine.

How can you not feel embarrassed after making such a factually incorrect claim? Literally everything you just said is flat wrong. Dude, you dont know shit about geography, so quit pretending like you do.

All the Maps you see of "Israel" are the 1949 armistice lines. It was specifically stated in the armistice agreements that they were NOT to be used as political or national borders. But since Israel has no borders people use those.

It amuses me when ignorant people say dumbass things. Do you believe in flying monkeys too?

 

[Nik]

And defend itself. Which is what it was doing here.
But not everyone believes as you do. The idiot PF Tinmore has posted more than once that Israel is not a real country because he believes ludicrously that they have no defined borders.

Right. Defending itself against a shipment of humanitarian goods....is somehow self defense.

Actyually no one knows what was on that shipment. Literally since we don't know who packed the stuff and put it on board. That was kind of the point. Israel offered to take the shipment, make sure everything was in fact humanitarian and bring it themselves to Gaza. But they were refused.

Actually Israel controls the shipment. If there was anything illegal on it, they would have said so.

The problem with your suggestion is twofold.

1) The protesters believe the blockade to be illegal.

2) Israel restricts a lot of material that has nothing to do with terrorism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And defend itself. Which is what it was doing here.
But not everyone believes as you do. The idiot PF Tinmore has posted more than once that Israel is not a real country because he believes ludicrously that they have no defined borders.

Right. Defending itself against a shipment of humanitarian goods....is somehow self defense.

Actyually no one knows what was on that shipment. Literally since we don't know who packed the stuff and put it on board. That was kind of the point. Israel offered to take the shipment, make sure everything was in fact humanitarian and bring it themselves to Gaza. But they were refused.

Except Israel lies. Gaza is not going to get that stuff.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think you need to take a look at a world map. I assure you, Israel most definitely has borders. I cant say the same about Palestine.

How can you not feel embarrassed after making such a factually incorrect claim? Literally everything you just said is flat wrong. Dude, you dont know shit about geography, so quit pretending like you do.

All the Maps you see of "Israel" are the 1949 armistice lines. It was specifically stated in the armistice agreements that they were NOT to be used as political or national borders. But since Israel has no borders people use those.

It amuses me when ignorant people say dumbass things. Do you believe in flying monkeys too?

The Armistice Agreement of 1949 defines the status of Israel as of that time. It took place after the end of the Palestine Mandate, after UN Resolution 181, after Israel declared itself to be a state, and after the 1948 war.

The armistice was called by UN resolution. There was no surrender. No country lost any land in that war.

All of the internationally recognized borders mentioned were between Lebanon and Palestine, Syria and Palestine, Jordan and Palestine, and Egypt and Palestine. No borders were mentioned for Israel.

The "green line" (that was specifically stated to NOT be national or political borders) defined areas of occupation. It did not change Palestine's internationally recognized borders.

The cease fire was between "Israeli forces" and the forces of the other countries. "Israel" was not mentioned.

Article I in all the agreements started with: "With a view to promoting the return of permanent peace in Palestine..."

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949

The Avalon Project : Israeli-Syrian General Armistice Agreement, July 20, 1949

The Avalon Project : Jordanian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, April 3, 1949

The Avalon Project : Egyptian-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, February 24, 1949

 

[The Rabbi]

Right. Defending itself against a shipment of humanitarian goods....is somehow self defense.

Actyually no one knows what was on that shipment. Literally since we don't know who packed the stuff and put it on board. That was kind of the point. Israel offered to take the shipment, make sure everything was in fact humanitarian and bring it themselves to Gaza. But they were refused.

Actually Israel controls the shipment. If there was anything illegal on it, they would have said so.

The problem with your suggestion is twofold.

1) The protesters believe the blockade to be illegal.

2) Israel restricts a lot of material that has nothing to do with terrorism.

Israel controls it? Since when? And since this happened all of what, 2 days ago, do you really think they've had time to inspect and catalogue every item on 5 ships??

And of course once they do find, e.g. detonators, the anti semites and Jew-haters well represented here will see that as evidence of being planted by Israel.

 

[Ravi]

I read both sides of the story.

Quite a mess.

Protesting is one thing, beating people with guns is pretty damned stupid.

 

[Nik]

Actyually no one knows what was on that shipment. Literally since we don't know who packed the stuff and put it on board. That was kind of the point. Israel offered to take the shipment, make sure everything was in fact humanitarian and bring it themselves to Gaza. But they were refused.

Actually Israel controls the shipment. If there was anything illegal on it, they would have said so.

The problem with your suggestion is twofold.

1) The protesters believe the blockade to be illegal.

2) Israel restricts a lot of material that has nothing to do with terrorism.

Israel controls it? Since when? And since this happened all of what, 2 days ago, do you really think they've had time to inspect and catalogue every item on 5 ships??

And of course once they do find, e.g. detonators, the anti semites and Jew-haters well represented here will see that as evidence of being planted by Israel.

Umm, yeah, I think they've had time to inspect 5 ships. Do you think Israel is 12 guys in a raft or something? They have the capacity to inspect 5 ships and you best believe they are doing it ASAP in the hope of finding weapons on them. They already put out videos of the alleged weapons the protesters were using.

And they control it since they massacred a bunch of the passengers to commandeer the ships, thats since when.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I read both sides of the story.

Quite a mess.

Protesting is one thing, beating people with guns is pretty damned stupid.

They beat no one until the protesters ATTACKED them. Dumb ass. And then they acted in self defense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

A blockade is an act of war. You should be prepared for any blowback resulting from that action.

The blockade against Gaza is an act of war and rockets were the blowback.

We must live in different timelines.

Hamas attacked Israel and Egypt from Gaza until they both got fed up and imposed a joint blockade. In other words, they started it, and the blockade was imposed as a result, not the other way around.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Or are you also saying that a Country has no right to enforce a LEGAL Blockade of a hostile area? So you think the North Koreans should be free to fire on US servicemen if they board their boats while enforcing a blockade? The Iraqis under Saddam Hussein should have fired on US and International navies for boarding their vessels in the 90's?

It isn't the scenario at hand now, is it? IF you want to stop a vessel with hundereds of potentionally aggresive people you go in with the force required to ensure you can contain the aggression. Or you leave it be. As soon as you have control YOU are in charge and responsible for what will happen next. That is the flip side of initiative. Having a man in distress firing an automatic rifle with the result of civilian casualties is a military fuck up nothing less. Agreed?

There was a massive fuck up here, but no one who was in distress was armed with anything more than lethal than sidearms. Their primary weapon to be used in the boarding were paintguns, and it was not until the relief force arrived that automatic weapons were employed. Those men were never in personal danger, and they fired to defend their comrades.

The fuck up was not going in with appropriate force in the first place, not in the reaction to it. Isreal should have been aware of the intents of the "activists" on this vessel to resist with violence, the intent to do so had been broadcst the day before on Palestinian TV. The fuck up was back at HQ, or in intelligence, not by the men who boarded.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Wow gunny you must have been a gun bunny because they are the dumbest Marines in the Corps. The US does not usually shoot at humanitarian flotillas (as reported by a member of the Israeli Parliament on the flotilla). We do not usually stop persons from entering a sovereign teritory, bring then into the US then claim they entered the US illegally. And of course the US recognizes territorial waters out to 12 miles not 70, I realize numbers probabaly confuse you, so let
me explain. 70 is a lot bigger than 12, so theyweren't in Israeli waters/territory, they said theywere going to enter, BUT until they actually did it,
Israel had no right to detain them.

Now lets talk tactics, if any nation on the planet should know not to attempt to storm a vessel with 100+ possible hostiles, with unknown armaments, using 15 commandos with (seriously?) paintball guns and pistols, one would think it would be Israel.

We have prevented people from entering Iraq. We have even shot down civilian airlines in international airspace when they ignored our warnings. We are no more in the habit of allowing random terror groups or foreign countries to play chicken with us and making us blink than Israel is.

So far, anyway.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually Israel controls the shipment. If there was anything illegal on it, they would have said so.

The problem with your suggestion is twofold.

1) The protesters believe the blockade to be illegal.

2) Israel restricts a lot of material that has nothing to do with terrorism.

The problem with your position is twofold.

1.) The "protesters" intended to attack Israel.

2.) You are unnaturally obsessed with chocolate, you should seem professional help.