UK Moves to Deny Surgery to Smokers

[Shogun]

is that the same advice you'd give john diggs, md?


Im sure there would be no grass roots movement to marginalize his scapegoat group, eh?

 

[T-Bor]

Why should a fat person be allowed surgery then? I mean seriously, if their addiction of eating a tub of bryars ice cream and drinking a jar of Alfredo sauce every night got them hospitalized then it is their own damn fault...

See where I am going?? So let's put people with bad diets, people with drug addictions and people who smoke...Lets lump all those poor unhealthy bastards together and deny them surgery. After all, its their own damn addiction that got them there right ??

The ruling, authorised by Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, comes after medical research conclusively showed smokers take longer to recover from surgery.

Then it's for their own benefit...

do you think that addicts should be given special treatment? Why should they take up space in the hospital when they refuse to take responsibility for their own health concerns?

They should be given the option... you can have the surgery or your addiction... your choice...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RGS: I have an idea.

rather than insult me about my supposed lack of reasoning power, why not showcaseYOURS by actually addressing this point:



and again: my overriding point has been that politics and society will move that cost/benefit/risk management line AND medical technology will move that line. If you do not like where the line is, you can either get involved in politics or you can get involved in medical research, or both.

or you can whine about those damned democratic socialists ruining your damned country.

whine on with your bad self!

Once again your trying to use word games and trying to dictate what can and can not be discussed. I suggest you start seeing a shrink about your anger problems, I am getting tired of them. You have NO position it would seem related to what the rest of us are discussing.

 

[Edward]

The ruling, authorised by Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, comes after medical research conclusively showed smokers take longer to recover from surgery.

Then it's for their own benefit...

do you think that addicts should be given special treatment? Why should they take up space in the hospital when they refuse to take responsibility for their own health concerns?

They should be given the option... you can have the surgery or your addiction... your choice...

Now, we all know that the only people who need to take responsibility are women who want to have abortions or so Republicans claim. The conservatives who want to smoke hate it when people tell them that they aren't going to benefit from it and have to decide between smoting or a surgery yet I suspect that they would defend free-market doctors denying care for the same reasons as it is typical for smokers to be denied health insurance or maybe that is different in the minds of these retards.

 

[Edward]

RGS: I have an idea.

rather than insult me about my supposed lack of reasoning power, why not showcaseYOURS by actually addressing this point:

and again: my overriding point has been that politics and society will move that cost/benefit/risk management line AND medical technology will move that line. If you do not like where the line is, you can either get involved in politics or you can get involved in medical research, or both.

or you can whine about those damned democratic socialists ruining your damned country.

whine on with your bad self!

I say let the bitch whine because that is all he and those who represent him in government can do. It always comes down to these bastards having issues with democratic socialists. I don't always agree with democratic socialists but I think the whining of these losers and their representatives is boring and worst outright evil. In a battle of ideologies between those who seek to destroy our country through pure capitalism and the democratic socialists I will chose the democratic socialists because even when they are wrong their motives are good while those who seek pure capitalism hate our society and intend to destroy it and to make it in their image. This battle has been fought since this country started and those of us who love our country have had to fight for our rights (including the right of our children not to be used as slaves by pure capitalists). God has and will help us prevail against these bastards.

 

[Gunny]

The ruling, authorised by Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, comes after medical research conclusively showed smokers take longer to recover from surgery.

Then it's for their own benefit...

do you think that addicts should be given special treatment? Why should they take up space in the hospital when they refuse to take responsibility for their own health concerns?

They should be given the option... you can have the surgery or your addiction... your choice...

Horseshit. If how long it takes to heal is the bar, then how about denying surgery to HIV/AIDS positive patients PERIOD? And don't give me that "smokers can choose -- they can't crap."

I'm with T-bor on this one. A fat, slovenly human pug is far more likely to die from clogged veins, a heart attack or having a chicken sandwich stuck in their throat than a smoker is from smoking.

I'm waiting for them to blame global warming on smoking. They've managed to blame just about any and everything else on it.

 

[no1tovote4]

The US does this as well as many insurance companies will not cover an elective surgery if a smoker doesn't quit for at least four weeks in advance.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The US does this as well as many insurance companies will not cover an elective surgery if a smoker doesn't quit for at least four weeks in advance.

ELECTIVE would be the operative part. Also last I checked in the US one is not FORCED to pay a specific Government or Insurance company for mandatory coverage.

Certain VERY specific operations also require one to NOT smoke after the surgery. In those cases it is acceptable to require the compliance. ( the one that comes to mind would be where certain things are reattached , like fingers, if you smoke after this surgery it will constrict the blood vessels and the attachment WILL fail)

Reasonable restrictions are , well reasonable, a blanket ban on smoking is not reasonable. It establishes a dangerous precedent and enables the envelope to continue to intrude in unreasonable areas.

 

[red states rule]

Some libs like the idea of the government running the health care system and telling people how to live their lives

That will be fine until it is the libs who have to change their lives and get run over buy the run away bus of liberalism

 

[maineman]

Once again your trying to use word games and trying to dictate what can and can not be discussed. I suggest you start seeing a shrink about your anger problems, I am getting tired of them. You have NO position it would seem related to what the rest of us are discussing.

I find it curious and somewhat amusing as to why you and your sidekick RSR keep referring to my "anger problems". I am not the least bit angry at anything other than the fact that we are in Iraq and keeping digging the hole deeper there. I certainly have no complaints about health care.

And I am discussing the faux outrage of the right about this issue - as if this is the first time that government or society has used risk management/cost-benefit analysis templates that have included personal behavior and responsibility....which is certainly part of this discussion.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

The conservatives who want to smoke hate it when people tell them that they aren't going to benefit from it and have to decide between smoting or a surgery yet I suspect that they would defend free-market doctors denying care for the same reasons as it is typical for smokers to be denied health insurance or maybe that is different in the minds of these retards.

The difference would be that you could choose a different insurance company or doctor. This isn't the case in the UK, to my knowledge.

The English want you to stop smoking for thirty days before they perform any operation on you. They aren't saying you have to quit altogether. If that is as big of a problem to you as it apparently is to shogun, by all means, don't move to England.

And they aren't saying you have to be healthy to be operated on... just that you quit for thirty days prior to the operation. Their experience has shown that those that do stop heal faster. Those that don't, don't.

The smokers don't like it because they obviously think it impinges upon their right to kill themselves in whatever manner they see fit. And as I have said on this thread over and over and over again... if anyone wants to kill themselves through smoking, by all means... go for it... I frankly, don't give a damn...

You don't give a damn...but you obviously support the UK's new policy.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I find it curious and somewhat amusing as to why you and your sidekick RSR keep referring to my "anger problems". I am not the least bit angry at anything other than the fact that we are in Iraq and keeping digging the hole deeper there. I certainly have no complaints about health care.

And I am discussing the faux outrage of the right about this issue - as if this is the first time that government or society has used risk management/cost-benefit analysis templates that have included personal behavior and responsibility....which is certainly part of this discussion.

Lets see, you resort to foul language and personal attacks when ever someone disagrees with you. You INSIST people only respond in a manner you have set up and when they do not you get pissed off and again resort to name calling and foul language. You think if you call some one an idiot with 20 words thats better than someone just saying " your an idiot" and then you pretend you didn't do it.

You think your opinion is the only one that matters. Anyone foolish enough to disagree with you and not become " enlightened" by you is treated to your anger.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I think the government is not the solution to all our problems. I think the government working with the private sector is a good idea though.

if we dont treat smokers, do we not treat people with addictions to alcohol, gambling, sex, food?. Do we just say screw people?

I meant for the uk , and I would say maineman is more grumpy then angry, like him I can be over passionate sometimes.

But maineman my dear friend, try and calm down a bit . We cant have anyone feeling like they have to walk on egg sheels with ya brother.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Im worried that some of you dont understand something here. Food is an addiction for some people. Like alcohol, they cant stop, and frankly, I think we should be a bit less judgmental. Where do we draw the line, a drunk can have a new liver, but a fat person, cant get a bypass.

Im all for personal responsibility, but compassion doesnt stop, even if its the persons fault. If someone gets aids, by having unprotected sex, or gets obese from eating to much, who are we to judge them?. Were supposed to help people, not beat them down.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

for the record im against the uk's policy...

 

[red states rule]

I find it curious and somewhat amusing as to why you and your sidekick RSR keep referring to my "anger problems". I am not the least bit angry at anything other than the fact that we are in Iraq and keeping digging the hole deeper there. I certainly have no complaints about health care.

And I am discussing the faux outrage of the right about this issue - as if this is the first time that government or society has used risk management/cost-benefit analysis templates that have included personal behavior and responsibility....which is certainly part of this discussion.

Being a lib, your solution to nearly every problem is the same - government

I have seen you meltdown when you have been unable to counter facts, overcome logic, and deny the truth about your party and the total failure of liberalism

Yet, you continue to defend and support the party and its policies

 

[actsnoblemartin]

The problem with liberals is they think government can solve everything

the problem with conservatives is they they you can solve everything on your own.

I go back to, everyone needs a support system, that doesnt have to be government, but if government were small and efficient, and only helped those who truly need it, then we would be a better nation.

 

[red states rule]

The problem with liberals is they think government can solve everything

the problem with conservatives is they they you can solve everything on your own.

I go back to, everyone needs a support system, that doesnt have to be government, but if government were small and efficient, and only helped those who truly need it, then we would be a better nation.

The support system, once called a safety net, is now a fricking king size bed - and getting bigger

 

[actsnoblemartin]

The support system, once called a safety net, is now a fricking king size bed - and getting bigger

You are completely correct...

 

[red states rule]

You are completely correct...

Thanks to big hearted libs handing out other peoples money to the non producers