UK Moves to Deny Surgery to Smokers

[maineman]

I am not ducking anything.

YOU made the following accusation:

You want government telling you if you can smoke? What is next - what you can eat or drink?

I merely asked you to show where I had ever said that I wanted government to do anything of the sort.

spin away, rsr............fly fly

 

[red states rule]

I am not ducking anything.

YOU made the following accusation:

You want government telling you if you can smoke? What is next - what you can eat or drink?

I merely asked you to show where I had ever said that I wanted government to do anything of the sort.

spin away, rsr............fly fly

Keep ducking

If Dems want government run healthcare here - this is what we all will get in return

Do you oppose your candidates desire for the government to take over haelth care in the US?

 

[maineman]

Keep ducking

If Dems want government run healthcare here - this is what we all will get in return

Do you oppose your candidates desire for the government to take over haelth care in the US?

no...YOU keep ducking. You made a claim about what I wanted. back it up or retract it.

 

[red states rule]

no...YOU keep ducking. You made a claim about what I wanted. back it up or retract it.

Typical non answer from MM

Never stick to the debate when losing - find a way to change the subject

 

[maineman]

Typical non answer from MM

Never stick to the debate when losing - find a way to change the subject

let me get this straight.... you jump into a thread the day after I have been posting on it...don't read anything of what I have posted.... make a claim about what I supposedly "want" and then get all blustery when I ask you where in the hell I have ever said that????


that's rich. typical RSR. foot in mouth.

 

[red states rule]

let me get this straight.... you jump into a thread the day after I have been posting on it...don't read anything of what I have posted.... make a claim about what I supposedly "want" and then get all blustery when I ask you where in the hell I have ever said that????


that's rich. typical RSR. foot in mouth.

Funny how you will not come out and say what you are for or against

Are you waiting for a poll to come out before expressing your stand on the issue?

 

[maineman]

I say again....maybe you missed it:

let me get this straight.... you jump into a thread the day after I have been posting on it...don't read anything of what I have posted.... make a claim about what I supposedly "want" and then get all blustery when I ask you where in the hell I have ever said that????

why the FUCK do you expect everyone to jump the minute you ask them a question when you NEVER answer questions posed to you?

I say again.... show me where I ever said that I want government telling you when to smoke. That was your claim. I am asking you to back it up. Or retract it.

 

[red states rule]

I say again....maybe you missed it:

let me get this straight.... you jump into a thread the day after I have been posting on it...don't read anything of what I have posted.... make a claim about what I supposedly "want" and then get all blustery when I ask you where in the hell I have ever said that????

why the FUCK do you expect everyone to jump the minute you ask them a question when you NEVER answer questions posed to you?

I say again.... show me where I ever said that I want government telling you when to smoke. That was your claim. I am asking you to back it up. Or retract it.

OK, you are for the Dems plan totake over health care in the US and you don;t want to admit it. The last thing Dems do is to REALLY tell the voters what they want to do - they want to win elections

 

[maineman]

look...moron...back up your claim. retract it...or shut up.

I'll wait.

 

[red states rule]

look...moron...back up your claim. retract it...or shut up.

I'll wait.

Your usual reaction when boxed into a corner

 

[Shogun]

Looks like others can see the correlations clear as the day is long, stripey..


perhaps you should ask yourself why you pink lunger, drinking at home self should have an opinion about where my clientelle decides to drink and smoke in public....

perhaps you can do so right after deciding the beauty standard necessary to recieve the flu shot and antibiotics. wouldnt want to wast preferred treatement on ugly people, you know..


ps..


spelling nazis have tiny genitalia... kinda lets everyone know what it is you are making up for when you can't argue your pink lunger agenda...

 

[maineman]

Your usual reaction when boxed into a corner

and I am NOT "boxed into a corner". I have been posting on this thread since last night and my ONLY point was that the idea of cost/benefit analysis and risk management is as old as health insurance itself. To suggest that this is some new, never-before-heard-of development is incorrect. To suggest that this policy in Great Britain is a change in KIND versus a change in DEGREE is false. That has been my ONLY point.

I have not once said that I agree with drawing the cost/beneift analysis line where Britain has drawn it nor is the placement of that line anything I have been talking about at all.

YOU made the claim that I "wanted government to tell people when to smoke" and, given the FACT that I have NEVER EVER expressed any such sentiment, I asked you to back up that lie (which we both know you can't...since I never said any such thing) or retract it (which we both know you WON'T because you neither grace nor ethics)

 

[RetiredGySgt]

and I am NOT "boxed into a corner". I have been posting on this thread since last night and my ONLY point was that the idea of cost/benefit analysis and risk management is as old as health insurance itself. To suggest that this is some new, never-before-heard-of development is incorrect. To suggest that this policy in Great Britain is a change in KIND versus a change in DEGREE is false. That has been my ONLY point.

I have not once said that I agree with drawing the cost/beneift analysis line where Britain has drawn it nor is the placement of that line anything I have been talking about at all.

YOU made the claim that I "wanted government to tell people when to smoke" and, given the FACT that I have NEVER EVER expressed any such sentiment, I asked you to back up that lie (which we both know you can't...since I never said any such thing) or retract it (which we both know you WON'T because you neither grace nor ethics)

So you are admitting you have not been discussing what the rest of us have? The entire point being that this "degree" and this new line are bad, wrong and set a dangerous precedent.

How about actually discussing the POINT of the thread?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is the sentence that opened the thread....

"Another reason why government run health care will not work" written by RSR.

Please show me where anyone is arguing about Change in Kind versus change in Degree. I will wait.

 

[maineman]

So you are admitting you have not been discussing what the rest of us have? The entire point being that this "degree" and this new line are bad, wrong and set a dangerous precedent.

How about actually discussing the POINT of the thread?

and I suggest that the Precedent has already been set. that this is not a new precedent at all, but merely a moving of the line - a line which is always on the move based upon cost/benefit analysis and risk management. If, all of a sudden, some type of surgery became radically cheaper, or radically safer, or radically more successful, you would see insurance companies and governments approve more of them, regardless of the behaviors of the patient.

 

[Shogun]

The Health Risks of Gay Sex JOHN R. DIGGS, JR. M.D.

As a physician, it is my duty to assess behaviors for their impact on health and wellbeing. When something is beneficial, such as exercise, good nutrition, or adequate sleep, it is my duty to recommend it. Likewise, when something is harmful, such as smoking, overeating, alcohol or drug abuse, and homosexual sex, it is my duty to discourage it.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html


remind me again how such is not a dangerous precedent that can also be applied according the the opinions of others regarding OTHER behaviour....

 

[maineman]

I am confused. Does Doctor Diggs make public policy?

 

[Shogun]

apparently so if he can gather enough support from like minded people with a bone to pick..


you know... like Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt in the article above....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I am confused. Does Doctor Diggs make public policy?

Are you serious? You want to win "points" while ignoring the entire POINT of the thread? I seriously doubt you can not grasp the point. Or am I over rating your reasoning ability?

 

[maineman]

RGS: I have an idea.

rather than insult me about my supposed lack of reasoning power, why not showcaseYOURS by actually addressing this point:

and I suggest that the Precedent has already been set. that this is not a new precedent at all, but merely a moving of the line - a line which is always on the move based upon cost/benefit analysis and risk management. If, all of a sudden, some type of surgery became radically cheaper, or radically safer, or radically more successful, you would see insurance companies and governments approve more of them, regardless of the behaviors of the patient.

and again: my overriding point has been that politics and society will move that cost/benefit/risk management line AND medical technology will move that line. If you do not like where the line is, you can either get involved in politics or you can get involved in medical research, or both.

or you can whine about those damned democratic socialists ruining your damned country.

whine on with your bad self!