U.S. expects rise in troop casualties

[maineman]

Then why are you so hyper over the Dems caving on their surrender bill?

show me where I have been hyper about the democrats negotiating with the white house after the president vetoed the troop funding bill supported by the american people? I am not hyper at all about that.... I think being politcally pragmatic is a good thing for my party to do at this point. This war will continue until January of 2009..... the best thing we can do is try to do the people's will as expressed in the last election.... they didn't give us a veto proof majority.... if they had, we would have overridden it and not had to talk with Bush about it...but we will talk because that is the mature and responsible thing to do. And the American people will appreciate it.... and show us their gratitude.

 

[Gunny]

show me where I have been hyper about the democrats negotiating with the white house after the president vetoed the troop funding bill supported by the american people? I am not hyper at all about that.... I think being politcally pragmatic is a good thing for my party to do at this point. This war will continue until January of 2009..... the best thing we can do is try to do the people's will as expressed in the last election.... they didn't give us a veto proof majority.... if they had, we would have overridden it and not had to talk with Bush about it...but we will talk because that is the mature and responsible thing to do. And the American people will appreciate it.... and show us their gratitude.

The people's will? Conservatives expressed dissatisfaction with Republicans by abstaining from supporting the GOP. Slipping in the back door is hardly the "people's will."

 

[maineman]

of course it is...if the results of national elections are not the reflection of the people's will, nothing is.

 

[maineman]

and those conservatives who did abstain had to be smart enough to figure out what the effect of their abstinence would be...and by knowing that and still abstaining, weren't they expressing their opinion in that manner in any case?

 

[Gunny]

of course it is...if the results of national elections are not the reflection of the people's will, nothing is.

I disagree. There was no noticeable shift in which side they supported by right or left. Had the Dem's gained a noticeable amount of conservative votes, THEN I would say you would have a valid point.

One side's team not showing up to play is a win by forfeit, and a tainted victory by ANY standards.

 

[maineman]

I disagree. There was no noticeable shift in which side they supported by right or left. Had the Dem's gained a noticeable amount of conservative votes, THEN I would say you would have a valid point.

One side's team not showing up to play is a win by forfeit, and a tainted victory by ANY standards.

conservatives "voted" for liberals by staying home... they knew full well what the results of their abstinence would be and stayed home anyway.

 

[maineman]

and tell me...when the democrats in the Senate vote to not confirm the next Harriet Miers that Dubya nominates, will that "victory" be "tainted"? A majority won is a victory...period. If the conservatives had wanted to maintain a republican majority, they could have gotten out the fucking vote.

 

[Gunny]

conservatives "voted" for liberals by staying home... they knew full well what the results of their abstinence would be and stayed home anyway.

Actually, no they didn't. You're giving people too much credit. They reacted emotionally without giving consideration to their actions.

If you want to waste the time, you can go back through some threads here pre-election where I beat the Hell out of more than a couple of conservatives for stating they weren't voting to teach Republicans a lesson.

 

[Gunny]

and tell me...when the democrats in the Senate vote to not confirm the next Harriet Miers that Dubya nominates, will that "victory" be "tainted"? A majority won is a victory...period. If the conservatives had wanted to maintain a republican majority, they could have gotten out the fucking vote.

If conservatives had turned out to vote, Dem's would STILL be looking in from the outside.

In this case, it's too bad conservatives/Republicans aren't as well-trained as liberals/Dems to just go vote for the party line no matter who or what.

 

[maineman]

Actually, no they didn't. You're giving people too much credit. They reacted emotionally without giving consideration to their actions.

If you want to waste the time, you can go back through some threads here pre-election where I beat the Hell out of more than a couple of conservatives for stating they weren't voting to teach Republicans a lesson.

sounds about as stupid as 3000 Palm Beach Jews who couldn't figure out the stupid punch card ballot and voted for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore.

what the hell? do only republican electoral victories count as victories????

 

[maineman]

If conservatives had turned out to vote, Dem's would STILL be looking in from the outside.

In this case, it's too bad conservatives/Republicans aren't as well-trained as liberals/Dems to just go vote for the party line no matter who or what.

sucks to be you.... I feel your pain.... bottom line. We won. Republicans lost. They can claim our victory wasn't really a "victory" all they want....

bottom line: it really was.

 

[Gunny]

sucks to be you.... I feel your pain.... bottom line. We won. Republicans lost. They can claim our victory wasn't really a "victory" all they want....

bottom line: it really was.

Sorry, but I STILL disagree. It was a victory by forfeit. Calling it anything else is not seeing the truth, and it has caused Congressional Dem's to just pick up right where they left off in the 90s when they got the boot for being a bunch of nincompoops.

So you can claim your hollow victory while it lasts, but claiming it was the "will of the people" is WRONG.

 

[maineman]

again...to claim that the results of a national election do not reflect the will of the people is a hollow argument.... and almost Hamiltonian in its elitism.

It is the basis of our democracy that the people express their will in national elections.

Was it an overwhelming mandate? of course not....but democrats are in the majority in both houses of congress because it was the will of the people that they be so.

 

[Gunny]

again...to claim that the results of a national election do not reflect the will of the people is a hollow argument.... and almost Hamiltonian in its elitism.

It is the basis of our democracy that the people express their will in national elections.

Was it an overwhelming mandate? of course not....but democrats are in the majority in both houses of congress because it was the will of the people that they be so.

To claim a victory by forfeit because one team doesn't show as representative of the will of the people is the hollow argument.

Democrats hold the majority because it was the will of some shortsighted conservatives to remove their own from power.

 

[maineman]

again... all I can say is that the people express their collective will in national elections...by voting or by not voting... and the party that gets the most votes wins. That is the collective will of the people.

 

[Gunny]

again... all I can say is that the people express their collective will in national elections...by voting or by not voting... and the party that gets the most votes wins. That is the collective will of the people.

Not when the entire collective isn't represented.

It is the collective will of those who voted.

 

[maineman]

no.. like it or not.... with the exception of those people who live in the wilderness and are unaware of what day election day is.... people vote by going to the polls and voting AND by staying home and not voting. their will IS represented in both instances.

 

[Gunny]

no.. like it or not.... with the exception of those people who live in the wilderness and are unaware of what day election day is.... people vote by going to the polls and voting AND by staying home and not voting. their will IS represented in both instances.

Exactly. The will of conservatives to not support Republicans then holding office is represented by the outcome of the election.

 

[maineman]

so we are arguing semantics....

let's move on to discuss how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!

Good night Gunny!

 

[red states rule]

no.. like it or not.... with the exception of those people who live in the wilderness and are unaware of what day election day is.... people vote by going to the polls and voting AND by staying home and not voting. their will IS represented in both instances.

Given how Dems are overplaying their hands, libs like you will be whining how the 08 election was stolen when you lose

or how the voters were to stupid to see all the "good" Dems accomplished