Turkey looking east, turning its back on the West?

[Munin]

Turkish ties have been made stronger and better with most middle eastern countries like Syria, Iran, ... All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.


At the same time the Turks are loosing intrest in joining the EU, much less turkisch people want to join it than 5 years ago. Turkish EU-membership is also not wanted by 2 of the biggest EU members France and Germany, this could result in Turkey making an "middle-eastern Union" or a "muslimworld-union".



Turkish deterioration of its ties with Israel could have an effect on its relations with the Western world (that is strongly allied with Israel), only recently Israel joined a very prestigious European trade organisation. US has chosen sides openly: that it will support Israel no matter what happens. Europe will probably side with Israel as well.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "West" has a debt/theft economic system that now sits in a large deflating bubble.

Maybe Turkey is trying to set up an alternate system similar to ALBA in Latin America. We already see economic ties between the "South" and the "East" forming particularly between Venezuela and Iran.

 

[Marc39]

Turkish ties have been made stronger and better with most middle eastern countries like Syria, Iran, ... All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.

Alienating the rest of the world in aligning itself with rogue states like Syria and Iran weakens Turkey.

 

[hipeter924]

Turkish ties have been made stronger and better with most middle eastern countries like Syria, Iran, ... All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.

Alienating the rest of the world in aligning itself with rogue states like Syria and Iran weakens Turkey.

It can join its fellow psuedo-democracies, and its economy can collapse. Plus the added bonus of no more Turk's in Europe (it's bad enough with the refugees from Africa).

 

[ekrem]

All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.

Who is friendly to the "West" (read: USA) is being decided in Washington.
Who is friendly to Turks is being decided in Ankara. Simple as that.
East, West, North, South: A country confident of itself looks into all directions based on its own interests. This is nothing unique of Turkey.

 

[Marc39]

All countries that have not been known as friendly countries to the West.

Who is friendly to the "West" (read: USA) is being decided in Washington.
Who is friendly to Turks is being decided in Ankara. Simple as that.
East, West, North, South: A country confident of itself looks into all directions based on its own interests. This is nothing unique of Turkey.

Turkey is not confident of itself, evidenced by its shift to the dark side of Islamism, a one-way highway to Loserville.

 

[ekrem]

Turkey is not confident of itself, evidenced by its shift to the dark side of Islamism, a one-way highway to Loserville.

If Turkey would not be confident:
- Turkey would not have been able to resist pressures of Neo-Cons to be immoral participant in an hostile and illegal attack on Iraq, a big shame for USA and evidence of US's shift into war-mongering radicalism.
- Turkey would not have negotiated a uranium-swap deal together with Brazil and would not have voted No on UN security Council regarding Iran sanctions.
- Turkey would not have declared casus-belli on Greece extending Greece's maritime borders in accordance with the UN Sea Convention of 1982.
Greece happens also to be an EU and NATO member.
Her Greek cousins in Cyprus, also an EU member, were contained South of the Attila Line, which runs straight through the Capital in Nicosia.
Casus belli - Turkey and Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The financial collapse of Greece, and irreversible death spiral of unmanageable debt will transform Greece into a vasal state co-managed by Germany and Turkey. Germany her financial patron, Turkey her geo-political patron.
STRATFOR - The Geopolitics of Greece: A Sea at its Heart

Loserville

This town called Loserville is located in USA, probably you are honorary citizen of that town and intellectual figurehead for its people.

 

[Marc39]

Turkey is not confident of itself, evidenced by its shift to the dark side of Islamism, a one-way highway to Loserville.

If Turkey would not be confident:
- Turkey would not have been able to resist pressures of Neo-Cons to be immoral participant in an hostile and illegal attack on Iraq, a big shame for USA and evidence of US's shift into war-mongering radicalism.
- Turkey would not have negotiated a uranium-swap deal together with Brazil and would not have voted No on UN security Council regarding Iran sanctions.
- Turkey would not have declared casus-belli on Greece extending Greece's maritime borders in accordance with the UN Sea Convention of 1982.
Greece happens also to be an EU and NATO member.
Her Greek cousins in Cyprus, also an EU member, were contained South of the Attila Line, which runs straight through the Capital in Nicosia.
Casus belli - Turkey and Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The financial collapse of Greece, and irreversible death spiral of unmanageable debt will transform Greece into a vasal state co-managed by Germany and Turkey. Germany her financial patron, Turkey her geo-political patron.
STRATFOR - The Geopolitics of Greece: A Sea at its Heart

Loserville

This town called Loserville is located in USA, probably you are honorary citizen of that town and intellectual figurehead for its people.

Sorry, but, Islam is a loser religion as evidenced by the decaying state of the Islamic world. Turkey's decision to abandon Ataturk's secularism and align itself with losers like Sudan, Iran and Syria reflects a loser mentality in Turkey.

 

[syrenn]

Good to know, I will make sure I face the next turkey I put in the oven facing east.

 

[hipeter924]

Turkey is not confident of itself, evidenced by its shift to the dark side of Islamism, a one-way highway to Loserville.

If Turkey would not be confident:
- Turkey would not have been able to resist pressures of Neo-Cons to be immoral participant in an hostile and illegal attack on Iraq, a big shame for USA and evidence of US's shift into war-mongering radicalism.
- Turkey would not have negotiated a uranium-swap deal together with Brazil and would not have voted No on UN security Council regarding Iran sanctions.
- Turkey would not have declared casus-belli on Greece extending Greece's maritime borders in accordance with the UN Sea Convention of 1982.
Greece happens also to be an EU and NATO member.
Her Greek cousins in Cyprus, also an EU member, were contained South of the Attila Line, which runs straight through the Capital in Nicosia.
Casus belli - Turkey and Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The financial collapse of Greece, and irreversible death spiral of unmanageable debt will transform Greece into a vasal state co-managed by Germany and Turkey. Germany her financial patron, Turkey her geo-political patron.
STRATFOR - The Geopolitics of Greece: A Sea at its Heart

Loserville

This town called Loserville is located in USA, probably you are honorary citizen of that town and intellectual figurehead for its people.

Like that invasion of Kurdistan in Iraq.

 

[NYKnicksRule]

Turkey has rightfully determined that Israel is simply a glorified aparthide system that focuses its repression on fellow Muslims. This is with the US and EU support. No wonder Turkey is reconsidering her allies

 

[ekrem]

Good to know, I will make sure I face the next turkey I put in the oven facing east.

Cooking is probably the only thing you are good at.

 

[ekrem]

Like that invasion of Kurdistan in Iraq.

There are bigger forces at play in this region then the subject of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Sorry, but, Islam is a loser religion as evidenced by the decaying state of the Islamic world. Turkey's decision to abandon Ataturk's secularism and align itself with losers like Sudan, Iran and Syria reflects a loser mentality in Turkey.

Uncompromising Secularism in its form it was exerted in Turkey meant in foreign policy that the bondage between Turks and Sunnite brothers in faith was demonized and classified as backwards. There was disappointment about the decisions taken by Sunnite brothers in faith of that time, so the Turkish mentality of the founding years decided to be neutral regarding their brothers in faith and to be passive when it came to taking a stance regarding their problems.

This mentality of the founding years does not fit anymore into the dynamics of 21st century, it restricts soft-power to be exerted into the immediate Sunnite neighbourhood. You can dominate a region by military and economy, but only soft-power establishes a sustaining and healthy bondage without fluctuations.

Not Secularism is abandoned, but the disappointment at and the demonization of the Sunnite neighbours of Turkey. Turks have decided to cultivate a bond between Turks and Sunnite Arabs, a synergy effect that will help ascend Turkey faster and give Arabs a real meaning with their independence.

Unfortunately no one will advance Sunnite interests within the world system, since dissolution of Ottoman Empire. Sunnite countries were played like ping-pong by world powers starting with Brits/French and then by USA.
So it is for Turks to fill that role again. A side-product can indeed be some sort of Middle-Eastern Union. The ping-pong players might not like, but they are not asked of their opinion.

 

[Marc39]

Turkey has rightfully determined that Israel is simply a glorified aparthide system that focuses its repression on fellow Muslims. This is with the US and EU support. No wonder Turkey is reconsidering her allies

Except, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is not apartheid, where every Israeli citizen is constitutionally guaranteed equal rights.

Unlike the Arab Muslim shitholes where freedom, human rights and civil liberties are totally absent.

 

[Marc39]

Like that invasion of Kurdistan in Iraq.

There are bigger forces at play in this region then the subject of Iraqi Kurdistan.

Sorry, but, Islam is a loser religion as evidenced by the decaying state of the Islamic world. Turkey's decision to abandon Ataturk's secularism and align itself with losers like Sudan, Iran and Syria reflects a loser mentality in Turkey.

Uncompromising Secularism in its form it was exerted in Turkey meant in foreign policy that the bondage between Turks and Sunnite brothers in faith was demonized and classified as backwards. There was disappointment about the decisions taken by Sunnite brothers in faith of that time, so the Turkish mentality of the founding years decided to be neutral regarding their brothers in faith and to be passive when it came to taking a stance regarding their problems.

This mentality of the founding years does not fit anymore into the dynamics of 21st century, it restricts soft-power to be exerted into the immediate Sunnite neighbourhood. You can dominate a region by military and economy, but only soft-power establishes a sustaining and healthy bondage without fluctuations.

Not Secularism is abandoned, but the disappointment at and the demonization of the Sunnite neighbours of Turkey. Turks have decided to cultivate a bond between Turks and Sunnite Arabs, a synergy effect that will help ascend Turkey faster and give Arabs a real meaning with their independence.

Unfortunately no one will advance Sunnite interests within the world system, since dissolution of Ottoman Empire. Sunnite countries were played like ping-pong by world powers starting with Brits/French and then by USA.
So it is for Turks to fill that role again. A side-product can indeed be some sort of Middle-Eastern Union. The ping-pong players might not like, but they are not asked of their opinion.

The Ottoman Empire was disparagingly known as the Sick Man of Europe. If Turkey wants to recapture its inglorioius past, they will go down the toilet, like every other failed Muslim cesspool

 

[ekrem]

The "West" has a debt/theft economic system that now sits in a large deflating bubble.

Maybe Turkey is trying to set up an alternate system similar to ALBA in Latin America. We already see economic ties between the "South" and the "East" forming particularly between Venezuela and Iran.

Economic integration is not restricted to Middle-East.
Except Armenia, all other countries of Caucasus are integrated into Turkish economy.
Turks re-discovered Caucasus after Soviet collapse. There are now railways, highways, fiber-cables, piplines between Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey.
Economic relations are strong and cultivated by private entrepeunership.

German Marshall Fund
(Funded by German Government to advance Trans-Atlantic inetrests as a thank you for US Marshall Plan post-WW2)

Turkish firms are involved in every aspect of their economies and, distinct from other foreign companies, are not restricted to a particular sector protected by state guarantees. In addition to their core activities, some - especially in Azerbaijan – have invested in philanthropic activities and are helping to foster dialogue on policy issues and the institution-building process.

http://www.gmfus.org/galleries/ct_p...discovers_her_South_Caucasus_Neighborhood.pdf

Now, Turks re-discover Middle-East with decline and redeployment of USA out of Middle-East. Like in Caucasus, economic front is the game-changer for improved diplomatical relations, which we currently witness between Arabs and Turks.

The Economist

Turkey's Middle East offensive has taken on something of the scale and momentum of an invasion, albeit a peaceful one.
In the past seven years the value of Turkey's exports to the Middle East and north Africa has swollen nearly sevenfold to $31 billion in 2008. From cars to tableware, dried figs to television serials, Turkish products, unknown a decade ago, are now ubiquitous in markets from Algiers to Tehran.
(...)

Turkey and the Middle East: Looking east and south | The Economist


Most people on usmb.com like Marc69 live in a dream-world, where they restrict themselves to culinary intellectual diet. For them it is all about simplistic catchwords like "Islamism" etc.. The poor man's understanding of the world.
For Turks it is like it was almost 1.000 years to subdue European Kingdoms, and if that is not possible to gain strength to be competitive so Anatolia is not subdued. With economical integration of the neighbourhoods, Turkey is positioning herself for the adventures of 21st century.

 

[ekrem]

The Ottoman Empire was disparagingly known as the Sick Man of Europe. If Turkey wants to recapture its inglorioius past, they will go down the toilet, like every other failed Muslim cesspool

Turkey is market economy, those who have money are most potent in forming NGO's and think-tanks to influence State Policy and maybe position "their men" in State institutions.
If Secularists are challenged by periphery Elites, this means, there was already an underlying economical transformation which resulted in shifting wealth to the periphery.

Islamic Calvinists. Change and Conservatism in Central Anatolia
European Stability Initiative - Reports - ESI

Central Anatolia, with its rural economy and patriarchal, Islamic culture, is seen as the heartland of this 'other' Turkey. Yet in recent years, it has witnessed an economic miracle that has turned a number of former trading towns into prosperous manufacturing centres. This new prosperity has led to a transformation of traditional values and a new cultural outlook that embraces hard work, entrepreneurship and development.

With Turkey integrated into world-economy as founding member of G-20, pious Islamic business companies within Turkey are competitive within Turkey and on world markets.
Money rules the world, also in Turkey. Ideas are not enough.

 

[ekrem]

Sick Man of Europe.

Today, there is talk of the Sick Man of the Americas.
With NASA having to roll out the red carpet to Muslim countries, so Muslim countries co-finance NASA projects, which were re-dubbed politically correct as "Muslim opening".
No thank you.

How's your mortgage payments doing?

 

[Marc39]

Sick Man of Europe.

Today, there is talk of the Sick Man of the Americas.
With NASA having to roll out the red carpet to Muslim countries, so Muslim countries co-finance NASA projects, which were re-dubbed politically correct as "Muslim opening".
No thank you.

How's your mortgage payments doing?

Obama is rolling out nothing to Muslim countries having caused a laugh-riot in America about Muslim countries and rocket science, since the only rocket science the backward Muslims are expert at is learning how to make rockets in their basements and firing them into Israel.

Muslims are the most backward people in the world. They first need to learn how to read and write.

 

[hipeter924]

The Ottoman Empire was disparagingly known as the Sick Man of Europe. If Turkey wants to recapture its inglorioius past, they will go down the toilet, like every other failed Muslim cesspool

Turkey is market economy, those who have money are most potent in forming NGO's and think-tanks to influence State Policy and maybe position "their men" in State institutions.
If Secularists are challenged by periphery Elites, this means, there was already an underlying economical transformation which resulted in shifting wealth to the periphery.

Islamic Calvinists. Change and Conservatism in Central Anatolia
European Stability Initiative - Reports - ESI

Central Anatolia, with its rural economy and patriarchal, Islamic culture, is seen as the heartland of this 'other' Turkey. Yet in recent years, it has witnessed an economic miracle that has turned a number of former trading towns into prosperous manufacturing centres. This new prosperity has led to a transformation of traditional values and a new cultural outlook that embraces hard work, entrepreneurship and development.

With Turkey integrated into world-economy as founding member of G-20, pious Islamic business companies within Turkey are competitive within Turkey and on world markets.
Money rules the world, also in Turkey. Ideas are not enough.

Yep, advancing so fast...here's Turkey's CBD: