Truth or Propaganda? NATO military blood supplies tainted with HIV & Hepatitis B & C

[JGalt]

Which as I said is a circular argument. Because their reference is the exact same unsourced claim that you already posted. That is called circular sourcing. And it is really big in the fake news circles.

A makes a claim, B repeats it, C repeats it from B, then A uses B and C to claim that proves it is real.

And of course the standard conspiracy theory nutcase claim that of course nobody else reports it, they are part of the conspiracy. That got old decades ago, and that is just a copout.

As was posting a completely unreadable document, and telling us what it said without giving a source for where it came from.

That is part of the typical MO for conspiracy nutcases. Nothing can ever be proven, we have to just accept what they say without question. Sorry, but I'm a skeptic and I want proof of anything.

Well take it up with the OP if it hurts your feelings. Nobody's forcing you to believe anything, and he did after all, post this at the top of the thread:

"Covert biological warfare or gross incompetence if it's the truth, Russian propaganda if it's false. - You decide."

 

[meaner gene]

As was posting a completely unreadable document, and telling us what it said without giving a source for where it came from.

The problem is that he posted a picture, and not a PDF or HTML, which is how governments put their documents on the internet.

 

[meaner gene]

Well take it up with the OP if it hurts your feelings. Nobody's forcing you to believe anything, and he did after all, post this at the top of the thread:

"Covert biological warfare or gross incompetence if it's the truth, Russian propaganda if it's false. - You decide."

Actually based on everything you posted, it was determined to be Russian propaganda.

 

[meaner gene]

Actually the "fake news" reports would be more believable if they didn't use such large (10 times the rate in the general population) blood infection rates.

And even just to meet the general population rate, it would require no donor screening, or blood testing being done.

 

[JGalt]

The problem is that he posted a picture, and not a PDF or HTML, which is how governments put their documents on the internet.

The document was not released by the Ukraine Ministry of Health. As I said before, it was hacked from them and posted in the tweet. The story was released on November 4, which was yesterday, so you have to take into consideration the "fog of war." We might not know more details about this for weeks.

I did manage to find this just now, but it doesn't offer much more information:

report

NATO put for APU the blood in which HIV and hepatitis were found

This is reported by the Telegram channel Mash with reference to data obtained by Kombatant hackers from the archive of the Prime Minister of Ukraine Denis Shmygal.

According to the channel, the Ministry of Health of Ukraine was in dire need of blood for the wounded in the Odessa, Nikolaev, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv and Zaporozhye regions, so it requested 62 thousand liters from the Bloc countries.

The participating countries sent canned blood, but the Ukrainian doctors decided to check it. So they found in the samples of the 1st group 6.3% of samples with HIV, 7.4% with hepatitis B and 3.2% with hepatitis C. In the 2nd group: 5.9%, 6.8%, 3.1%, respectively.

NATO countries also sent a check to the Ukrainian Ministry of Health for “prevention of viral diseases” in canned blood. The cost of the service cost Kiev 680 million hryvnia.

see original

 

[meaner gene]

The document was not released by the Ukraine Ministry of Health. As I said before, it was hacked from them and posted in the tweet.

You can't "hack" a picture of a document, which means what was tweeted was a no longer what was "hacked", but a manipulated version of what was hacked.

The resolution of the picture also prevented people from getting an online translation.

 

[JGalt]

You can't "hack" a picture of a document, which means what was tweeted was a no longer what was "hacked", but a manipulated version of what was hacked.

The resolution of the picture also prevented people from getting an online translation.

Like I said, you come to your own conclusions about this.

 

[para bellum]

Well it's total propaganda, people should be a little more discerning (cough cough JGalt ).

NATO does not exercise control over medical logistics within the alliance. That's not a collective responsibility- it is a national responsibility. IOW, Ukraine could ask a NATO state for blood, but it would make no sense to ask NATO for blood, nor could NATO supply it. NATO does not have a blood supply to draw from.

In fact, it is a recognized problem that NATO does not have medical logistics interoperability, and it's something that needs to be addressed.

Also, there are no NATO Commands involved with the Ukraine war. The Ukraine Defense Contact Group coordinates the military assistance, and that is not under a NATO or US Command. It is an ad-hoc group made up of defense ministry officials from each of the participating countries. The US usually hosts the meetings, but the UDCG runs their own show. Mostly it involves Ukraine saying what they need to win on the battlefield, and the member countries trying to figure out how to deliver it.

Financial aid and humanitarian assistance is done at a different level, those are individual government-to-government arrangements. Ukraine could ask say, Estonia, for some blood- and the coordination and logistics would be done by the health authorities of those countries.

The purpose of the propaganda is two-fold. First to give the impression that Ukraine is taking such heavy losses that they have to ask NATO for blood. That is false.

Second, to reinforce the narrative that the west is a decadent and disease ridden culture full of "gay satanists", etc. Also false...

The propaganda doesn't have to be good or even convincing- it's not targeted at people who will view it with a critical eye. It's targeted at the Russian domestic audience, and people in the West who are already inclined to believe the Kremlin narrative.

 

[meaner gene]

Well it's total propaganda, people should be a little more discerning (cough cough JGalt ).

NATO does not exercise control over medical logistics within the alliance. That's not a collective responsibility- it is a national responsibility. IOW, Ukraine could ask a NATO state for blood, but it would make no sense to ask NATO for blood, nor could NATO supply it. NATO does not have a blood supply to draw from.

I've been using "google lens" to get a translation of the ukraine documents, and one thing I found in common translation is that they are talking about purchasing blood from africa, from "the company". Which leads to the conclusion is a company in africa was offering whole blood, which Ukraine tested before possible acceptance.

And the blood may not have been in the form of whole transfuseable blood, but as collective blood products.

 

[whitehall]

It's not a military issue. It's a political topic.

 

[Care4all]

Under normal circumstances, yes. But wartime is not a "normal" circumstance, and NATO is struggling to procure blood to supply the Ukrainian troops, along with everything else they're providing them. I doubt they're doing all that much testing, given the urgency.

There have been rumors that NATO has refused blood donations from Africa, for fear of AIDS-tainted blood. But that sounds a little like the propaganda that equates Ukraine with being "Nazis." I'm sure they would accept any blood they could get, right now.

Of course they are testing the blood donated!

It has to be tested by a medical technologist to get the blood group/type and rh factor of the unit of blood donated to label it, and the other testing for diseases would be done at the same time.

You can kill a patient if you give them the wrong blood group/type.

 

[Mushroom]

There have been rumors that NATO has refused blood donations from Africa, for fear of AIDS-tainted blood.

How about a reference for that?

Wait, what am I saying? Of course there is no reference, it is entirely made up in your mind.

Guess what, Braniac? "NATO" does not accept blood donations. Each nation is responsible for their own blood programs. And exactly like in the US, that almost always comes from the military itself.

In the US, it is the ASBP, or the "Armed Services Blood Program". They do not accept blood from the Red Cross or any other civilian organization, it is entirely collected and supplied to other members of the military. And this is not even anything new, it has been that way since 1952.

https://www.militaryblood.dod.mil/

The only time the blood collected from the ASBP leaves the military is if there is a major disaster, or it is getting close to the shelf life so it is donated rather than simply throwing it away. Anybody who has actually served in the military knows this, and all nations do the same thing. Which is why your stupid and conspiracy laden claims are nothing but BS.

The military does that for multiple reasons. In order to maintain their own stable supply, to eliminate the need (and cost) of acquiring blood from other sources, and because in the event of war or other disaster so they have their own supply where removing it will not harm the local civilian organizations.

Then people wonder why I constantly laugh at conspiracy theorists. They have no clue at all, yet always try to sound like absolute authorities, even though they can never provide neutral and verifiable references for their claims.

 

[JGalt]

How about a reference for that?

Wait, what am I saying? Of course there is no reference, it is entirely made up in your mind.

Guess what, Braniac? "NATO" does not accept blood donations. Each nation is responsible for their own blood programs. And exactly like in the US, that almost always comes from the military itself.

In the US, it is the ASBP, or the "Armed Services Blood Program". They do not accept blood from the Red Cross or any other civilian organization, it is entirely collected and supplied to other members of the military. And this is not even anything new, it has been that way since 1952.

https://www.militaryblood.dod.mil/

The only time the blood collected from the ASBP leaves the military is if there is a major disaster, or it is getting close to the shelf life so it is donated rather than simply throwing it away. Anybody who has actually served in the military knows this, and all nations do the same thing. Which is why your stupid and conspiracy laden claims are nothing but BS.

The military does that for multiple reasons. In order to maintain their own stable supply, to eliminate the need (and cost) of acquiring blood from other sources, and because in the event of war or other disaster so they have their own supply where removing it will not harm the local civilian organizations.

Then people wonder why I constantly laugh at conspiracy theorists. They have no clue at all, yet always try to sound like absolute authorities, even though they can never provide neutral and verifiable references for their claims.

 

[para bellum]

Well this is the problem JGalt.

Credit @GeromanAT

Seriously, this guy hasn't been right on anything, anytime. He can't even predict his next bowel movement. You can be pretty certain that if he's repeating it, it's BS.

 

[Mushroom]

Great, yet another tweet from a Pro-Russian fanatic.

Still waiting for some kind of neutral and verifiable reference. But it appears that you have none, just more Anti-American Pro-Russian spokesholes.