Trust bust Google

[SwimExpert]

How do you bust popularity?

Google has out-performed other search engine offerings and earned people's preference.

I don't think there is any anti-trust case here. People can always take their searching elsewhere.

Can any less be said of Standard Oil or the Bell companies? But the thing is that Google does not outperform other search engines, nowadays. In fact, they largely perform less capably than their own performance a decade ago, in terms of search results. And they certainly don't perform well for paying advertisers compared to the past, as they've merely become an expensive, extortive pseudo-tax.

What Google has done is successfully inserted themselves into many aspects of every day life. Which brings us back to my comment about conflicts of interest.

So what? this doesn't belong in the Politics room.

Free market politics, anti-trust laws, business regulation. This is a thread about politics. Don't get confused just because of a specific example.

 

[SYTFE]

Google is aggressive. I get nearly a dozen calls a month trying to get me to pay for better search results for my business.
Never have heard a peep from Bing.

Those are not calls from Google. Those are scam telemarketing calls. Google won't waste their time calling you.

 

[SYTFE]

The only way to get up in the ratings now is $$$$....

Not true. You just have to be very, very creative and know what you're doing. It isn't easy though, but the best tip is to focus on the long tail...

Try getting as many people into your circle on Google + .. , you can do that by liking anyone in business.. google will bring up your ratings ..be sure to use your business name.

Not really. Social activity, including G+, isn't really factored into their ranking algorithms. It's almost entirely based on quality backlinks and on-site engagement.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Google is aggressive. I get nearly a dozen calls a month trying to get me to pay for better search results for my business.
Never have heard a peep from Bing.

Those are not calls from Google. Those are scam telemarketing calls. Google won't waste their time calling you.

Could be, I never give them a chance to talk.

 

[SYTFE]

Google is aggressive. I get nearly a dozen calls a month trying to get me to pay for better search results for my business.
Never have heard a peep from Bing.

Those are not calls from Google. Those are scam telemarketing calls. Google won't waste their time calling you.

Could be, I never give them a chance to talk.

Pro tip: Every time you get one of those calls, type in the phone # into google. It will pull up multiple sites where other people report the phone number as a scam, a telemarketing number, etc. Then block the phone number once you've confirmed it's a BS call. Rinse, and repeat.

 

[SYTFE]

Ah, I see....I've never advertised on Google...it wasn't around when I sold my last business. But from what I hear they are worth every nickel they charge since most potential customers never look further than the first page of links.

And Google has been intentionally returning more and more junk results for years now, all while reducing the number of first page results, and increasing the price of advertising through non-transparent "auction" systems, which require ceding control to Google themselves to decide what is "optimal" for your ads. Oh, and they can decide for themselves to turn on ad campaigns that you've paused, and bill you a month later.

How much are you spending per month with them? If you don't mind..

 

[SwimExpert]

The only way to get up in the ratings now is $$$$....

Try getting as many people into your circle on Google + .. , you can do that by liking anyone in business.. google will bring up your ratings ..be sure to use your business name.

.

That is my point, exactly. Google interjects themselves to control your visibility, then charges you so you can be visible. I don't use Google+ and it's not an option for my business, due to Google's frequent attempts to label my apartment address as a storefront location on Google maps. They love to take information and cross it over into their other products, but then when you try to address it it's always someone else they have to transfer you to, all while getting sales pitch after sales pitch. On two separate occasions I had to spend more than a day to fix it, and eventually had to threaten legal action just for them to delete the account. Nearly got me evicted because the management company thought I was running a business out of my home.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The only way to get up in the ratings now is $$$$....

Try getting as many people into your circle on Google + .. , you can do that by liking anyone in business.. google will bring up your ratings ..be sure to use your business name.

.

That is my point, exactly. Google interjects themselves to control your visibility, then charges you so you can be visible. I don't use Google+ and it's not an option for my business, due to Google's frequent attempts to label my apartment address as a storefront location on Google maps. They love to take information and cross it over into their other products, but then when you try to address it it's always someone else they have to transfer you to, all while getting sales pitch after sales pitch. On two separate occasions I had to spend more than a day to fix it, and eventually had to threaten legal action just for them to delete the account. Nearly got me evicted because the management company thought I was running a business out of my home.

I can attest to this. I had the same problem. Not worried about eviction but don't need customers at my door.

 

[SwimExpert]

Ah, I see....I've never advertised on Google...it wasn't around when I sold my last business. But from what I hear they are worth every nickel they charge since most potential customers never look further than the first page of links.

And Google has been intentionally returning more and more junk results for years now, all while reducing the number of first page results, and increasing the price of advertising through non-transparent "auction" systems, which require ceding control to Google themselves to decide what is "optimal" for your ads. Oh, and they can decide for themselves to turn on ad campaigns that you've paused, and bill you a month later.

How much are you spending per month with them? If you don't mind..

I've moved on from spending money with Google. Years ago, I used to be able to get my fill of clients with an average $175 a month in ads. Nowadays, I could easily piss away $500 in a month without getting a single client. The higher of a budget you let them have, the higher the per-click costs they'll charge you.

 

[Vastator]

It needs to be done. Yes. Google has purposely turned themselves into shit now that they have an effective monopoly. Being shit is more profitable when you have a monopoly. A free market needs competition in order to work well and produce the best products.

That's racist.

 

[AntonToo]

How do you bust popularity?

Google has out-performed other search engine offerings and earned people's preference.

I don't think there is any anti-trust case here. People can always take their searching elsewhere.

Can any less be said of Standard Oil or the Bell companies? But the thing is that Google does not outperform other search engines, nowadays. In fact, they largely perform less capably than their own performance a decade ago, in terms of search results. And they certainly don't perform well for paying advertisers compared to the past, as they've merely become an expensive, extortive pseudo-tax.

What Google has done is successfully inserted themselves into many aspects of every day life. Which brings us back to my comment about conflicts of interest.

I don't think it compares to Bell and Standard OIL.

Changing search engine is very easy, unlike trying to operate outside of hardware Bell monopolized.

AT&T was, at the time, the sole provider of telephone service throughout most of the United States. Furthermore, most telephonic equipment in the United States was produced by its subsidiary,Western Electric

Breakup of the Bell System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Google has no monopoly on anything it does really, it's just popular.

 

[SYTFE]

Ah, I see....I've never advertised on Google...it wasn't around when I sold my last business. But from what I hear they are worth every nickel they charge since most potential customers never look further than the first page of links.

And Google has been intentionally returning more and more junk results for years now, all while reducing the number of first page results, and increasing the price of advertising through non-transparent "auction" systems, which require ceding control to Google themselves to decide what is "optimal" for your ads. Oh, and they can decide for themselves to turn on ad campaigns that you've paused, and bill you a month later.

How much are you spending per month with them? If you don't mind..

I've moved on from spending money with Google. Years ago, I used to be able to get my fill of clients with an average $175 a month in ads. Nowadays, I could easily piss away $500 in a month without getting a single client. The higher of a budget you let them have, the higher the per-click costs they'll charge you.

Yeah, that's pretty low. Years ago, the CPC was dirt cheap. Not sure when you started, but it used to be awesome. Now, the big G is really focused on accounts that are spending at least 5-10k a month.

If you aren't getting anything from $500 a month, there could be a targeting issue, a problem with the copy in the ad, or some other factor. Conversion rates from PPC ads are never extraordinary anyway, but you should be able to get a decent conversion rate with $500 a month. I would at least set up a retargeting campaign at a minimum, it's by far the most cost effective.

Doing PPC can be a long and grueling learning curve, but when you do it long enough and have enough data, the amount of traffic available to you is truly staggering. Once you hit a certain point, it's like another stratosphere of traffic opens up for you, it's just bonkers. But you probably don't need that for your small business. You just want to have a decent return on your ad dollars.

Do you ever do direct ad buys with specific web sites? That's a pretty advanced technique that a lot of really smart ad buyers do, they'll gather what sites convert for them the best (if running content display ads) from G, then go to the sites directly and see if they sell direct. Way, way cheaper and you already know they convert.

Bing is a ghost town. BUT, every once in a while, if you have a razor targeted campaign set up, you can get some traffic that converts for dirt cheap.

 

[SwimExpert]

Google is aggressive. I get nearly a dozen calls a month trying to get me to pay for better search results for my business.
Never have heard a peep from Bing.

Oh, they're aggressive alright. Fucking scandalous, thieving motherfuckers at that. In all seriousness, as much as I'm not a fan of government interference, I wonder if it's not time to develop a regulatory scheme when it comes to online advertising. There's a huge conflict of interest where Google holds control to persistently fuck the ranking algorithms to generate increasingly junk results and destroying organic SEO, while charging increasing advertising rates with non-transparent pricing schemes.

Angie's list switched to full pay to play this month for businesses. I was a top contractor on their metro list for over 15 years. Last week they called and said I had 7 days to pick an advertising plan or all of my reviews and information would be dropped from their site. Home Advisors fucked up 15 free years of advertising for me. Usually competition is a good thing, this time is fucked me. Angie's list wants hundreds of dollars per zip code now

Per zip code? Jesus fuck, that's ridiculous. The old fashioned yellow pages were never a useful listing for me, but I do miss the mentality of the old days. It used to be that if you were in the advertising business, then you were in the advertising business and you worked for a fair fee for a fair advertisement. Nowadays, bastards want to gouge you as if you're supposed to be running your business for them.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Google is aggressive. I get nearly a dozen calls a month trying to get me to pay for better search results for my business.
Never have heard a peep from Bing.

Oh, they're aggressive alright. Fucking scandalous, thieving motherfuckers at that. In all seriousness, as much as I'm not a fan of government interference, I wonder if it's not time to develop a regulatory scheme when it comes to online advertising. There's a huge conflict of interest where Google holds control to persistently fuck the ranking algorithms to generate increasingly junk results and destroying organic SEO, while charging increasing advertising rates with non-transparent pricing schemes.

Angie's list switched to full pay to play this month for businesses. I was a top contractor on their metro list for over 15 years. Last week they called and said I had 7 days to pick an advertising plan or all of my reviews and information would be dropped from their site. Home Advisors fucked up 15 free years of advertising for me. Usually competition is a good thing, this time is fucked me. Angie's list wants hundreds of dollars per zip code now

Per zip code? Jesus fuck, that's ridiculous. The old fashioned yellow pages were never a useful listing for me, but I do miss the mentality of the old days. It used to be that if you were in the advertising business, then you were in the advertising business and you worked for a fair fee for a fair advertisement. Nowadays, bastards want to gouge you as if you're supposed to be running your business for them.

Yeah last time I advertised with them I picked only 2 zip codes and it was just under 300 month and netted me zip. Home advisors charges per individual lead.
The old phone book days were much simpler but outrageously expensive.

 

[SwimExpert]

I don't think it compares to Bell and Standard OIL.

Changing search engine is very easy, unlike trying to operate outside of hardware Bell monopolized.

AT&T was, at the time, the sole provider of telephone service throughout most of the United States. Furthermore, most telephonic equipment in the United States was produced by its subsidiary,Western Electric

Breakup of the Bell System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Google has no monopoly on anything it does really, it's just popular.

I disagree completely. Google has developed a pervasive infrastructure. Google is in the operating system business, the web browser business, there's google docs, email, domains, website design. All of these things, in and of themselves, create a substantial conflict of interest, at the very least, because they all have an impact on pressuring advertisers to spend more money on ad sales. But even as we branch out beyond those, the vast Google infrastructure based on interfaced connectivity, which leads people to always come back to using Google, even sometimes when you didn't want to.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

It needs to be done. Yes. Google has purposely turned themselves into shit now that they have an effective monopoly. Being shit is more profitable when you have a monopoly. A free market needs competition in order to work well and produce the best products.

Wow, did not expect that from you, but I agree entirely. You must have had a sudden attack of lucidity.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

It needs to be done. Yes. Google has purposely turned themselves into shit now that they have an effective monopoly. Being shit is more profitable when you have a monopoly. A free market needs competition in order to work well and produce the best products.

Oh my, this is a first...,we agree...,

I had the same reaction.

 

[SYTFE]

Google's CPC simply reflect competition. It's a bidding war, remember. You are bidding against every other wedding cake business, and some of the other guys are setting higher bids.

 

[AntonToo]

I disagree completely. Google has developed a pervasive infrastructure.

Ok lets go through it:

Google is in the operating system business,

Where it has stiff competetion, Microsoft Windows dominates PCs and iOS is a strong alternative on mobile devices, although Apple tied it to Apple hardware, unlike vendor agnostic Android.

the web browser business,

Again chrome is not popular for lack of competition: Internet Explorer is bundled on Windows PCs and Safari in iOS, there is also Fire Fox.

there's google docs, email, domains, website design.

Again, MS Office products dominate document processing along with PDF products, and Gmail has much competition.

I use Gmail because it's a great email service and I use Google Maps because it is the best GPS software.

All of these things, in and of themselves, create a substantial conflict of interest, at the very least, because they all have an impact on pressuring advertisers to spend more money on ad sales. But even as we branch out beyond those, the vast Google infrastructure based on interfaced connectivity, which leads people to always come back to using Google, even sometimes when you didn't want to.

Conflict of interest? I don't understand that giving how open Google products operate and how they integrate with other vendor products, unlike Apple products for example.

Google has much competition in everything it does, but they manage to out-compete and do so on fair terms as far as I can see.

 

[SwimExpert]

Not true. You just have to be very, very creative and know what you're doing. It isn't easy though, but the best tip is to focus on the long tail...

No, it really is true. One way, or another, it costs you. And Google's goal is to make it so difficult and costly that people will simply acquiesce to being entirely dependent on paid advertising. The whole idea of focusing on the long tail is actually a bunch of bullshit, but your bringing it up highlights my point about how it's all built on a game of increasing spending on meaningless results.

To explain, first consider the fact that unless you're in the business of blogging, the "long tail" is pretty much going to be nonexistent. Let's say you're a plumber. You have a website so that potential customers can hopefully find you. I live in your town and I need a plumber. What kind of long tail search could I honestly be performing?

Second, let's also consider the fact that long tails do not increase relevance of search results, they decrease relevance. Let's imagine I perform a search for "plumbers in Metropolis who specialize in septic tank problems." All these extra keywords increase the avenues from which results may be returned, and lead to such first page results as "Metropolis Plumbers Association Gala Runs Into Problems" etc. Google will deem this result to be relevant, even though it's anything but.

The idea of focusing on the long tail to improve results stems from Google's drive to promote more blogging and article results, while suppressing websites of businesses who are trying to reach a customer base. It increases the overall scope of internet based advertising as those types of websites themselves make money primarily from advertising, including Google's own integrated ad platform. In short, it is only good for generating results for promoting internet activity based on web surfing and perpetual click through actions. Not for a results based system of bringing users to a desired end point.

Not really. Social activity, including G+, isn't really factored into their ranking algorithms. It's almost entirely based on quality backlinks and on-site engagement.

I'm afraid your information is extremely outdated. First, social activity does indeed factor on. Websites like Facebook are indexed. Second, even your usage of "quality" backlink highlights that fact. Not all backlinks are created equal, and thus a social media presence increases the alleged quality of a backlink.

That aside, what you're not understanding is that Google wants you to use their products, and is able to give preference to people who do. Being on Google+ leads to being listed elsewhere within the Googlesphere, and results in increased search rankings. For example, if you put your plumbing business on Google+, you can now be reviewed in Google. Google likes this, because they want to increase the utilization of Google Reviews. You can now gain increased ranking for search results, so that when someone searches for a plumber, your Google Business pops up in the results.

The truth of the matter is that Google's algorithms utilize well over a hundred factors, with most of them being seemingly arbitrary, or more commonly being intended to push additional Google products or thwart potential advertisers from gaining a high organic ranking. Google penalizes your ranking if they don't like your web page design, for crying out loud.