Trump releases seven-point health care reform plan

[dblack]

Same shit, different day. Trump wants to call the mandate a tax incentive instead. Same difference. Same shit.

 

[Dana7360]

How do you propose to cover those with preexisting conditions?

That is a problem which can only be answered with cost sharing. Kinda like car insurance. Except for one thing, if you don't have the money you don't insure a BMW. But with healthcare, there really isn't a "Hugo" option.

Covering those with a preexisting condition is the number one reason that healthcare insurers are getting out of Obamacare. It is kinda like two people go into McDonalds hungry. One orders 2 cheeseburgers, the other orders 20 cheeseburgers. They then both pay the same. How is the cost for the 22 burgers divided?

No it's not like that at all.

I'm one of millions of Americans who paid premiums, co-payments and deductibles all my adult life. I've never missed a payment and I've never gone without insurance.

I've been paying into insurance all my adult life. That's tens of thousands of dollars at least since it's been nearly 30 years.

The ONLY reason I'm losing my insurance is because I'm getting divorced. My insurance was with my soon to be ex-husband's policy through his work. I can stay on it for 3 years after the divorce but after that, I'm on my own.

I was diagnosed with a very deadly form of breast cancer 5 years ago. Two hormones my body naturally produces are it's food to grow. So without very costly medication to block those hormones, it will return and kill me. As it did to 4 of my relatives in the past, even though they had complete mastectomies.

Obamacare removes the pre existing conditions for insurance. If the pre existing clause returns I will never be able to get insurance again. I won't be able to get any health care until I'm 65 and medicare kicks in.

I have the money to pay for insurance. I want to buy insurance. The problem is NO ONE WILL SELL IT TO ME if the pre existing condition clause returns.

I looked one of my worst fears dead on and won. I made it to the 5 year cure mark in January. But because I was strong, because I fought and because I won, insurance companies will never sell me insurance if the pre existing condition clause returns.

So you're saying that I, a person who paid into the system all her life, should be denied the right to live just because I get divorced?

Do you see how wrong and selfish that is?

Can you afford the cost of a mammogram without insurance to help? Can you pay for the cost of cancer medications without insurance to help? Can you keep your home, your way of life and security if you are diagnosed with a very deadly disease and no insurance to help with the costs?

No you can't. So you have to make the choice between living or being financially destroyed.

Do you honestly believe it's fair to those of us who through no fault of our own lost our insurance to tell us just because you beat a very deadly disease you can no longer have health care?

Because that's what you're doing by trying to justify bringing back that pre existing condition clause.

What the hell do you mean "it is not like that at all?" Firstly I am glad you won your battle.

But let's say you were one of the people in my scenario. You are the one taking 20 hamburgers. I am the one taking two. If split completely down the middle you pay for 11 and I pay for 11. Except you get 18 more hamburgers.

Now don't take this wrongly, I am glad you got the help you needed but it sounds to me you didn't get it on Obamacare. You like most people were on employer-based healthcare insurance, not Obamacare. Let me tell you, there is a big difference. And I don't know of anyone refused coverage on an employer based plan. What the insurance companies will do is raise the rates or drop the group from coverage if there are too many claims.

So my example is like Obamacare. The only way for the cost to be contained is for people to pay for hamburgers that they never received. So all that has to happen is to get 9 people to "kick in" and pay for hamburgers they never receive. Thus everyone would pay for 2. Which is really good for the one that got 20 but not so much for everyone else.

Yes I have private insurance through my husband's employer.

I will lose it 3 years after the divorce is final. So after 3 years I'm on my own.

I have to buy insurance privately myself not through an employer. And yes, employer insurance is denied. I used to work in the payroll department of a large home improvement corporation. The payroll department also handles insurance applications. I've had many of those applications be returned rejected by the insurance company. Every single one of them because of preexisting conditions. I had to let the employee know about it and it's not pretty. It was usually older employees who were hired to work in the stores. Older employees have a health history and record.

The ONLY way that I will be able to get insurance when the Cobra runs out is if that preexisting conditions clause doesn't exist.

I will have to go on the exchange to buy that insurance. My income is way too high to qualify for any subsidies at all. My only benefit of Obamacare is the preexisting conditions clause is removed. Other than that, no one subsidizes my insurance. I will pay the premiums which will be at least a thousand dollars a month and still won't come even close to the coverage I've had most of my adult life. I've already checked out plans on the exchange hoping that they would be cheaper than the 700 dollars a month it will cost to stay on my existing insurance for 3 years after the divorce is final. It was eye opening. I knew that employer insurance was very good but compared to what's on the exchange, it's much, much better.

You tell me that me paying 12 thousand dollars a year for insurance premiums on top of the deductibles and copayments is making you or anyone else pay my way while I take more than I actually need. The lowest deductible I found was 1000.00 a year. Right now, my deductible is 300 dollars a year. So if you add in that deductible with the premiums the LEAST I'll be paying is 24 thousand dollars a year for heath care. That's not counting the copays and other expenses.

It's not. I'm paying my own way. No one is paying one penny for me. As I have all of my life.

So try to stick with facts before you casually say that I should die just because I got divorced and beat cancer.

No matter if I had not paid into the system since the 1980s, no matter if I didn't have the income to pay and needed help, it's LIFE. Not some theoretical game. It's LIFE. No one should ever be denied health care simply because they were sick sometime in their life and lost their insurance because they got divorced. No one should ever be denied proper health care for any reason.

We're all in this together. I paid for decades when I never saw a doctor beyond yearly physicals. That money was used by the insurance company to pay other people's bills. I've paid income, social security and medicare taxes since 1976. I still have not taken one dime beyond a tax refund check from our government in my life. I don't whine about it nor do I believe I have a right to make someone die because I believe that I have the right to deny someone health care simply because it might cost me something. Oh by the way, I pay federal income taxes just like everyone else. I've been subsidizing Obamacare all along. I have no problem with it.

That's the difference here.

I have no problem paying for someone else to have proper health care.

You do.

Yeah, once again..someone whose income is "way too high" to qualify for subsidies, whining about having to pay for her own medical.

I hate entitlement creeps.

No I'm not whining about it at all.

I'm disgusted that people like you and the person I replied to believe that the preexisting clause should return and prevent me from having insurance and health care until I qualify for medicare.

I have the money to pay my own way. The problem is no one will take my money if that preexisting clause returns. No one will sell it to me and I'll die.

I'm sure you don't have any problem with that.

Which I find disgusting. You don't care that even though I have the money to pay for it, I won't be able to buy it.

If you read my post you would know that your post saying I'm whining about paying for my own insurance is nothing but a lie. I want to pay for insurance. I have the money to pay for it. If the preexisting clause returns no one will take that money I so eagerly want to give them.

How you and people like you can live with yourselves is beyond me.

You people make my skin crawl with disgust.

 

[candycorn]

Like so much Trump offers this health care concept is DIFFERENT. It may not work well but that's "may not" and it deserves a shot. After all, Obamacare proved itself. True, it proved itself a failure, but it was allowed to prove that.....

Before Obamacare, people with PECs could not get insurance. Today they can.
Before Obamacare, insurance was allowed to cap your benefits. Today they cannot.

Can the ACA be improved? Sure. Is it a failure? No. Not by a longshot.

 

[koshergrl]

You morons use the term "insurance" as if it means "care". A reminder....you do not have to have insurance to get care in this country. At least you didn't used to. Now, your care is going to be denied regularly. It already is...you know how Obama's minions are threatening to cut money off to N.C. Because they refuse to behave unconstitutionally? That's how Obamacare works, too. You only get treatment if its approved by your insurance. And they aren't speedy or guaranteed to pay your treatment. And they punish doctors who dare to provide treatment gratis, or outside the parameters of Obama are. I know people who are dying who are waiting to get treatment approved...who are waiting to be given the ok to see specialists.

And because we have Obama are...guess who it is that runs collections for defaulted medical expenses? THE IRS. I spoke to them yesterday. This means that now, if you default on your deductible, ambulance bills, doctor copays...the it's will take all your property upon your death. Oh yes. And they take it ALL. Then they deduct the amount they say you owe, and sometimes release what's left to heirs, but just as often...doesn't.

Spare me the stories about assholes, who are the same assholes that get all poetic over how abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide needs to be used on certain people...totally freak at the thought that they might not get free medical, and might die before they're ready to go!!!! I like to remind those people...hey, assisted suicide.

 

[Slyhunter]

Like so much Trump offers this health care concept is DIFFERENT. It may not work well but that's "may not" and it deserves a shot. After all, Obamacare proved itself. True, it proved itself a failure, but it was allowed to prove that.....

Before Obamacare, people with PECs could not get insurance. Today they can.
Before Obamacare, insurance was allowed to cap your benefits. Today they cannot.

Can the ACA be improved? Sure. Is it a failure? No. Not by a longshot.

What good is insurance no doctors will accept as payment?

 

[hadit]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

Insurance premiums are deductible now, however the fact that you can only deduct that part of healthcare expenses (including health insurance premiums) which exceeds 10% of your income makes the deduction worthless for most people in higher income tax brackets. Most families with income less than $50,000 don't need the deduction because they are either not paying any taxes, on Medicaid or receiving some kind of healthcare subsidy.

The problem is making premiums fully deductible would decrease tax revenue between 50 and 100 billion dollars. Unless congress would find offsetting spending cuts which is rare, making insurance premiums fully deductible would add significantly to the deficit. However, I doubt Trump is concerned about the deficit.

I believe one of the goals of obamadon'tcare is to push more people off employer provided insurance, which is deductable, and on to individual plans, which are not. As you noted, the tax implications are enormous and is something the administration studiously avoids talking about.

 

[candycorn]

Like so much Trump offers this health care concept is DIFFERENT. It may not work well but that's "may not" and it deserves a shot. After all, Obamacare proved itself. True, it proved itself a failure, but it was allowed to prove that.....

Before Obamacare, people with PECs could not get insurance. Today they can.
Before Obamacare, insurance was allowed to cap your benefits. Today they cannot.

Can the ACA be improved? Sure. Is it a failure? No. Not by a longshot.

What good is insurance no doctors will accept as payment?

What good are dollars if you’re in Russia?

 

[Montrovant]

You morons use the term "insurance" as if it means "care". A reminder....you do not have to have insurance to get care in this country. At least you didn't used to. Now, your care is going to be denied regularly. It already is...you know how Obama's minions are threatening to cut money off to N.C. Because they refuse to behave unconstitutionally? That's how Obamacare works, too. You only get treatment if its approved by your insurance. And they aren't speedy or guaranteed to pay your treatment. And they punish doctors who dare to provide treatment gratis, or outside the parameters of Obama are. I know people who are dying who are waiting to get treatment approved...who are waiting to be given the ok to see specialists.

And because we have Obama are...guess who it is that runs collections for defaulted medical expenses? THE IRS. I spoke to them yesterday. This means that now, if you default on your deductible, ambulance bills, doctor copays...the it's will take all your property upon your death. Oh yes. And they take it ALL. Then they deduct the amount they say you owe, and sometimes release what's left to heirs, but just as often...doesn't.

Spare me the stories about assholes, who are the same assholes that get all poetic over how abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide needs to be used on certain people...totally freak at the thought that they might not get free medical, and might die before they're ready to go!!!! I like to remind those people...hey, assisted suicide.

You may not need insurance to get care, but I think for most people, you need insurance to be able to afford care.

 

[koshergrl]

You morons use the term "insurance" as if it means "care". A reminder....you do not have to have insurance to get care in this country. At least you didn't used to. Now, your care is going to be denied regularly. It already is...you know how Obama's minions are threatening to cut money off to N.C. Because they refuse to behave unconstitutionally? That's how Obamacare works, too. You only get treatment if its approved by your insurance. And they aren't speedy or guaranteed to pay your treatment. And they punish doctors who dare to provide treatment gratis, or outside the parameters of Obama are. I know people who are dying who are waiting to get treatment approved...who are waiting to be given the ok to see specialists.

And because we have Obama are...guess who it is that runs collections for defaulted medical expenses? THE IRS. I spoke to them yesterday. This means that now, if you default on your deductible, ambulance bills, doctor copays...the it's will take all your property upon your death. Oh yes. And they take it ALL. Then they deduct the amount they say you owe, and sometimes release what's left to heirs, but just as often...doesn't.

Spare me the stories about assholes, who are the same assholes that get all poetic over how abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide needs to be used on certain people...totally freak at the thought that they might not get free medical, and might die before they're ready to go!!!! I like to remind those people...hey, assisted suicide.

You may not need insurance to get care, but I think for most people, you need insurance to be able to afford care.

So they shouldn't say stupid things like "why should I die just because you think I should pay for my own care?"

 

[rightwinger]

You morons use the term "insurance" as if it means "care". A reminder....you do not have to have insurance to get care in this country. At least you didn't used to. Now, your care is going to be denied regularly. It already is...you know how Obama's minions are threatening to cut money off to N.C. Because they refuse to behave unconstitutionally? That's how Obamacare works, too. You only get treatment if its approved by your insurance. And they aren't speedy or guaranteed to pay your treatment. And they punish doctors who dare to provide treatment gratis, or outside the parameters of Obama are. I know people who are dying who are waiting to get treatment approved...who are waiting to be given the ok to see specialists.

And because we have Obama are...guess who it is that runs collections for defaulted medical expenses? THE IRS. I spoke to them yesterday. This means that now, if you default on your deductible, ambulance bills, doctor copays...the it's will take all your property upon your death. Oh yes. And they take it ALL. Then they deduct the amount they say you owe, and sometimes release what's left to heirs, but just as often...doesn't.

Spare me the stories about assholes, who are the same assholes that get all poetic over how abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide needs to be used on certain people...totally freak at the thought that they might not get free medical, and might die before they're ready to go!!!! I like to remind those people...hey, assisted suicide.

You may not need insurance to get care, but I think for most people, you need insurance to be able to afford care.

So they shouldn't say stupid things like "why should I die just because you think I should pay for my own care?"

Which begs the question....what if you can't afford to pay for your own care? Let em die?

So "Christian" of you

 

[HenryBHough]

Which begs the question....what if you can't afford to pay for your own care? Let em die?

So "Christian" of you

Earlier deaths = fewer people.

Fewer people = less pressure on Mother Gaia.

Less pressure on Mom = reduced AGW.

Why do you so hate the planet?

 

[Montrovant]

You morons use the term "insurance" as if it means "care". A reminder....you do not have to have insurance to get care in this country. At least you didn't used to. Now, your care is going to be denied regularly. It already is...you know how Obama's minions are threatening to cut money off to N.C. Because they refuse to behave unconstitutionally? That's how Obamacare works, too. You only get treatment if its approved by your insurance. And they aren't speedy or guaranteed to pay your treatment. And they punish doctors who dare to provide treatment gratis, or outside the parameters of Obama are. I know people who are dying who are waiting to get treatment approved...who are waiting to be given the ok to see specialists.

And because we have Obama are...guess who it is that runs collections for defaulted medical expenses? THE IRS. I spoke to them yesterday. This means that now, if you default on your deductible, ambulance bills, doctor copays...the it's will take all your property upon your death. Oh yes. And they take it ALL. Then they deduct the amount they say you owe, and sometimes release what's left to heirs, but just as often...doesn't.

Spare me the stories about assholes, who are the same assholes that get all poetic over how abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide needs to be used on certain people...totally freak at the thought that they might not get free medical, and might die before they're ready to go!!!! I like to remind those people...hey, assisted suicide.

You may not need insurance to get care, but I think for most people, you need insurance to be able to afford care.

So they shouldn't say stupid things like "why should I die just because you think I should pay for my own care?"

OK....but who actually said that?

 

[Flopper]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

Insurance premiums are deductible now, however the fact that you can only deduct that part of healthcare expenses (including health insurance premiums) which exceeds 10% of your income makes the deduction worthless for most people in higher income tax brackets. Most families with income less than $50,000 don't need the deduction because they are either not paying any taxes, on Medicaid or receiving some kind of healthcare subsidy.

The problem is making premiums fully deductible would decrease tax revenue between 50 and 100 billion dollars. Unless congress would find offsetting spending cuts which is rare, making insurance premiums fully deductible would add significantly to the deficit. However, I doubt Trump is concerned about the deficit.

I believe one of the goals of obamadon'tcare is to push more people off employer provided insurance, which is deductable, and on to individual plans, which are not. As you noted, the tax implications are enormous and is something the administration studiously avoids talking about.

I don't think those that created the ACA were trying to push people off employer plans. Buying insurance through large group plans is cheaper than buying individual insurance even if the employer contributes nothing. However, an employee that changes jobs often, works as an outside agent, or is self employer can buy individual insurance that is not connected to their employment. For some people this is very beneficial.

 

[hadit]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

Insurance premiums are deductible now, however the fact that you can only deduct that part of healthcare expenses (including health insurance premiums) which exceeds 10% of your income makes the deduction worthless for most people in higher income tax brackets. Most families with income less than $50,000 don't need the deduction because they are either not paying any taxes, on Medicaid or receiving some kind of healthcare subsidy.

The problem is making premiums fully deductible would decrease tax revenue between 50 and 100 billion dollars. Unless congress would find offsetting spending cuts which is rare, making insurance premiums fully deductible would add significantly to the deficit. However, I doubt Trump is concerned about the deficit.

I believe one of the goals of obamadon'tcare is to push more people off employer provided insurance, which is deductable, and on to individual plans, which are not. As you noted, the tax implications are enormous and is something the administration studiously avoids talking about.

I don't think those that created the ACA were trying to push people off employer plans. Buying insurance through large group plans is cheaper than buying individual insurance even if the employer contributes nothing. However, an employee that changes jobs often, works as an outside agent, or is self employer can buy individual insurance that is not connected to their employment. For some people this is very beneficial.

Don't forget the exchanges. What I meant by individual plans were plans purchased by the individual. There's a lot of tax revenue to be gained by pushing people onto none deductible plans.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Trump releases seven-point health care reform plan

 

[EriktheRed]

What I really like is the emphasis on expanded Health Savings Accounts, and the shift in tax deductibility to individuals. Another excellent proposal is price transparency.

Congress must act. Our elected representatives in the House and Senate must:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

Full Health Care reform plan can be read here >>> Healthcare Reform

There is no need to repeal the current health care act. You start the work on the process to make it better.

Repealing it is the way to make it better.

We've already found out its the GOP's way of claiming they were really the ones that were for it.

Only politicians who don't want to get reelected claim they were for it.

You mean like President Obama?

 

[bendog]

Trump releases seven-point health care reform plan

It's strange how the thread came out as something new. I admit I've never seen it, but I can see why Trump wasn't touting it recently. LOL

 

[Flopper]

i really like the full deduction part. It frees people to make their own choice.

That's the kiss of death. People making their own choices is not the goal.

Insurance premiums are deductible now, however the fact that you can only deduct that part of healthcare expenses (including health insurance premiums) which exceeds 10% of your income makes the deduction worthless for most people in higher income tax brackets. Most families with income less than $50,000 don't need the deduction because they are either not paying any taxes, on Medicaid or receiving some kind of healthcare subsidy.

The problem is making premiums fully deductible would decrease tax revenue between 50 and 100 billion dollars. Unless congress would find offsetting spending cuts which is rare, making insurance premiums fully deductible would add significantly to the deficit. However, I doubt Trump is concerned about the deficit.

I believe one of the goals of obamadon'tcare is to push more people off employer provided insurance, which is deductable, and on to individual plans, which are not. As you noted, the tax implications are enormous and is something the administration studiously avoids talking about.

I don't think those that created the ACA were trying to push people off employer plans. Buying insurance through large group plans is cheaper than buying individual insurance even if the employer contributes nothing. However, an employee that changes jobs often, works as an outside agent, or is self employer can buy individual insurance that is not connected to their employment. For some people this is very beneficial.

Don't forget the exchanges. What I meant by individual plans were plans purchased by the individual. There's a lot of tax revenue to be gained by pushing people onto none deductible plans.

I'm not clear on what mean by nondeductible plans. All health premiums that are paid with pre-tax dollars, which means they are deducted from your wages before taxes are applied are deductible. However, any portion of the premium that is paid by a subsidy or an employer is not deductible.

It's doesn't matter where you get your health insurance, the exchange, employer, or directly from the insurer, the portion of the premium that you pay with pre-tax dollars can be reported as a deductible. However, most people get no benefit from the deduction since you have to itemize to claim it and only that portion of your healthcare expense, including premiums, that exceed 10% of your income reduces your taxable income. So changing the law so all health insurance premiums you pay reduce taxable income would be a big hit on tax revenue.