Torture and College Life

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PoliticalChic, May 14, 2009.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    “Now we are engaged in a great [civil] war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure.”
    And the best defense against the possibility of another 9/11 is a mélange of distresses that every college student goes through, voluntarily.
    According to the NYTimes, this is it:

    NYTimes outline of “torture techniques”
    Interrogation Techniques - Interactive Graphic - NYTimes.com

    And below, is pretty much the way I remember the ‘torture.’

    1. Walling: "A flexible false wall will be constructed. The individual is placed with his heels touching the wall: The interrogator pulls the individual forward and then quickly and firmly pushes the individual into the wall. It is the individual's shoulder blades that hit the wall."

    Anyone who’s been at a concert, or a sale at Nordstrom’s has been through this one. Any permanent injuries?

    2. The Facial (or Insult) Slap (Bybee memo, August 1, 2002)

    "With the facial slap or insult slap, the interrogator slaps the individual's face with fingers slightly spread. The hand makes contact with the area directly between the tip of the individual's chin and the bottom of the corresponding earlobe. The interrogator invades the individual's personal space.”

    This one is a toughie, since women today will put up with any behavior, but you guys who have gone out with ladies, may have had to contend with this ‘torture.’

    3. Cramped Confinement & insects Placed In a Confinement Box (Bybee memo, August 1, 2002)

    "You would like to place (Abu) Zubaydah in a cramped confinement box with an insect. You have informed us that he appears to have a fear of insects. …place a harmless insect in the box."

    There was the time we took a cabin in the woods. Yes, I was exposed to this horrid torture!

    4. "With respect to the small confinement box, you have informed us that he would spend at most two hours in this box ... For the larger box, in which he can both stand and sit, he may be placed in this box for up to eighteen hours at a time ..."

    It’ s also known by it’s alternate title: the dreaded ‘college dorm room!’ In one of the dorm rooms in Columbia, you actually had to have the door open to fit the bed!

    5. Dietary Manipulation (Bradbury memo, May 10, 2005)
    "This technique involves the substitution of commercial liquid meal replacements for normal food, presenting detainees with a bland, unappetizing, but nutritionally complete diet."

    Now, this is torture. I remember after the first two weeks of staying up until 3 in the morning and eating nothing but junk food I was already 10 pounds heavier. You know what came next: the living hell of NutriSystem!

    "Medical officers are required to ensure adequate fluid and nutritional intake, and frequent medial monitoring takes place while any detainee is undergoing dietary manipulation."

    Plus, I didn’t get any medical officer, although there was this cute pre-med soph…

    6. Nudity (Bradury memo, May 10, 2005)

    "This technique is used to cause psychological discomfort, particularly if a detainee, for cultural or other reasons, is especially modest. When the technique is employed, clothing can be provided as an instant reward for cooperation... Interrogators can exploit the detainee's fear of being seen naked."

    No details here, but I will tell you that at Vassar, we had co-ed bathrooms and showers.


    7. Abdominal Slap (Bradbury memo, May 10, 2005)

    "In this technique, the interrogator strikes the abdomen of the detainee with the back of his open hand. The interrogator must have no rings or other jewelry on his hand. The interrogator is positioned directly in front of the detainee, generally no more than than 18 inches from the detainees. With his fingers held tightly together and fully extended, and with his palm toward the interrogator's own body, using his elbow as a fixed pivot point, the interrogator slaps the detainee in the detainee's abdomen. The interrogator may not use a fist, and the slap must be delivered above the navel and below the sternum.”

    Dreadful! Why, this is almost as bad as Dodge Ball!

    8. Water Dousing and "Flicking" (Bradbury memo, May 10, 2005)

    "Cold water is poured on the detainee either from a container or from a hose without a nozzle.”

    Do you have an older brother? Need I say more?

    "… You have also described a variation of water dousing involving much smaller quantities of water; this variation is known as 'flicking.' Flicking of water is achieved by the interrogator wetting his fingers and then flicking them at the detainee, propelling droplets at the detainee."

    This can’t be serious.

    9. Sleep Deprivation (more than 48 hours) (Bradbury memo, May 10, 2005)

    I get the heebie-jeebies just thinking of those No-Doz days, and nights.

    "… In lieu of standing sleep deprivation, a detainee may instead be seated on and shackled to a small stool. The stool supports the detainee's weight, but is too small to permit the subject to balance himself sufficiently to go to sleep…

    I’ve been in college lectures in similar situations.


    10. Waterboarding (Bybee memo, August 1, 2002)
    "Finally, you would like to use a technique called the 'waterboard.’ “..air flow is slightly restricted for 20 to 40 seconds."

    Here is the biggie, waterboarding, or as we called it, Chug-a-Lug:

    [youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/COlUed785dw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/COlUed785dw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
    Wow, kind of reminds you of that line from &#8220;Pulp Fiction,&#8221;
    "You hear me talking, hill-billy boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on yer ass."

    Is it possible that we have defined &#8216;torture&#8217; down to this level? I think not. Those claiming it&#8217;s torture are simply the same anti-war, America-hating liberals with Bush Derangement Syndrome, hiding behind some feigned righteous indignation as a strategy to impede the success of American policy, in the hopes of another Viet Nam debacle.

    Winston Churchill famously said &#8220;We sleep soundly in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf."

    Little did he suspect that we would, instead, become a nation of girly-men.
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  2. Pyrite
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    Pyrite Member

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    Usually your arguments are deserving of more respect than this one, but this post is contemptable.

    Drinking a lot of something is not waterboarding, being deprived of sleep for a week or more is not the same as your college all-nighters.

    Not every technique on this list is a problem for most opponents of torture. To act as if they were is disengenuous. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions, and "walling" are what most of us take issue with.
     
  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Just so that I can judge which is actually contemptible, girl-man, please provide a list of the terrorists who were treated with these techniques and subsequently died, were permanently maimed, and/or spent time in intensive care.
     
  4. Nik
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    Nik Senior Member

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    Dilawar and Habibullah. Oh wait, they weren't terrorists tho, just Arabs who got swept up in the US dragnet.

    Senate Panel's Report Links Detainees' Murders to Bush's Torture Policy

    Still think its all fun and games, dipshit?
     
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  5. Iriemon
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    Iriemon VIP Member

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    Yep. And to think we convicted all those poor Japanese fellows after WWII for a bunch of college pranks. What were those hard assed guys on the military commissions thinking?

    Waterboard? You mean a chugging contest?

    Cigarette burning? Who never played "hold the roach" ha ha.

    Bamboo shoots? I mean, like you never got a paper cut? They're like so wicked.

    Rape? Heck there was lots of sex going on in college.

    Too bad for the Japanese we sentenced to years of hard labor or death we didn't have the enlightened view we have now.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  6. Newby
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    Newby Does it get any better? Supporting Member

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    Too bad that you continue to use the bogus Japanese arguement after myriads of people have explained the differences to you. :lol:
     
  7. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Now, now, girly-man, watch your language, after all you're not talking to your mom.

    So you contend that the interrogation techniques listed in my college-prank post caused the deaths that you note?

    Have someone more literate read the report that you link to you, since your hate of America is clouding what abiltiy at comprehension you might have, in a calmer state.

    "Indeed, a report into detainee abuse completed in 2004 by Vice Admiral Albert T. Church, the former Naval inspector general, who conducted an investigation into detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan at the request of then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, specifically cleared Pentagon officials stating they “did not promulgate interrogation policies . . . that directed, sanctioned or encouraged the torture or abuse of detainees."

    A declassified version of the 360-page Church report, delivered to Congress in March 2004, said there was "no policy that condoned or authorized either abuse or torture," which critics of the Bush administration believed was a cover-up."
    Senate Panel's Report Links Detainees' Murders to Bush's Torture Policy


    The operative phrase: "did not promulgate interrogation policies . . . that directed, sanctioned or encouraged the torture or abuse of detainees."

    Further, it is telling that 'news' of the deaths of prisoners resulting from the listed techniques appears in this 'pubreport,' or 'impeachbush,' or 'islamicblog,' but not splashed on the front pages of the oh so 'conservative' NYTimes, or the LATimes, or the Washington Post, or the Boston Globe, or even the WSJournal.

    Does this not seem odd to you, Nikki, or have you not looked under each and every rock, yet?

    I bet the girl scouts could come up with some more serious techniques, but then you'd claim that they were Bush-robot-fascists.

    Nicht wahr?
     
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  8. Pyrite
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    Pyrite Member

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    Something doesn't have to maim you to be torture. Just because you've taken precautions not to cause permanent damage doesn't mean you aren't still torturing a person.

    But still, from the red cross at The Red Cross Torture Report: What It Means - The New York Review of Books:
    Also, is the name calling really necessary, or do you think you could discuss matters in the manner of an adult?
     
  9. DiamondDave
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    DiamondDave Army Vet

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    Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

    Go thru some military training and get back to me
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    Hey, didn't you read the NYTimes list of interrogation techniques?

    Name-calling and hurt-feelings were numbers 11 and 12. But, heck, you're not my prisoner, and probably not a terrorist, so I take it back. Kiss,kiss- feel better?

    "Something doesn't have to maim you to be torture...' Yeah, it does. Otherwise its enhanced interrogation.

    The Red Cross is not what I'd call a neutral observer:
    "According to a Defense Department source citing internal Pentagon documents, the ICRC team leader told U.S. authorities at Camp Bucca: "You people are no better than and no different than the Nazi concentration camp guards." She was upset about not being granted immediate access shortly after a prison riot, ..."
    GayandRight: The Red Cross' bias against the US....

    Which leads to this: "... confirmed in the accounts of at least two of the detainees in the ICRC report, including that of Khaled Shaik Mohammed."

    This is your evidence and best witness?
     

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