Time to attack iran

[elvis]

how many of those western countries were terrorized by melting skyscrapers and people plunging to their deaths?

Which had what to do with Iraq?

This is what I don't understand about the left's position on Iraq. I get that Iraq and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Fine. But then, no COUNTRY did have anything to do with 9/11. Sure, AQ was using Afghanistan, but it didn't really matter what country it was. Any would have done just as well.

It just seems as if we are playing cat and mouse with the truth. AQ is a multi-national entity with no firm ties to any state. The operate where there is a vacuum of control in a nation-state. Like the tribal areas of Pakistan or in Somalia or anywhere else where people are not strong enough or willing enough to prevent them from operating.

I don't feel like defending Iraq like I could do because now I'm a little less certain that we went there for the US's purposes. After listening to Richard Haas and a couple of other people, it might just be that we invaded Iraq to pursue the foreign policy of Israel rather than the US. But, despite that possibility, a "hot" war between the terrorist factions and the US had to be joined somewhere. Iraq ended up being that place. Iraq allowed the US to engage mass numbers of terrorists and decisively engage and kill them. Those engagements had to happen somewhere.

If we had been pursuing the foreign policy of Israel, we would have attacked Iran, not Iraq.

 

[rhodescholar]

very good. re-instating the draft would certainly quench the war-talk.

Hardly. I would GLADLY be re-instated, so long as it was to fly into Iran and bring justice to the fascist false scholarly murderous dogs running that nation...

the world is a little bigger than your own delusional bubble.

When you stop collecting your welfare check, communist tool, let us know.

Until then, us wealth creators paying to carry you on our backs are not at all interested in your (worthless) opinions.

 

[Nik]

very good. re-instating the draft would certainly quench the war-talk.

Hardly. I would GLADLY be re-instated, so long as it was to fly into Iran and bring justice to the fascist false scholarly murderous dogs running that nation...

Ah, yes. Fly into Iran. And we all know the bombs you drop will only hit Ahmadinejad supporters.

 

[Nik]

Hardly. I would GLADLY be re-instated, so long as it was to fly into Iran and bring justice to the fascist false scholarly murderous dogs running that nation...

the world is a little bigger than your own delusional bubble.

When you stop collecting your welfare check, communist tool, let us know.

Until then, us wealth creators paying to carry you on our backs are not at all interested in your (worthless) opinions.

You, a wealth creator?

 

[rhodescholar]

Ah, yes. Fly into Iran. And we all know the bombs you drop will only hit Ahmadinejad supporters.

This coming from a pacifist fool who would have begged Hitler not to roll over him...weak-minded loser.

You, a wealth creator?

That's right sweetie - I own and run my own business...and you collect welfare checks...

 

[Nik]

Ah, yes. Fly into Iran. And we all know the bombs you drop will only hit Ahmadinejad supporters.

This coming from a pacifist fool who would have begged Hitler not to roll over him...weak-minded loser.

Yes I'm a pacifist fool cause I don't like killing civilians. Why are you so bloodthirsty Rhodes?

You, a wealth creator?

That's right sweetie - I own and run my own business...and you collect welfare checks...

Congratulations, I own and run my own business too, while being a full time law student.

Collect welfare checks? Hardly. My monthly rent is about 2x what welfare pays out each month.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Yes, FDR - bury our heads in the sand, and hope all of the world's conflicts just blow away in the wind...as if they wouldn't affect us

FDR was NOT isolationist. He wanted to get involved but didn't have the support. 80 percent of the country was against getting involved in World War II until December 7.

Hi Elvis.

One can argue that you are correct, but I can also argue where was his leadership?

There are conspiracy theories that he intentionally kept the fleet in Hawaii to be attacked. It is well known that he was very much in favor of entering the war, but needed an event to use as a casus belli.

Sometimes being a leader means doing something that is unpopular (do I hear 2003 Iraq war - or even more to the point, how about 2009 Iran war?) but is better in the long run.

Unfortunately, shortsighted, self-serving leaders are more interested in scoring points than pursuing better decisions - like the dimwitted senators and congressmen railing about the AIG bonuses recently. It wasn't until the media-manufactured furor did they say anything and even then, their ideas sucked - they were only interested in placated an angry public - not providing intelligent, long-term solutions.

Sometimes a good leader isn't a Bill Clinton-wet my finger and see which way the polls are blowing - it means being definitive and having a press conference/national address, where a president can explain his reasoning - and if its sound, and he is of good character, can convince enough of the public his decision is just and justified.

And there are conspiracie theories that Bush let 9/11 happen so he could go to war in Iraq and going into Iraq was widely supported by both Democrats and Republicans in congress and the american people.

It wasn't until we accomplished the mission of removing Saddam from power, then realizing the leadership had no plan for AFTER his regime was removed, that public opinion soured and congresspeople went back on their original decisions.

But I digress...go on with the thread now people....

 

[Gunny]

Whatever dude. Look at the asshole's history, He attained power as a thug and was a thug as a leader. Thugs always go for the best weapons and he had the oil to buy them. He used possessed and used WMDs in the past, and would have done so again.

Look at the religious thugs in Iran. What are THEY doing? The same thing. Nuclear weapons is a means to make nations like the US, Russia and China think twice about screwing with them.

Try the logic and common sense factors sometimes. They actually work.

I'm not disagreeing he was a thug or attained power was a thug. However, he was disarmed since the early 90's when we first invaded, and Saddam was bluffing since. The problem is, instead of Iran, America did.

We didn't know he was bluffing until after the fact.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

There's only ONE way to end all this war mongering from right wing pea brains...

AND, send Jennifer Sarah Bolton the first notice...

Ummm dude that would ummm like umm totally give the ummmm warmongers like umm a huge pool of ummmm yeah young like americans to ummm send to fight and like die so like then maybe there wouldn't be unemployment like kinda um you know.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There's only ONE way to end all this war mongering from right wing pea brains...

AND, send Jennifer Sarah Bolton the first notice...

Ummm dude that would ummm like umm totally give the ummmm warmongers like umm a huge pool of ummmm yeah young like americans to ummm send to fight and like die so like then maybe there wouldn't be unemployment like kinda um you know.

Yes, drafting people would certainly lower the unemployment numbers, but sending people to go and fight in a war doesn't help the economy in any way.

 

[rhodescholar]

Yes, drafting people would certainly lower the unemployment numbers, but sending people to go and fight in a war doesn't help the economy in any way.

Wrong mongoloid, wars are VERY helpful to the economy, but then communists are not much interested in facts...

And have you addressed the question of why Iran is blocking inspections?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yes, drafting people would certainly lower the unemployment numbers, but sending people to go and fight in a war doesn't help the economy in any way.

Wrong mongoloid, wars are VERY helpful to the economy, but then communists are not much interested in facts...

And have you addressed the question of why Iran is blocking inspections?

I'm the opposite of a communist, as I am a free market capitalist. At any rate, wars are not good for the economy in any way shape or form.

Bastiat: Selected Essays, Chapter 1, What Is Seen and What Is Not Seen | Library of Economics and Liberty

I'd explain it to you myself, but you're unlikely to listen to me. Of course you're unlikely to read the above link but it's far easier than me explaining basic economics to you.

 

[rhodescholar]

I'm the opposite of a communist, as I am a free market capitalist.

You're an idiot and a lying piece of shit.

Why can't you answer the question: why is iran blocking inspectors, and how can the IAEA gather evidence if they are being prevented from conducting them?

And as far as wars and the economy, it was WW2 that got the US out of the Great Depression fucktard...talk about a need for understanding basic economics...

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I'm the opposite of a communist, as I am a free market capitalist.

You're an idiot and a lying piece of shit.

Why can't you answer the question: why is iran blocking inspectors, and how can the IAEA gather evidence if they are being prevented from conducting them?

And as far as wars and the economy, it was WW2 that got the US out of the Great Depression fucktard...talk about a need for understanding basic economics...

I've never understood how any conservative could fall for that fallacy, that WW2 somehow brought us out of the Great Depression. If you can clearly see how the government made the Depression worse through its New Deal policies but somehow think that the government spending in WW2 had a different effect then you are sadly mistaken.

By taking money out of the private sector to fund the war the government hurt the economy because it's in the private sector where real wealth is created. The fact that there was rationing, price controls, and severe shortages during WW2 because the manufacturing market was creating things for war rather than items that people needed at home certainly wasn't indicative of a healthy economy.

The truth is that the economy didn't recover until after WW2 when government spending was sharply reduced and government control over the economy was lessened.

"War prosperity is like the prosperity that an earthquake or a plague brings." - Ludwig von Mises

 

[editec]

They didn't take money out of the economy to fight WWII.

They invented money to fight that war.


It astounds me that you people think money is real sometimes, it really does.

 

[JW Frogen]

We should throw all the dice we have and try to help the Iranian democracy movement every way we can. (Hello, President Obama, you are the one they have been waiting for).

We need to do this before we strike at their nuclear program, which we will have to do if it comes close to weaponisation. We will have no other choice.

I do not think most Iranians want to go down the road of Iranian nuclear weapons and conflict, I think the last election fraud proves this.

Let us try to help most Iranians take control of their country before we strike at the Iranian regime.

 

[rhodescholar]

We should throw all the dice we have and try to help the Iranian democracy movement every way we can. (Hello, President Obama, you are the one they have been waiting for).

We need to do this before we strike at their nuclear program, which we will have to do if it comes close to weaponisation. We will have no other choice.

I do not think most Iranians want to go down the road of Iranian nuclear weapons and conflict, I think the last election fraud proves this.

Let us try to help most Iranians take control of their country before we strike at the Iranian regime.

Hi JW, do you have proposals on doing so? What are your thoughts...

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

Which had what to do with Iraq?

This is what I don't understand about the left's position on Iraq. I get that Iraq and Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Fine. But then, no COUNTRY did have anything to do with 9/11. Sure, AQ was using Afghanistan, but it didn't really matter what country it was. Any would have done just as well.

It just seems as if we are playing cat and mouse with the truth. AQ is a multi-national entity with no firm ties to any state. The operate where there is a vacuum of control in a nation-state. Like the tribal areas of Pakistan or in Somalia or anywhere else where people are not strong enough or willing enough to prevent them from operating.

I don't feel like defending Iraq like I could do because now I'm a little less certain that we went there for the US's purposes. After listening to Richard Haas and a couple of other people, it might just be that we invaded Iraq to pursue the foreign policy of Israel rather than the US. But, despite that possibility, a "hot" war between the terrorist factions and the US had to be joined somewhere. Iraq ended up being that place. Iraq allowed the US to engage mass numbers of terrorists and decisively engage and kill them. Those engagements had to happen somewhere.

If we had been pursuing the foreign policy of Israel, we would have attacked Iran, not Iraq.

Do you know who wrote the Likud Party's foreign policy platform when they took power back in the Nineties? Three guesses, and the first two don't count.

 

[Tommy Lucchese]

FYI: Britain will actively work against us on attacking Iran (they get eighty percent of their oil from there), Iraq has a mutual defense treaty with Iran and will support them over us, putting our troops there at risk too, and Iran has been burying Silkworm missiles up and down the Straits of Hormuz for the last ten years so they can block the Straits with sunken tankers and triple the price of oil in case of an attack.

Have a nice day.

 

[rhodescholar]

FYI: Britain will actively work against us on attacking Iran (they get eighty percent of their oil from there), Iraq has a mutual defense treaty with Iran and will support them over us, putting our troops there at risk too, and Iran has been burying Silkworm missiles up and down the Straits of Hormuz for the last ten years so they can block the Straits with sunken tankers and triple the price of oil in case of an attack.

Have a nice day.

80%? Where did you get that figure from?

And Iraq is as suspicious of iran's motives as the rest of the world.

As for the silkworms, don't think we haven't already addressed them