Three gun control proposals that will actually work

[NYcarbineer]

So banks will have to allow guns?

That will be fun.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Awesome. So gun manufacturers are immune from federal lawsuit, but if I dont want guns on my property its my fault if someone gets shot.

Thats fair

 

[Mac1958]

2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking...

Seems to me the publicity that these people get is a big part of this. Sick people who would otherwise just off themselves want to be infamous. I agree that reporting their names just exacerbates the problem.

But no doubt, someone somewhere would figure out who it was, it would make its way onto social media, and that would be that. Every time, I'd guess.

I don't know how this gets fixed.
.

 

[jon_berzerk]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Mass shootings get the attention but they are not the problem. It's the everyday shooting . And those don't happen in "gun free zones "

many times they do

 

[SwimExpert]

2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking

Rabbi never fails to demonstrate how clueless he is.

First problem is that your proposal would be unconstitutional. It's called freedom of the press, and it exists for a reason.

Second problem is that you fail to understand the "15 minutes" that these people are allegedly seeking. It's not fame that motivates people. It's attention. There is a difference. People who commit these mass shootings to seek attention are trying to draw attention to their own suffering, perceived injustices they've experienced....things like that. They're not looking to be the next Morgan fucking Freeman, you idiot. It's a desperate act begging for help.

This is where the whole "we need to improve our mental health treatment access" argument comes from. Sadly, people who are Rabbi level stupid have made short work to twist that into the idea that "crazy" people are the problem, and have gone on to stigmatize mental health and turn anyone who goes to a shrink into a scape goat.

 

[JimH52]

Bravo Rabbi, good place to start. Another suggestion would be most states do not allow guns in the same residence with a convicted felon. Extend that to the mentally ill.

The "mentally ill"? You think Trump wouldn't fight before he gave up his guns?

 

[jon_berzerk]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

1 Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act.

we should originally much of it was found unconstitutional

2 Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment.

only in a voluntary manner otherwise it would be counter to the 1st amendment

3 Outlaw public gun free zones

gun free zones only offer a false sense of security they should be gotten rid of

as for the private property the owner should be able to decide

i could not go along with a private property owner getting sued for for someone getting shot on his/her gun free zone

any less then any other property owner

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's a fail.
Working on girders of a high rise is not comparable to eating in a posted restaurant.

What does that have to do with the point?

This is simple, and you're a simpleton. It's in your native language, you should grasp it.

if gun free zones are automatically risky, then by entering a gun free zone, you are knowingly accepting that risk. You willfully engaged in that risky activity

This is correct, but you do the exact same thing when you go to an establishment that sells alcohol.

You drink alcohol on their property with full knowledge of it's effects. Yet, if they continue serving you alcohol after you are impaired, the bar or restaurant can be held liable if you get into a car accident and kill somebody on the way home.

The difference is the restaurant isn't automatically liable. If I have one beer and that has nothing to do with the accident they can't be sued. You have to show they acted with wrecklessness. Like serving me when I was clearly intoxicated and probably about to drive. Rabbi is proposing that just a gun free policy makes them liable. And again, if that's enough to be "risky" then that means you assumed the risk by going there, again that doesn't apply to a bar

Sure it does. When you decide to drink alcohol at that bar, you assume the risk of getting too loaded and getting into an accident. The bar owner too is liable for creating that risk.

Now don't get me wrong, it's not that I agree with it, but merely pointing out how liability works. I don't know where and when, but according to a work associate that also works on the side teaching CCW classes, a store owner was sued for liability because a customer was forced to disarm before entering his store and suffered some kind of an attack. I never looked into the story and only assuming what he told me was the truth since he teaches the classes.

Years ago companies used to throw office parties. The owner would get a full stocked bar and people would party right in their workplace. You don't see much of that anymore because the business owner could be held liable if one of his employees got into an accident. They still have parties on Christmas and whatnot, but no alcohol.

You can't sure the bar for getting loaded there, your victim can. Your victim never assumed liability. You did.

How does that compare to you knowingly going to a gun free zone and suing the property owner?

Actually they can both sue. I don't know how often it happens but it can.

My point is that when you have a business, you can be held liable for the environment you created. I understand what you mean by going there is an option.

I felt the same way when the cradle-to-gravers pushed for a ban on smoking for all indoor public places. Now you can't smoke anywhere in Ohio. No bars, no workplace, no bowling allies, no stores and no restaurants. Nobody had to go to these places if they didn't like smoke, but instead of using that option, they forced businesses to ban smoking in their own place of business. The new law closed down bars and restaurants across the state, but that didn't matter.

 

[The Rabbi]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Awesome. So gun manufacturers are immune from federal lawsuit, but if I dont want guns on my property its my fault if someone gets shot.

Thats fair

Yup it is. There is no reason to hold gun makers responsible for misuse of their products, just like we dont hold car manufacturers liable for drunk drivers.
You are free to post your property but you assume liability on behalf of those you've disarmed.
Makes perfect sense. Unless you're stupid.

 

[paulitician]

Or, dumbfuck Americans could just stop giving guns to their children. Especially mentally disturbed ones. It's the gun-obsessed idiots that are ruining it for all gun owners. Here's yet another horrific case of gun-obsessed jerkoffs allowing their children access to firearms...


Boy Shoots, Kills 8-year-old Girl With His Father's Gun Over Puppy

An 11-year-old boy is facing murder charges after using his father’s gun to shoot and kill 8-year-old McKayla Dyer at a White Pines, Tennessee trailer park on Saturday evening.

The boy, who was not identified by authorities due to his age, became upset with Dyer after she declined to let him see her puppy, WKRN reported. He then allegedly used his father’s gun to shoot and kill the girl. Dyer’s sister witnessed the incident...

More:
http://www.newsweek.com/11-year-old-faces-murder-charge-after-shooting-8-year-old-380159

 

[2aguy]

Weak sauce.

Outlaw public gun free zones. Yes.....that's going to solve the mental illness issue that the next whack job has. He's going to not go on a shooting rampage because there might be a gun in the vicinity.

Brilliant thinking.

Worried about security in a given place? Hand out firearms to every person. It's a sure way for all to remain safe.

Yes….actual research shows that they select targets based on gun free status.

 

[2aguy]

Did gun control work in Australia?

John Howard, who served as prime minister of Australia from 1996 to 2007, is no one's idea of a lefty. He was one of George W. Bush's closest allies, enthusiastically backing the Iraq intervention, and took a hard line domestically against increased immigration and union organizing (pdf).

But one of Howard's other lasting legacies is Australia's gun control regime, first passed in 1996 in response to a massacre in Tasmania that left 35 dead. The law banned semiautomatic and automatic rifles and shotguns. It also instituted a mandatory buy-back program for newly banned weapons.

On Wednesday, Howard took to the Melbourne daily the Age to call on the United States, in light of the Aurora, Colo., massacre, to follow in Australia's footsteps. "There are many American traits which we Australians could well emulate to our great benefit," he concluded. "But when it comes to guns, we have been right to take a radically different path."

So what have the Australian laws actually done for homicide and suicide rates? Howard cites a study (pdf) by Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University finding that the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides. That provides strong circumstantial evidence for the law's effectiveness.

This is what you want? Well, that is what you people are going to get with your continued idiocy concerning the proliferation of firearms in this nation. And when it happens, it will happen exactly as in Australia. A final straw that offends everyone so badly that they simply override the stupidity of the NRA and GOP.

He's wrong gun crime is increasing in Australia, they have Red Zones now where they are finding guns all the time….and a 15 year old immigrant teenager just murdered a police officer with a pistol…biker gangs use guns all the time….

 

[2aguy]

Weak sauce.

Outlaw public gun free zones. Yes.....that's going to solve the mental illness issue that the next whack job has. He's going to not go on a shooting rampage because there might be a gun in the vicinity.

Brilliant thinking.

Worried about security in a given place? Hand out firearms to every person. It's a sure way for all to remain safe.

Can YOU show a link where the mentally ill follow gun laws? NO.
Can YOU show a link where the mentally ill pick zones that ALLOW guns on purpose? Again I think not.
Can you post a link to a gun show where everybody has guns and a shooter bursts in and kills 9, OR 6, how about 3? You can't do that either.

Why would the mentally I'll worry about other people being armed ? They're crazy , they won't give a shit .

No…they aren't crazy and some plan the attack for 6 months to 2 years…….I posted a list of these guys who left journals and videos before they attacked….they all point out they picked targets because they were gun free…

They want a large body count…..they try to surpass each other…..Santa Barbara, the Colorado theater shooter, a kid in Minnesota……numerous others all selected gun free zones.

 

[2aguy]

" the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent,"

What WEAPON replaced the gun? What METHOD of people committing suicide switch to? Those deaths did NOT just disappear, they were merely REPLACED by other weapons and methods.

The preferred method became fire…..look at wikipedia and the list of Australian mass murder..arson kills more people in one shot that guns do….

And the gun crime rate in Australia is now going up, there gun ownership levels are the same as they were before the confiscation………what will they say explains the gun violence when it spikes…….

 

[2aguy]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Private property owners have the right to decide what is allowed on their property without being sued. Maybe we should sue gun manufacturers if their product is used in a crime. Same logic. Except for #2, these are retarded ideas. You do realize that in the "no gun control" era of the "wild wild west" - there were a lot of shootings and it wasn't just the "bad guys" that got it.

That wild west thing is a myth…the west in the towns was more peaceful than people believe because they watch westerns. Actual history is different. And if they can't deny service because it is unconstitutional, they shouldn't be allowed to deny people the Constitutional right to bear arms…..if they violate civil rights they should be sued…right?

 

[2aguy]

You will never ever change the "minds" of these gun control retards. All we can do is point and laugh at their stupidity and give money to the NRA. You can't fix stupid, all we can do is take steps to make sure they don't win.

No right is unlimited, including gun rights. Fixing stupid is recognizing that a certain amount of gun control is rational.

We already have gun control…if you commit a crime with a gun you can be arrested. If you are a convicted felon, if you are caught in mere possession of a gun you can be arrested.

 

[BluesLegend]

You can ban guns but you can't ban human nature and some humans are unfortunately evil murderous filth.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, the west wasn't violent because people were armed. I would like to see the source for the Tombstone notion…there is a lot of mythology from movies out there…

The Culture of Violence in the American West: Myth versus Reality

The mining camps hired “enforcement specialists”—justices of the peace and arbitrators—and developed an extensive body of property and criminal law. As a result, there was very little violence and theft.
The fact that the miners were usually armed also helps to explain why crime was relatively infrequent.
Benson concludes, “The contractual system of law effectively generated cooperation rather than conflict, and on those occasions when conflict arose it was, by and large, effectively quelled through nonviolent means” (1998, 105).

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Theres no reason gun makers need special protection from lawsuits. The alcohol industry doesnt have those special protections. Maybe thats why they go out of their way to encourage the safe and legal consumption of their products.



Awesome. So gun manufacturers are immune from federal lawsuit, but if I dont want guns on my property its my fault if someone gets shot.

Thats fair

Yup it is. There is no reason to hold gun makers responsible for misuse of their products, just like we dont hold car manufacturers liable for drunk drivers.
You are free to post your property but you assume liability on behalf of those you've disarmed.
Makes perfect sense. Unless you're stupid.

No dumbshit. Im not forcing anyone to be on my property disarmed. If you insist on carrying a gun do not come to my house. I have a 3 year old and his chances of death go way up when there is a gun in the house, thats just statistical fact.


And I never said gun manufacturers shoild be held liable for misuse of their product. The federal shield law protects them from ALL lawsuits other than particular kinds that the law excepts. NO OTHER INDUSTRY enjoys the same blanket protections.

 

[The Rabbi]

1) Repeal the 1968 Gun Control act. This Act has totally failed at its purpose of keeping guns from the hands of criminals. The only thing criminal here is the criminalizing of otherwise legal behavior. We have had nearly 50 years of experience with this law. It doesnt work. It needs to go, period.
2) Treat mass shooting perpetrators like rape victims. Ever see a rape victim's name in the paper? No, of course not. Mass shooters should get the same anonymous treatment. Since man of them are motivated by getting their 15 minutes, the knowledge they will get nothing but an obscure grave or jail cell will discourage this kind of celebrity seeking
3) Outlaw public gun free zones, and make private ones liable for shootings on their property. Virtually every mass shooting in this country in the last 20 years has happened in a gun free zone. They dont work. Period. No public property should be off limits to law abiding citizens with guns. Private property should be able to post No Guns, but if a criminal shoots someone who could have had a gun and doesnt the property owner should get sued.

Theres no reason gun makers need special protection from lawsuits. The alcohol industry doesnt have those special protections. Maybe thats why they go out of their way to encourage the safe and legal consumption of their products.



Awesome. So gun manufacturers are immune from federal lawsuit, but if I dont want guns on my property its my fault if someone gets shot.

Thats fair

Yup it is. There is no reason to hold gun makers responsible for misuse of their products, just like we dont hold car manufacturers liable for drunk drivers.
You are free to post your property but you assume liability on behalf of those you've disarmed.
Makes perfect sense. Unless you're stupid.

No dumbshit. Im not forcing anyone to be on my property disarmed. If you insist on carrying a gun do not come to my house. I have a 3 year old and his chances of death go way up when there is a gun in the house, thats just statistical fact.


And I never said gun manufacturers shoild be held liable for misuse of their product. The federal shield law protects them from ALL lawsuits other than particular kinds that the law excepts. NO OTHER INDUSTRY enjoys the same blanket protections.

It's actually not a "fact."
No other industry is as targeted as gun makers.
So that's two failed points in one post. Congrats!