Thou Shalt Not Kill,,,,,,,,except when?????

[Avatar4321]

That's not really a fair comparison. I just need a Christian to explain to me how murder or killing or whatever we're calling it, is condoned under any circumstances according to Christian beliefs. It just doesn't make sense. Isn't Christianity about love and FORGIVENESS rather than justice?

Christians are focusing on the here and now, terrestrial things. I thought they believed that the real justice is served on judgment day.

Christianity is about love and forgiveness. But mercy cannot rob justice. justice still needs to be fulfilled. Thats the point of the Atonement. And the Atonement will extend mercy to everyone. Saddam may have died. But because the Atonement of Christ he will rise in the resurrection of the unjust, unless by some miracle he repented, in which he would rise in the resurrection of the just.

The atonement works for all of us that way. We will all rise from death. But that doesn't change that justice must be done.

But then, i dont think most people understand what true justice is. Heck I cant swear I know it perfectly. But you cant understand mercy until you know Justice. They are closely tied principles.

 

[liberalogic]

Christianity is about love and forgiveness. But mercy cannot rob justice. justice still needs to be fulfilled. Thats the point of the Atonement. And the Atonement will extend mercy to everyone. Saddam may have died. But because the Atonement of Christ he will rise in the resurrection of the unjust, unless by some miracle he repented, in which he would rise in the resurrection of the just.

The atonement works for all of us that way. We will all rise from death. But that doesn't change that justice must be done.

But then, i dont think most people understand what true justice is. Heck I cant swear I know it perfectly. But you cant understand mercy until you know Justice. They are closely tied principles.

But why must justice be served by us human beings? Again, that should be God's job on judgment day.

Personally, I believe in the death penalty (and I don't consider myself Christian), I just again, can't rationalize it in the context of Christianity when the true justice should be handled by God.

 

[kurtsprincess]

But why must justice be served by us human beings? Again, that should be God's job on judgment day.

Personally, I believe in the death penalty (and I don't consider myself Christian), I just again, can't rationalize it in the context of Christianity when the true justice should be handled by God.

Did you ever consider that God IS handling "true justice" through the actions of man? And that when one dies it IS judgement day?

 

[theHawk]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384738/from/RS.1/



Except when?

Psychoblues

What a surprise, Psycho is mourning the passing of Saddam.

I guess the whole point of this thread is for liberals to tell us if we were 'true Christians' we would never kill anyone for any reason, that 'good Christians' are supposed to sit back and let tyranny and oppression go unabated. Boy, with that kind of liberal logic it must of been 'un-Christian' of us to go to war against Nazi Germany or even the Japs that attacked us.

 

[mattskramer]

The correct translation is thou shalt not murder. Which is the killing of innocents in cold blood. You seem to have a basic misunderstanding between murder and killing.

Would the Bible allow you to murder an innocent person if, by doing so, you will prevent the early death or killing of many more innocent people?

 

[MissileMan]

Would the Bible allow you to murder an innocent person if, by doing so, you will prevent the early death or killing of many more innocent people?

I think it's safe to avoid that question until someone invents a time machine and/or a fully functional crystal ball.

 

[liberalogic]

Did you ever consider that God IS handling "true justice" through the actions of man? And that when one dies it IS judgement day?

Illogical conclusion. If God is handling justice through man, then the innocent person killed (the victim of the murderer who deserves the death penalty) is just as guilty as the murderer himself.

 

[Gunny]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384738/from/RS.1/



Except when?

Psychoblues

Funny how YOU always make me think of the exception to that rule.

 

[manu1959]

Thou Shalt Not Kill

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16384738/from/RS.1/

Except when?

Psychoblues

thou shalt not kill is not a muslim commandment

 

[manu1959]

..... Killing is killing, murder is murder but it is still killing......

Psychoblues

so is abortion murder and or killing?

how about assisted suicide?

killing an embryo for stem cell research?

 

[Avatar4321]

Would the Bible allow you to murder an innocent person if, by doing so, you will prevent the early death or killing of many more innocent people?

I dont think the Bible lets anyone do anything. The Lord God on the other hand is a totally different matter. If i remember correctly, been a while since i read the article, the Law of Moses had set up sactuaries for men who were inspired by the Lord to take the life of someone else. Im not sure how that was regulated exactly, and i doubt anyone killed would have been innocent.

Honestly, I doubt it really matters. The Lord paid the price for us to overcome death. Life and death are His perogatives. If he wants to command someone to kill someone else, its his right since He paid for it in His blood. With that said I dont think it happens very often if at all. We are bound by the laws of the land and they just don't allow that. So I dont think it would be commanded and if someone was, Id seriously have to question it. Cause i just dont think its that common or that people are intune with the Spirit enough to actually do that. Personally, Id need to see an angel command me before id seriously consider something like that. And even then id probably still doubt.

 

[liberalogic]

I'm still waiting for a Christian to rationally justify the death penalty.

 

[Gunny]

I'm still waiting for a Christian to rationally justify the death penalty.

Punishment befitting a crime.

 

[jillian]

Punishment befitting a crime.

Isn't an "eye for an eye" more of a Hebraic concept? I thought Jesus did the kinder gentler thing?

To be fair, my problem isn't with the death penalty, per se. It's in the fact that hundreds of people on death row have gotten their convictions reversed because of DNA technology, eyewitness testimony is notoriously flawed, and the death penalty is applied unequally based on the race and socioeconomic position of the Defendant.

If it's a heinous crime and identification isn't an issue, I'm pretty much ok with it,.

 

[Gunny]

Isn't an "eye for an eye" more of a Hebraic concept? I thought Jesus did the kinder gentler thing?

To be fair, my problem isn't with the death penalty, per se. It's in the fact that hundreds of people on death row have gotten their convictions reversed because of DNA technology, eyewitness testimony is notoriously flawed, and the death penalty is applied unequally based on the race and socioeconomic position of the Defendant.

If it's a heinous crime and identification isn't an issue, I'm pretty much ok with it,.

There are no hundreds. A handful at best, over how many years? I have no problem with the death penalty. I don't agree with how it is applied, but not for the liberal fantasy that it is applied unequally based on race and socioeconomic position.

What you leave out is a higher percentage of criminals are ethnic minorities, and ALL are poor or they wouldn't need to be criminials, now would they?

I don't agree with sentencing someone to death based on circumstantial evidence only, or the word of one eyewitness. IMO, there should be no shadow of doubt as to guilt. Otherwise, they should get life.

 

[jillian]

There are no hundreds. A handful at best, over how many years? I have no problem with the death penalty. I don't agree with how it is applied, but not for the liberal fantasy that it is applied unequally based on race and socioeconomic position.

What you leave out is a higher percentage of criminals are ethnic minorities, and ALL are poor or they wouldn't need to be criminials, now would they?

I don't agree with sentencing someone to death based on circumstantial evidence only, or the word of one eyewitness. IMO, there should be no shadow of doubt as to guilt. Otherwise, they should get life.

Actually, it's 189, as of today. And that's just out of the Innocence Project. There are similar groups around the country who have also gotten innocent people off of death row.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

I'm not talking about percentages of the population. I'm talking about percentages from each group, independently. There have been many studies documenting the unequal use of the death penalty on minorities as opposed to whites when the nature of the crimes committed are comparable.

As for there not being a shadow of doubt as to guilt before using the death penalty, I agree with you.

 

[Annie]

Isn't an "eye for an eye" more of a Hebraic concept? I thought Jesus did the kinder gentler thing?

To be fair, my problem isn't with the death penalty, per se. It's in the fact that hundreds of people on death row have gotten their convictions reversed because of DNA technology, eyewitness testimony is notoriously flawed, and the death penalty is applied unequally based on the race and socioeconomic position of the Defendant.

If it's a heinous crime and identification isn't an issue, I'm pretty much ok with it,.

You have links? I know of some that have been overturned, but what you are insinuating is to the best of my knowledge, overblown by a longshot.

 

[jillian]

You have links? I know of some that have been overturned, but what you are insinuating is to the best of my knowledge, overblown by a longshot.

Look at the post above yours. And it isn't overblown, obviously.

 

[Annie]

Look at the post above yours. And it isn't overblown, obviously.

Funny thing, I don't feel compelled to respond to you. Yes, it is overblown.

 

[Gunny]

Actually, it's 189, as of today. And that's just out of the Innocence Project. There are similar groups around the country who have also gotten innocent people off of death row.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

I'm not talking about percentages of the population. I'm talking about percentages from each group, independently. There have been many studies documenting the unequal use of the death penalty on minorities as opposed to whites when the nature of the crimes committed are comparable.

As for there not being a shadow of doubt as to guilt before using the death penalty, I agree with you.

Okay. 189. Still not "hundredS."

Punishment should be equal, and commensurate with the crime. It has never been so, and likely not going to be so in the future becuase it involves people, and people think with their biases.