They just don't get it!

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The act and establishment of sovereignty does not require your recognition, Arab-Palestinian approval or recognition --- or the documentation by treaty.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

(REFERENCE)

ARTICLE 3 --- Montevideo Convention of Rights and Duties of States

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.
​

(COMMENT)

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.

The Paulet-Newcombe Line, more properly known as the Franco-British Boundary Agreements (French Lieutenant Colonel N. Paulet and British Lieutenant Colonel S. F. Newcombe, who were appointed to lead the Boundary Commission) was approved by the French and British governments 7 March 1923. This is the 1923 Delimitation noted by the Lebanese President that I mentioned in Posting #59, supra. This was in relationship to the formalized separation between the French and British territories under Mandate. NOT the separation between Lebanon and Palestine; as it is often mistaken for --- but correctly identified by the Lebanese President. The Paulet-Newcombe Survey Line has been used several times as the southern border Lebanon (founded) 26 November 1941 and released from League of Nations Mandate under French administration and declared Independent 22 November 1943. It became the border line between Lebanon and Israel on the Independence 15 May 1948; and the Armistice Line under the Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949. As noted by the Lebanese President in 2000, "(w)here there are “internationally recognized boundaries” there can be no “de facto line.” The communication is unambiguous. It is the Lebanese Argument that there is an “internationally recognized boundaries” for which Israel has violated. And that Israel or the UN cannot use the argument that it is not a boundary between Lebanon and Israel.

The mistake often made (that you have made) is suggesting that the border segments around the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, with the short-title of "Palestine" authorized by the Palestine Order in Council, somehow confer some special meaning on sovereignty in the relative relation to the Arabs.

Finally, the idea that the establishment of a border, relative to the exercise of self-determination, (what you call "say-so" and the implication you make), is somehow invalid --- is completely incorrect. International law outlines two theories of state recognition, (∆ Key Link):

• The “declaratory” view (much more prominent)
• The “constitutive” view (gaining greater acceptance)
​

The "declaratory theory" considers the state’s declaration of independence (say so) sovereignty within the territory it exclusively controls. It does consider recognition as almost irrelevant.

The "constitutive theory" considers recognition of a state as paramount; and NOT automatic on declaration. A state is only a state when it is recognized as a state. The recognition of a state is at the discretion of other individual states.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

You mean like the arab muslims never owned or held sovereignty over the land since 1099, and were recent arrivals on the promise of work and land. The LoN who did own the land granted 22% of Palestine to the Jews as their NATIONal home and that became INTERNATIONAL LAW. So defeating all your false arguments and islamonazi propaganda.

THE LAND IS JEWISH AND EVEN THE UN HAS ADMITTED THAT

 

[Phoenall]

WRONG AGAIN as it was the LoN mandate of Palestine that offered the Jews the land for their NATIONal home. The arab muslims were offered trans Jordan at the same time and turned it down. This led to the 1947 war with the Jews because the arab muslims wanted it all. and wont rest until they own the world.

WRONG AGAIN as it was the LoN mandate of Palestine that offered the Jews the land for their NATIONal home.​

WRONG AGAIN the mandate said that the Jews could live in Palestine as Palestinian citizens.

NO it gave them Palestinian citizenship to make it easier for them to declare free determination on the land given as the Jewish NATIONal home




The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate



The Council of the League of Nations:
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and

Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;

confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:



ART. 4.
An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.


So you see you don't know what the mandate actually says, just what you think it says.

NO it gave them Palestinian citizenship to make it easier for them to declare free determination on the land given as the Jewish NATIONal home​

Could you quote the passage about giving land?

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.


Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, those are Palestine's international borders.

Example:

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​

Why wasn't it called the international boundary between Lebanon and Israel?

If you need to ask then you are not clued up on historical events. The border was drawn up before there was any nations of Israel and Palestine and refers to the mandate of Palestine borders. So to stop any confusion that is what was used, but ir seems that it created more confusion amongst islamonazi propagandists that believed it was a nation of Palestine that was created in 1923.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

All of it.

Right up until the Jews wanted to be allowed to live free and with the same rights as arab muslims, then the mass murders and massacres would have taken place. They never were going to share anything, all the arab muslims want is to own everything and to kill those that oppose them. This is shown by the recent video's of "refugees" in Europe using the same tactics as Palestinians when faced with defenders. STONE THROWING and RIOTING.

 

[Phoenall]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines that the UN USA and the international community recognizes.

Its really that simple...

WRONG they have offered a suicide pact that removes Israel and the Jews from the face of the Earth. It is based on ILLEGAL premise and unworkable solutions that are all one sided.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

NO it gave them Palestinian citizenship to make it easier for them to declare free determination on the land given as the Jewish NATIONal home

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

The Council of the League of Nations:
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and

Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;

confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:



ART. 4.
An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognised as a public body for the purpose of advising and co-operating with the Administration of Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of the Administration to assist and take part in the development of the country.

The Zionist organization, so long as its organization and constitution are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate, shall be recognised as such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic Majesty's Government to secure the co-operation of all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.


So you see you don't know what the mandate actually says, just what you think it says.

NO it gave them Palestinian citizenship to make it easier for them to declare free determination on the land given as the Jewish NATIONal home​

Could you quote the passage about giving land?

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.


Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, those are Palestine's international borders.

Example:

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​

Why wasn't it called the international boundary between Lebanon and Israel?

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

NO it gave them Palestinian citizenship to make it easier for them to declare free determination on the land given as the Jewish NATIONal home​

Could you quote the passage about giving land?

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.


Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, those are Palestine's international borders.

Example:

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​

Why wasn't it called the international boundary between Lebanon and Israel?

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

Delineating the final geographical area of Palestine designated for the Jewish National Home on September 16, 1922, as described by the Mandatory


PALESTINE


INTRODUCTORY.


POSITION, ETC.


Palestine lies on the western edge of the continent of Asia between Latitude 30º N. and 33º N., Longitude 34º 30’ E. and 35º 30’ E.

On the North it is bounded by the French Mandated Territories of Syria and Lebanon, on the East by Syria and Trans-Jordan, on the South-west by the Egyptian province of Sinai, on the South-east by the Gulf of Aqaba and on the West by the Mediterranean. The frontier with Syria was laid down by the Anglo-French Convention of the 23rd December, 1920, and its delimitation was ratified in 1923. Briefly stated, the boundaries are as follows: -

North. – From Ras en Naqura on the Mediterranean eastwards to a point west of Qadas, thence in a northerly direction to Metulla, thence east to a point west of Banias.

East. – From Banias in a southerly direction east of Lake Hula to Jisr Banat Ya’pub, thence along a line east of the Jordan and the Lake of Tiberias and on to El Hamme station on the Samakh-Deraa railway line, thence along the centre of the river Yarmuq to its confluence with the Jordan, thence along the centres of the Jordan, the Dead Sea and the Wadi Araba to a point on the Gulf of Aqaba two miles west of the town of Aqaba, thence along the shore of the Gulf of Aqaba to Ras Jaba.

South. – From Ras Jaba in a generally north-westerly direction to the junction of the Neki-Aqaba and Gaza-Aqaba Roads, thence to a point west-north-west of Ain Maghara and thence to a point on the Mediterranean coast north-west of Rafa.

West. – The Mediterranean Sea.

Indeed, those are Palestine's international borders.

Example:

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​

Why wasn't it called the international boundary between Lebanon and Israel?

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

Mandate of Palestine of course, why don't you read it

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

Indeed, those are Palestine's international borders.

Example:

Article V

1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

The Avalon Project : Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement, March 23, 1949​

Why wasn't it called the international boundary between Lebanon and Israel?

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

Mandate of Palestine of course, why don't you read it

Do you mean the document that calls Palestine a country ten times?

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

Mandate of Palestine of course, why don't you read it

Do you mean the document that calls Palestine a country ten times?

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

Care to show these then, and they must say either the country of Palestine or the nation of Palestine to comply with your claim ?

I can find only one instance of the word country in the whole document

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, don't attach a "meaning" to another's work --- that was not intended originally.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Back in 1949, there were all kinds of political games being played relative to Arab League nations recognizing the State of Israel. A small book could be written on that subject alone.

(COMMENT)

How about we skip forward to the 21st Century and look at the implications of the Lebanese Point of View.

• Reference: A/54/914 S/2000/564 12 June 2000 Letter dated 9 June 2000 from the President of Lebanon addressed to the Secretary-General

• Acknowledgement: Section II. Report of the Secretary-General of 22 May 2000 (S/2000/460) "Paragraph 13 of the report states that “the international boundary between Israel and Lebanon was established pursuant to the 1923 Agreement between France and Great Britain ...”, that “this line was reaffirmed in the Israeli-Lebanese General Armistice Agreement signed on 23 March 1949” and that “subsequently there were several modifications mutually agreed by Israel and Lebanon”."
​

You will notice that the President of Lebanon makes reference to:

The resolution and the report, as well as the historical records and the various documents and maps, including those in the possession of the United Nations, confirm unequivocally that there are between Lebanon and Israel “internationally recognized boundaries” that have never been in dispute between the two countries. Indeed, the descriptive delimitation of these boundaries completed in 1923 was meticulously retraced in 1949, under the supervision of the United Nations and its observers, from boundary pillar 1 to boundary pillar 38 by way of all those in between.

Lebanon was further surprised to be told that it was not the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel. It responded by stating clearly that it was not, of course, the task of the United Nations to delimit the boundaries between Lebanon and Israel just as, at the same time, it was not the task of the United Nations team to ignore existing, recognized boundaries and to replace them with an imaginary “withdrawal line” to be used as a basis for confirming Israel’s withdrawal in breach of the letter and spirit of the resolution and the report. Besides, Israel had itself recognized, in article 1 of the Lebanon-Israel agreement of 17 May [1983] (subsequently denounced) that the two parties agreed to respect each other’s sovereignty, political independence and territorial integrity and that they regarded the existing international boundaries between Lebanon and Israel as inviolable. (The text of the agreement was shown to Mr. Roed-Larsen at the time.)
​

One of the common themes that has almost been a constant since the adoption of A/RES/181(II) of November 1947 is the political attempt to forestall the legitimization of the establishment of Israel through the denial of recognition. In cases where it benefits the Arab-Palestinian, the policy is to accept the concept that recognition is not a prerequisite for independence and sovereign integrity; the existence of the state (Israel) is independent of recognition by the other states (Palestine // Arab League). But when it is not to the benefit of the Arab-Palestinian manipulate the concept by demanding recognition and documented border arrangements before the right to defend its sovereign integrity and independence is considered legitimate. This practice is an attempt to defying and circumvent Resolution 181(II) in a deliberate effort to alter by political subterfuge the legitimacy given Israel; and to legitimize the use of force to settle the international disputes by an alternative to peaceful means ("There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.").

You can choose to make more or the political shenanigans and slight of hand if you want. But it is politically recognized for what it is. It is understood by everyone, including the Lebanese, what the border markings between Lebanon and Israel represent. Trying to attach some 1923 meaning to them --- carried forward to the present, is ridiculous.

Most Respectfully,
R

And the "blue line" was established because there is no border between Israel and Lebanon.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

AND REMEBER THAT IT IS THE MANDATE OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER AND NOT THE NATION OF PALESTINE/LEBANON BORDER

Mandate of Palestine of course, why don't you read it

Do you mean the document that calls Palestine a country ten times?

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

(COMMENT)

Usually, of little importance, is the fact that the Palestine Order in Council comes BEFORE the Mandate for Palestine.

All the term "country" means in the case of the Mandate (written essentially by the same group that wrote the Order in Council) is the entire tract of land under the same government. In this case, the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine; and under "The High Commissioner" --- the "person for the time being administering the Government of Palestine." In the 1922 Palestine Order in Council, "His Majesty may, by a Commission under His Sign Manual and Signet, appoint a fit person to administer the Government of Palestine under the designation of High Commissioner and Commander-in-Chief or such other designation as His Majesty thinks fit, and the person so appointed is hereinafter referred to as the High Commissioner."
​

Your implication is that the use of the term "country" confers some special meaning of independence, sovereignty, or attachment of the indigenous people of the land --- to the land. That would be incorrect.

The use of the term "country" is just a reference back to the "Government of Palestine" defined by the Order in council.

Don't read something into the wording that really is not there and is not intended.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines that the UN USA and the international community recognizes.

Its really that simple...

WRONG they have offered a suicide pact that removes Israel and the Jews from the face of the Earth. It is based on ILLEGAL premise and unworkable solutions that are all one sided.

Honestly whatever Israel is paying you , I hope they give you a big raise...You lie so much that you're undressing the fallacy that Israel want's peace...Recently Ann Coulter from CNN railed against Congress' pandering to Jewish influence for their blind support Israeli interests...

Peace is anathema to Israel, that's why she builds settlements not bridges to peace the world demands.

The world is onto you and Israel Phoney, the internet has made hiding influence almost impossible and its about to change!

 

[pbel]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

You mean like the arab muslims never owned or held sovereignty over the land since 1099, and were recent arrivals on the promise of work and land. The LoN who did own the land granted 22% of Palestine to the Jews as their NATIONal home and that became INTERNATIONAL LAW. So defeating all your false arguments and islamonazi propaganda.

THE LAND IS JEWISH AND EVEN THE UN HAS ADMITTED THAT

Show me the Land Deeds thief?

 

[Phoenall]

Oh I 'get it'. Jews want a land where they can be left alone to live...Palestinians want to perpetrate the genocide of the Jewish people...and their are people like you willing to argue that the Palestinians are justified in want to and in carrying it out.

The Palestinians don't want a home...their own charter states their desire - the complete and utter destruction of Israel and genocide of the Jews. A few years ago the U.N. offered the Palestinians the opportunity to be fully recognized among the world's nations AS a nation, a CIVILIZED, RESPONSIBLE nation, IF it agree to remove from its charter the call for the destruction and genocide of the Jews - IT REFUSED....PROVING that its hatred for and desire to perpetrate the genocide of Israel is far greater than a desire to have any homeland in which they may live peacefully!

The WORLD pressured Israel to give the Gaza Stip back to the Palestinians. Israel warned if they did so the Palestinians would use the Gaza Strip as a launching pont from which to attack Israel. The 'world' said 'no they wont' and continued to pressure Israel to give back the Gaza Strip. Israel complied...

So what did the Palestinians do with this new homeland? They spent MILLIONS of dollars to build incredibly complex tunnels into Israel to use to launch attacks and perpetrate suicide bombings to kill Israelis. They brought in rocket launchers, continuously firing as many as, at one point, 100 rockets into Israel IN ONE MONTH! (Tell me how long the US would put up with that Shi'ite in Mexico started doing that!) The Palestinians just want peace and a good life for their people? NOT! They saw their own citizens as 'Propaganda Pieces' , Human Shields, to use against Israel. They places rocket launchers in hospitals, in their children's schools, and in their housing complexes! When citizens tried to flee these areas to avoid dying as Human Shields the Palestinians gunned down their own people and tried to report them as having been killed by Israel.

Palestinians don't want true peace. Their idea of 'peace' is when a world free of Jews is achieved....says so in their own charter, which they refuse to change. If you think changing THEIR minds is likely / possible, prove it can be done...go to Iraq or Syria and convince ISIS that you (if you are a Christian) and they can survive in a world together. I will look for your beheading on-line or in the news....

Hail, Obama just agreed with Iran that Israel, our ally, has no right to exist, removing that from the treaty he agreed to because Iran will not accept any deal if it means they have to acknowledge the Jews' right to live.
-- There was 1 other nation, 1 other set of 'monsters', that once had that goal, and the WORLD stood against them. Now, in my lifetime - which I never thought I would see - after people who lived through, saw, and fought against the Holocaust declared 'Never Again', AMERICANS / the 'world' are / is actually arguing in favor of today's monsters, who seek to finish what the Nazis started.

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines that the UN USA and the international community recognizes.

Its really that simple...

WRONG they have offered a suicide pact that removes Israel and the Jews from the face of the Earth. It is based on ILLEGAL premise and unworkable solutions that are all one sided.

Honestly whatever Israel is paying you , I hope they give you a big raise...You lie so much that you're undressing the fallacy that Israel want's peace...Recently Ann Coulter from CNN railed against Congress' pandering to Jewish influence for their blind support Israeli interests...

Peace is anathema to Israel, that's why she builds settlements not bridges to peace the world demands.

The world is onto you and Israel Phoney, the internet has made hiding influence almost impossible and its about to change!

They pay me nothing and I enjoy showing you up for the islamonazi POS that you are. Israel builds on Jewish land that they hold title to, and that is what gets you. The fact that your fellow islamonazi scum did not register their land ownership when they had the chance to, and now have lost out.
Now show were the arab league proposals would not result in the mass murder of Jews and the destruction of Israel, that is if you can find an unbiased source for the details.

 

[pbel]

Sorry, I could not read beyond 2-3 sentences to see you were piling on the bullshit Israeli Manifesto...Your Israel is squatting on peoples homes installed by Zionist controlled Colonial lackeys by Colonial fiat...No-one is going to buy your argument...And like the Israeli Stooge, you don't mention the Peace of the last two years where the Palestinians are willing to share their Palestine for peace...

Israel's answer, built Settlements...Israel will be destroyed not by her enemies, but by her GREED!

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines that the UN USA and the international community recognizes.

Its really that simple...

WRONG they have offered a suicide pact that removes Israel and the Jews from the face of the Earth. It is based on ILLEGAL premise and unworkable solutions that are all one sided.

Honestly whatever Israel is paying you , I hope they give you a big raise...You lie so much that you're undressing the fallacy that Israel want's peace...Recently Ann Coulter from CNN railed against Congress' pandering to Jewish influence for their blind support Israeli interests...

Peace is anathema to Israel, that's why she builds settlements not bridges to peace the world demands.

The world is onto you and Israel Phoney, the internet has made hiding influence almost impossible and its about to change!

They pay me nothing and I enjoy showing you up for the islamonazi POS that you are. Israel builds on Jewish land that they hold title to, and that is what gets you. The fact that your fellow islamonazi scum did not register their land ownership when they had the chance to, and now have lost out.
Now show were the arab league proposals would not result in the mass murder of Jews and the destruction of Israel, that is if you can find an unbiased source for the details.

Keep posting your land thieving theory, the world doesn't buy it, and Israel's greed will be its undoing.

 

[Phoenall]

which part of 'their palestine' they were willing to share?

The Arab League has offered a comprehensive peace to the 67 Armistice lines that the UN USA and the international community recognizes.

Its really that simple...

WRONG they have offered a suicide pact that removes Israel and the Jews from the face of the Earth. It is based on ILLEGAL premise and unworkable solutions that are all one sided.

Honestly whatever Israel is paying you , I hope they give you a big raise...You lie so much that you're undressing the fallacy that Israel want's peace...Recently Ann Coulter from CNN railed against Congress' pandering to Jewish influence for their blind support Israeli interests...

Peace is anathema to Israel, that's why she builds settlements not bridges to peace the world demands.

The world is onto you and Israel Phoney, the internet has made hiding influence almost impossible and its about to change!

They pay me nothing and I enjoy showing you up for the islamonazi POS that you are. Israel builds on Jewish land that they hold title to, and that is what gets you. The fact that your fellow islamonazi scum did not register their land ownership when they had the chance to, and now have lost out.
Now show were the arab league proposals would not result in the mass murder of Jews and the destruction of Israel, that is if you can find an unbiased source for the details.

Keep posting your land thieving theory, the world doesn't buy it, and Israel's greed will be its undoing.

What land thieving theory would these be then, how about a clue to them. Don't forget that the international laws you peddle did not come into being until after 1967

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The act and establishment of sovereignty does not require your recognition, Arab-Palestinian approval or recognition --- or the documentation by treaty.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

(REFERENCE)

ARTICLE 3 --- Montevideo Convention of Rights and Duties of States

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.
​

(COMMENT)

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.

The Paulet-Newcombe Line, more properly known as the Franco-British Boundary Agreements (French Lieutenant Colonel N. Paulet and British Lieutenant Colonel S. F. Newcombe, who were appointed to lead the Boundary Commission) was approved by the French and British governments 7 March 1923. This is the 1923 Delimitation noted by the Lebanese President that I mentioned in Posting #59, supra. This was in relationship to the formalized separation between the French and British territories under Mandate. NOT the separation between Lebanon and Palestine; as it is often mistaken for --- but correctly identified by the Lebanese President. The Paulet-Newcombe Survey Line has been used several times as the southern border Lebanon (founded) 26 November 1941 and released from League of Nations Mandate under French administration and declared Independent 22 November 1943. It became the border line between Lebanon and Israel on the Independence 15 May 1948; and the Armistice Line under the Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949. As noted by the Lebanese President in 2000, "(w)here there are “internationally recognized boundaries” there can be no “de facto line.” The communication is unambiguous. It is the Lebanese Argument that there is an “internationally recognized boundaries” for which Israel has violated. And that Israel or the UN cannot use the argument that it is not a boundary between Lebanon and Israel.

The mistake often made (that you have made) is suggesting that the border segments around the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, with the short-title of "Palestine" authorized by the Palestine Order in Council, somehow confer some special meaning on sovereignty in the relative relation to the Arabs.

Finally, the idea that the establishment of a border, relative to the exercise of self-determination, (what you call "say-so" and the implication you make), is somehow invalid --- is completely incorrect. International law outlines two theories of state recognition, (∆ Key Link):

• The “declaratory” view (much more prominent)
• The “constitutive” view (gaining greater acceptance)
​

The "declaratory theory" considers the state’s declaration of independence (say so) sovereignty within the territory it exclusively controls. It does consider recognition as almost irrelevant.

The "constitutive theory" considers recognition of a state as paramount; and NOT automatic on declaration. A state is only a state when it is recognized as a state. The recognition of a state is at the discretion of other individual states.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.​

I don't see the dispute. If there is a dispute with the Lebanon Palestine border why hasn't Palestine been contacted to negotiate the problem?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

In this response, you got it wrong "twice." And you only wrote two sentences.

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.

I don't see the dispute. If there is a dispute with the Lebanon Palestine border why hasn't Palestine been contacted to negotiate the problem?

(COMMENT)

The border dispute (in 2000) was between Lebanon and Israel. The Lebanese Republic has no common border with the State of Palestine; Israel --- yes. Palestine no! This you can plainly deduce from the letter written by General Émile Lahoud, formerly the President of the Republic.

The State of Palestine has no negotiating power or influence, at all, relative to the Paulet-Newcombe Line (established between the British and French Governments) (AKA: Blue Line, AKA: Lebanese-Israeli Border). And it has no negotiating power, influence or connection to, the Shab’a farmlands, Lebanese highlands on Mount Hermon, or the al-Bekaa Valley (AKA: Hezbollah controlled territory).

In technical terms, the State of Palestine has neither "standing" or "competence" in the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The act and establishment of sovereignty does not require your recognition, Arab-Palestinian approval or recognition --- or the documentation by treaty.

Here again you are working on say so. The Palestine Lebanon international border is undisputed. There has never been any talks or treaties between them to change that status.

(REFERENCE)

ARTICLE 3 --- Montevideo Convention of Rights and Duties of States

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law.
​

(COMMENT)

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.

The Paulet-Newcombe Line, more properly known as the Franco-British Boundary Agreements (French Lieutenant Colonel N. Paulet and British Lieutenant Colonel S. F. Newcombe, who were appointed to lead the Boundary Commission) was approved by the French and British governments 7 March 1923. This is the 1923 Delimitation noted by the Lebanese President that I mentioned in Posting #59, supra. This was in relationship to the formalized separation between the French and British territories under Mandate. NOT the separation between Lebanon and Palestine; as it is often mistaken for --- but correctly identified by the Lebanese President. The Paulet-Newcombe Survey Line has been used several times as the southern border Lebanon (founded) 26 November 1941 and released from League of Nations Mandate under French administration and declared Independent 22 November 1943. It became the border line between Lebanon and Israel on the Independence 15 May 1948; and the Armistice Line under the Lebanese-Israeli General Armistice Agreement of 23 March 1949. As noted by the Lebanese President in 2000, "(w)here there are “internationally recognized boundaries” there can be no “de facto line.” The communication is unambiguous. It is the Lebanese Argument that there is an “internationally recognized boundaries” for which Israel has violated. And that Israel or the UN cannot use the argument that it is not a boundary between Lebanon and Israel.

The mistake often made (that you have made) is suggesting that the border segments around the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, with the short-title of "Palestine" authorized by the Palestine Order in Council, somehow confer some special meaning on sovereignty in the relative relation to the Arabs.

Finally, the idea that the establishment of a border, relative to the exercise of self-determination, (what you call "say-so" and the implication you make), is somehow invalid --- is completely incorrect. International law outlines two theories of state recognition, (∆ Key Link):

• The “declaratory” view (much more prominent)
• The “constitutive” view (gaining greater acceptance)
​

The "declaratory theory" considers the state’s declaration of independence (say so) sovereignty within the territory it exclusively controls. It does consider recognition as almost irrelevant.

The "constitutive theory" considers recognition of a state as paramount; and NOT automatic on declaration. A state is only a state when it is recognized as a state. The recognition of a state is at the discretion of other individual states.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.​

I don't see the dispute. If there is a dispute with the Lebanon Palestine border why hasn't Palestine been contacted to negotiate the problem?

Because it did not exist when the treaty was made is why, or did they sign at the bottom using invisible ink and invisible delegates

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

In this response, you got it wrong "twice." And you only wrote two sentences.

You are incorrect. Your understanding of the meaning "Palestine Lebanon international border" is most assuredly in dispute. As pointed out by the President of Lebanon.

I don't see the dispute. If there is a dispute with the Lebanon Palestine border why hasn't Palestine been contacted to negotiate the problem?

(COMMENT)

The border dispute (in 2000) was between Lebanon and Israel. The Lebanese Republic has no common border with the State of Palestine; Israel --- yes. Palestine no! This you can plainly deduce from the letter written by General Émile Lahoud, formerly the President of the Republic.

The State of Palestine has no negotiating power or influence, at all, relative to the Paulet-Newcombe Line (established between the British and French Governments) (AKA: Blue Line, AKA: Lebanese-Israeli Border). And it has no negotiating power, influence or connection to, the Shab’a farmlands, Lebanese highlands on Mount Hermon, or the al-Bekaa Valley (AKA: Hezbollah controlled territory).

In technical terms, the State of Palestine has neither "standing" or "competence" in the matter.

Most Respectfully,
R

They created the blue line because Israel has no border there.

It was Palestine's border in 1949. What has changed since 1949?

The UN states that the Palestinians have the right to territorial integrity. Does that not mean that they have the right to control their borders. (Even though they cannot physically because they are occupied.)