They Don't Care Who Has A Gun

[The Rabbi]

He is a lot brighter than you are.

Very few guns in the US are "registered". Only in a few of the commie states is what you would call registration. Since Florida is a free state none of my 50 are and I can sell them to whoever I want to as private sales as long as I am not doing it as a business. That is called freedom.

If I bought one of my firearms from a LLC dealer then there is a record of who the dealer sold it to but it stops there. I can sell my firearm and there is no requirement to keep any record or provide any information about the sale to the authorities.

If you are going to make comments on this you really need to know what you are talking about. That way you won't look so dumb.

Bullshit. All guns purchased by a licensed dealer is in effect registered per Federal Law. Yes you can sell a firearm to whoever you want but there is a paper trail that leads to YOU and when is investigated by law enforcement is will come back to you. You moron. And no one ever said such a private sale had to be reported to the authorities. But it is illegal even in Florida to sell to a minor, a felon or a non-resident. So if you are stupid enough to sell to a anyone prohibited from legally owning a firearm, you are part of the problem.

I've co-owned a gun store for over twenty years and I currently have my FFL.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

The paper trail stops at you. There is absolutely no requirement for you to do any background check on anybody you sell a firearm to (at least in Florida and other free states I lived in). There is no procedure or documentation required to assure that the person you sell the firearm to is not a felon or non resident. Of course if you sold to a 10 year kid it would be hard to prove that you didn't know it was a minor but otherwise you are home free.

Your assertion that you will be prosecuted if you ever sell to a felon is simply not true. The prosecution would have to prove that you knowingly knew the buyer was a felon. The defense "he told me he wasn't" for the typical gunshow or private transfer type sales has been held up in the courts as being adequate.

Back about 20 years ago I bought a S&W from a dealer. A couple of years later I sold it to Mr. "I have no idea who" at the Tampa gunshow. About five years later I was contacted by the police because the firearm had been used in a crime. After telling the police how I sold it they were satisfied.

No one said you had to do a background check for private sales.

If a weapon you sold is found at a crime scene or in the hands of a person prohibited from owning one and it is traced back to you, you will suffer the consequence, especially if you have no bill of sale indicating when and to whom the weapon was sold. If the bill of sale shows you did in fact sell to a person that is prohibited from owning a firearm you again risk prosecution.

Yea the "I didn't know" defense works real well.

I think you're story is a fabrication.

You can think whatever you want to think.

You are confusing the the fact that most states says you can't sell to a felon to the reality that most states do not require any kind of proof on your part as a private citizen that the person you sell it to is not a felon. That is why the shithead Libtards wants universal background checks. In Florida or most other free states there is no requirement to do a background check on the person you are selling it to.

When I occasionally sell a firearm as a private sale I usually ask if they are prohibiting from own a firearm and if they are a resident of Florida. That is more than I am required to do under the law.

The "I didn't know" defense has been upheld in court for typical private transfers. If you are involved in illegal sales of firearms then that is a different ballgame.

Get caught selling to a felon and see what happens.

Nothing. Why do you think something would happen?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Bullshit. All guns purchased by a licensed dealer is in effect registered per Federal Law. Yes you can sell a firearm to whoever you want but there is a paper trail that leads to YOU and when is investigated by law enforcement is will come back to you. You moron. And no one ever said such a private sale had to be reported to the authorities. But it is illegal even in Florida to sell to a minor, a felon or a non-resident. So if you are stupid enough to sell to a anyone prohibited from legally owning a firearm, you are part of the problem.

I've co-owned a gun store for over twenty years and I currently have my FFL.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Are you not concerned about the federal government which is PROHIBITED BY LAW- THE 2A - from preventing Americans from owning firearms??!?!?!?!?

The solution is homemade "ghost" guns.


.

I think some people should not be allowed to own firearms.

And some people believe that should not be allowed to own firearms

But no individual or entity should determine whether "A" should be allowed to own firearms.


There in no way of determining whether someone is going to misuse their firearm.

Someone who was convicted of smoking a joint should not be prevented from defending himself because he is a "felon"


.

Thanks for showing how utterly stupid you are.

There are ways of determining whether someone should possess a firearm. People that are shown to be violent criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, sex offenders etc....

What is "dangerously mentally ill"? Talking to yourself? Paranoid delusions? Depression? Because most of the notorious shooters didnt show any of these.

Individuals who have been committed to mental institutions or adjudicated as a mental defective.

2. Persons with Mental Illness: Thirty-three states and the District of Columbia have laws that restrict access to firearms by persons who are mentally ill. While most states use definitions of mental illness similar to the federal Brady Act81 and its implementing regulations, several states have broadened the category of mentally ill persons who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms.82
For example, under federal law, persons who are voluntarily committed to a mental hospital are not prohibited from possessing firearms.83 The following states have closed this gap by prohibiting firearm purchase or possession by persons who have been voluntarily admitted to a mental hospital within specified time periods: Connecticut (within the preceding six months), Illinois (until receiving a certification that he or she is not a danger), Maryland (until receiving “relief” from the firearm disqualification) and the District of Columbia (within the preceding five years).84

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

 

[Contumacious]

Lots of honest people sell to strangers. How are they risking prison just by selling a gun to someone who you have no way of knowing shouldn't be able to buy one?

Lots of people do? Then it should be easy for you to provide evidence of that.

I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

I still do not understand why , if your business is selling guns, you consent to filling out ATF 4473 - a criminal act since the federal government has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to demand that you fill out the forms.


I also do not understand how you can claim that there are individuals who are"prohibited from owning firearms"

. You are not who you claim you are.

.

 

[The Rabbi]

Are you not concerned about the federal government which is PROHIBITED BY LAW- THE 2A - from preventing Americans from owning firearms??!?!?!?!?

The solution is homemade "ghost" guns.


.

I think some people should not be allowed to own firearms.

And some people believe that should not be allowed to own firearms

But no individual or entity should determine whether "A" should be allowed to own firearms.


There in no way of determining whether someone is going to misuse their firearm.

Someone who was convicted of smoking a joint should not be prevented from defending himself because he is a "felon"


.

Thanks for showing how utterly stupid you are.

There are ways of determining whether someone should possess a firearm. People that are shown to be violent criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, sex offenders etc....

What is "dangerously mentally ill"? Talking to yourself? Paranoid delusions? Depression? Because most of the notorious shooters didnt show any of these.

Individuals who have been committed to mental institutions or adjudicated as a mental defective.

2. Persons with Mental Illness: Thirty-three states and the District of Columbia have laws that restrict access to firearms by persons who are mentally ill. While most states use definitions of mental illness similar to the federal Brady Act81 and its implementing regulations, several states have broadened the category of mentally ill persons who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms.82
For example, under federal law, persons who are voluntarily committed to a mental hospital are not prohibited from possessing firearms.83 The following states have closed this gap by prohibiting firearm purchase or possession by persons who have been voluntarily admitted to a mental hospital within specified time periods: Connecticut (within the preceding six months), Illinois (until receiving a certification that he or she is not a danger), Maryland (until receiving “relief” from the firearm disqualification) and the District of Columbia (within the preceding five years).84

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

You may want to referenc the OP, where the Appeals Court just struck down a major part of that.

 

[Dan Daly]

This is the NRA mentality. They don't care who has guns.

US appeals court deems gun law unconstitutional Fox News US appeals court deems gun law unconstitutional

A federal appeals court in Cincinnati deemed a law unconstitutional that kept a Michigan man who was committed to a mental institution from owning a gun.

The three-judge panel of the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously ruled that a federal ban on gun ownership for those who have been committed to a mental institution violated the Second Amendment rights of 73-year-old Clifford Charles Tyler.

Tyler attempted to buy a gun and was denied on the grounds that he had been committed to a mental institution in 1986 after suffering emotional problems stemming from a divorce. He was only in there for a month.

Tyler’s lawyer, Lucas McCarthy, hopes that the ruling would have a “significant impact on the jurisprudence in the area of gun rights.”

Get back to me in 20 years when someone uses this post to deny you something, even though you have hopefully overcome the infirmity that obviously afflicts you at the moment.

 

[The Rabbi]

Lots of people do? Then it should be easy for you to provide evidence of that.

I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

I still do not understand why , if your business is selling guns, you consent to filling out ATF 4473 - a criminal act since the federal government has NO AUTHORITY WHATSOEVER to demand that you fill out the forms.


I also do not understand how you can claim that there are individuals who are"prohibited from owning firearms"

. You are not who you claim you are.

.

Because when you get the license fro ATF you agree to do business on their terms. It's entirely voluntary.

 

[Flash]

Get caught selling to a felon and see what happens.

I would never sell to a known felon but I am not going to do a background check on the buyer and the state doesn't require it..

The burden of proof is on the state to prove that you knowing knew that the buyer was a felon. Since the state requires no paperwork or background check then it is your word against theirs. If you are the casual private transfer seller with no obvious intent or nefarious background then that becomes a very hard burden.

 

[SwimExpert]

Are you not concerned about the federal government which is PROHIBITED BY LAW- THE 2A - from preventing Americans from owning firearms??!?!?!?!?

The solution is homemade "ghost" guns.


.

I think some people should not be allowed to own firearms.

And some people believe that should not be allowed to own firearms

But no individual or entity should determine whether "A" should be allowed to own firearms.


There in no way of determining whether someone is going to misuse their firearm.

Someone who was convicted of smoking a joint should not be prevented from defending himself because he is a "felon"


.

Thanks for showing how utterly stupid you are.

There are ways of determining whether someone should possess a firearm. People that are shown to be violent criminals, the dangerously mentally ill, sex offenders etc....

What is "dangerously mentally ill"? Talking to yourself? Paranoid delusions? Depression? Because most of the notorious shooters didnt show any of these.

Individuals who have been committed to mental institutions or adjudicated as a mental defective.

2. Persons with Mental Illness: Thirty-three states and the District of Columbia have laws that restrict access to firearms by persons who are mentally ill. While most states use definitions of mental illness similar to the federal Brady Act81 and its implementing regulations, several states have broadened the category of mentally ill persons who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms.82
For example, under federal law, persons who are voluntarily committed to a mental hospital are not prohibited from possessing firearms.83 The following states have closed this gap by prohibiting firearm purchase or possession by persons who have been voluntarily admitted to a mental hospital within specified time periods: Connecticut (within the preceding six months), Illinois (until receiving a certification that he or she is not a danger), Maryland (until receiving “relief” from the firearm disqualification) and the District of Columbia (within the preceding five years).84

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

Great, a fresh round of persecution for mental illness.

 

[Flash]

[

OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
.

I think you are dealing with an obvious idiot whose education of firearms is from The University of Google and not from any real world knowledge.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Lots of people do? Then it should be easy for you to provide evidence of that.

I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

I buy a gun form you.
I sell it to "Joe" down the street. He sells it to "Steve" across town. "Jim" buys it from "Steve" and then sells the gun to "dave" out on California.
How does the state prove I sold the gun to "Joe"?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Bullshit. All guns purchased by a licensed dealer is in effect registered per Federal Law. Yes you can sell a firearm to whoever you want but there is a paper trail that leads to YOU and when is investigated by law enforcement is will come back to you. You moron. And no one ever said such a private sale had to be reported to the authorities. But it is illegal even in Florida to sell to a minor, a felon or a non-resident. So if you are stupid enough to sell to a anyone prohibited from legally owning a firearm, you are part of the problem.

I've co-owned a gun store for over twenty years and I currently have my FFL.

Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence Gun Law Information Experts

The paper trail stops at you. There is absolutely no requirement for you to do any background check on anybody you sell a firearm to (at least in Florida and other free states I lived in). There is no procedure or documentation required to assure that the person you sell the firearm to is not a felon or non resident. Of course if you sold to a 10 year kid it would be hard to prove that you didn't know it was a minor but otherwise you are home free.

Your assertion that you will be prosecuted if you ever sell to a felon is simply not true. The prosecution would have to prove that you knowingly knew the buyer was a felon. The defense "he told me he wasn't" for the typical gunshow or private transfer type sales has been held up in the courts as being adequate.

Back about 20 years ago I bought a S&W from a dealer. A couple of years later I sold it to Mr. "I have no idea who" at the Tampa gunshow. About five years later I was contacted by the police because the firearm had been used in a crime. After telling the police how I sold it they were satisfied.

No one said you had to do a background check for private sales.

If a weapon you sold is found at a crime scene or in the hands of a person prohibited from owning one and it is traced back to you, you will suffer the consequence, especially if you have no bill of sale indicating when and to whom the weapon was sold. If the bill of sale shows you did in fact sell to a person that is prohibited from owning a firearm you again risk prosecution.

Yea the "I didn't know" defense works real well.

I think you're story is a fabrication.

Please post any case where that actually happened. Go ahead, we'll wait.

What specifically are you asking? Cases where a gun was privately sold and then later used in a crime?


Virtually every gun starts out as a legally manufactured product, but the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) points to three common ways guns move from legal distribution channels to the criminal market:

• Corrupt federally licensed gun dealers: Federally licensed gun dealers send more guns to the criminal market than any other single source. Nearly 60% of the guns used in crime are traced back to a small number—just 1.2%—of crooked gun dealers. Corrupt dealers frequently have high numbers of missing guns, in many cases because they’re selling guns “off the books” to private sellers and criminals. In 2005, the ATF examined 3,083 gun dealers and found 12,274 “missing” firearms.

• Straw purchasing: Straw purchasing is the most common way criminals get guns, accounting for almost 50% of trafficking investigations. A straw purchaser is someone with a clean record who buys guns on behalf of someone legally prohibited from possessing guns. Straw purchasers are often the friends, relatives, spouses or girlfriends of prohibited purchasers. The two Columbine High School shooters recruited friends to buy guns for them at Colorado gun shows. One of the buyers admitted she would not have bought the guns if she had been required to submit to a background check.

• Gun Shows and private gun sales: Gun shows have been called “Tupperware parties for criminals” because they attract large numbers of prohibited buyers. A loophole in federal law allows unlicensed or “private” sellers, many of whom work out of gun shows, to lawfully sell or transfer guns without conducting a criminal background check. Gun show dealers have been known to advertise to criminals with signs that read “no background checks required here.”

Fact Sheet Illegal gun trafficking arms criminals youth Gun Victims Action Council

Seriously? You're quoting an organization that is pushing for:
What are sane gun laws?

Laws that:

• Every gun owner needs to be licensed; Every gun must be registered; Every gun has to carry insurance;
• Require guns to have smart triggers that can only fire if the fingerprint matches the owner's fingerprint;
• Enact parallel charges for parents, relatives and adults, as accomplices, for crimes committed by children who gain access to their guns;
• Prevent suspected terrorists and people on the “No-Fly” list from legally purchasing guns;
• Prevent criminals, the mentally ill and all prohibited purchasers from legally purchasing guns at gun shows or over the internet;
• Prohibit people from carrying guns in restaurants, bars, schools, sporting arenas, workplace parking lots, airports, churches, national parks, onboard Amtrak trains—to name a few.

That is utter bullshit. They have no stats to back up their claims. SHame on you.

I quoted the parts that related to the discussion. You seek to pettifog the issue.

 

[Dan Daly]

I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.

The word you conveniently omitted was "knowingly"....and it applies to both dealers and private folks. You have to prove intent. Sorry. Do not pass go, do not collect your two bills.

 

[CowboyTed]

NRA.ORG Statement Regarding Universal Background Checks
Statement Regarding Universal Background Checks

Nothing in your post negates what I said.
1: We have the background checks we have today because of the NRA
2: There is absolutely no support for the notion that the NRA supports criminals owning guns.

Dumb fucker...


Universal Background Checks...
if it is not universal you are supporting criminals owning guns.

 

[M14 Shooter]

NRA.ORG Statement Regarding Universal Background Checks
Statement Regarding Universal Background Checks

Nothing in your post negates what I said.
1: We have the background checks we have today because of the NRA
2: There is absolutely no support for the notion that the NRA supports criminals owning guns.

Dumb fucker...
Universal Background Checks...

You obviously did not read the entire conversation.

if it is not universal you are supporting criminals owning guns.

This is a lie.

 

[SwimExpert]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Speaking of a need to brush on up reading comprehension skills, you're misusing this concept. The "ignorance of the law" maxim refers to knowledge of what the law contains. For example, if you are driving 10 mph over the speed limit, there is no legal defense in claiming that you did not know the law forbid exceeding the speed limit. On the other hand, if you can demonstrate that the speed limit was not adequately posted (thus you did not know what the speed limit was) and that your speed was not an unreasonable speed based on what information was available to you (i.e. demonstrate that a reasonable person would not have known that the speed was inappropriate) then you have a legal defense to the speeding ticket.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Speaking of a need to brush on up reading comprehension skills, you're misusing this concept. The "ignorance of the law" maxim refers to knowledge of what the law contains. For example, if you are driving 10 mph over the speed limit, there is no legal defense in claiming that you did not know the law forbid exceeding the speed limit. On the other hand, if you can demonstrate that the speed limit was not adequately posted (thus you did not know what the speed limit was) and that your speed was not an unreasonable speed based on what information was available to you (i.e. demonstrate that a reasonable person would not have known that the speed was inappropriate) then you have a legal defense to the speeding ticket.

And, specifically...
Ignorance of the fact that the person you sold a gun to was a felon means that you did not break the law against selling guns to felons.

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm sure its' the case. I've sold plenty of personal guns to complete strangers. And bought plenty. And I know lots of people who do similar.
But so what? Criminals get guns largely from other criminals.

You're not very bright. Those guns are registered to you, if one is ever linked to a crime it is you they will be looking for. If it is found you sold to someone prohibited from owning a firearm you will be prosecuted and risk prison time and heavy fines. Criminals get guns largely by stealing them.

Im not very bright?
There is no registry in my state.
The state would have to prove I knew the person I sold to was prohibited.
They cannot prosecute me for an act done by someone else.
Criminals get guns either by stealing them or by buying/trading for stolen ones from other criminals.
Id suggest you temper your comments when addressing me on this issue. I know far more about it than you do.

You fill out an ATF 4473 form when you purchase a firearm from a dealer. That is in effect a registration showing who the firearm belongs to, that my friend is a federal law. Doesn't matter what shithole state you live in.

If the states find a weapon you sold in the hands of a person prohibited from owning such a weapon then that's all the proof they need. You're ignorance is not a defense.

They can prosecute if you illegally sold to a person prohibited from owning a firearm.

Anyone selling a gun to a person prohibited from buying a gun is a criminal.

I doubt you know much of anything.

I've been selling guns for over twenty years and possess an FFL.

OK, I can see I am not dealing with a a PhD here.
The 4473 and A&D book are not registration. The information is not transmitted anywhere but held by the dealer for 20 years or until discontinuance of business.
Once the buyer walks out the gun is his to do what he wants. He can gift it. He can sell it. He can destroy it. He is not required to keep any record whatsoever. Of the 4473s in my possession when I closed about 90% were no longer accurate as the buyers had moved, sold the guns, died, etc.
Again, the state needs to provide proof you knowingly sold the gun to a prohibited person.
Again, I asked for cases where anyone was prosecuted for selling a gun to a prohibited person where he didnt know for a fact the person was prohibited. You failed.

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.

Then it should be no problem for you to provide examples.
It is not ignorance f the law but ignorance of circumstance. IN this case the state would have to show the seller knew or reasonably could have been expected to know the buyer was prohibited.
You are failing rather badly here.

 

[The Rabbi]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Speaking of a need to brush on up reading comprehension skills, you're misusing this concept. The "ignorance of the law" maxim refers to knowledge of what the law contains. For example, if you are driving 10 mph over the speed limit, there is no legal defense in claiming that you did not know the law forbid exceeding the speed limit. On the other hand, if you can demonstrate that the speed limit was not adequately posted (thus you did not know what the speed limit was) and that your speed was not an unreasonable speed based on what information was available to you (i.e. demonstrate that a reasonable person would not have known that the speed was inappropriate) then you have a legal defense to the speeding ticket.

And, specifically...
Ignorance of the fact that the person you sold a gun to was a felon means that you did not break the law against selling guns to felons.

Which is true because the law is "knowingly".

 

[Flash]

You need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Google it and you will find several examples rather quickly. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is illegal to sell a firearm to a person not eligible to own a firearm.

You need to get a brain.

In most states there is not a requirement to prove that the person is eligible to own a firearm before selling him one. That means the burden of proof is on the state to prove that you knowingly sold one to an ineligible person.

The mere fact that you sold the firearm to an ineligible person is not the crime but the fact that you knew he was ineligible is the crime. Do you understand the difference? There is a substantial burden of proof on the state.

If you ask a person if he is prohibited from owning a firearm and he says no you have met the minimal requirements to prove that you are not selling to someone that is ineligible but even then the states usually don't require that you document that.

That is what the big movement by the Libtards to require universal background checks is all about. They don't like the idea of private transfer where no records are kept of who gets a firearm. They really don't like the idea of somebody owning a firearm without government permission even if it is a Constitutional right.

Too bad you don't keep up with current events or you would know things like that.