There is NO RISK in privatizing SS and investing in stock market!!!

[healthmyths]

Healthmyths is the single biggest source of financial misinformation on this entire board. I don't just mean this thread. I mean ALL of them. Fortunately, nobody actually follows his advice.

CLU, ChFC. LOMA, HIAA

Then PROVE above numbers are totally wrong you Unqualified Charter LIFE UNDERWRITER!!!
YOU are the same type of idiot that told people that they were earning dividends from the mutual life insurance company when IN fact you canvas baggers were earning 50 to 60% commission selling expensive
whole life insurance! Idiots like you cost people lives because you would sell a $10,000 whole life policy
BECAUSE it had a savings (not true.. by the way simple return of insured's own money!!) instead of a
$100,000 term policy for the same cost. And as a result how many of your clients died with little more
then their $10,000 whole life policy! What a carpet bagging ignorant person.
FACTS are indisputable!
1) 1950 16.5 people worked for every one getting SS benefits.
2) 2013 2.45 people working for every one getting SS benefits.

And YOU are calling the TRUSTEES of the SS fund liars???
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
The Trustees project that this cash-flow deficit will average about $75 billion between 2013 and 2018 before rising steeply as income growth slows to the sustainable trend rate after the economic recovery is complete and the number of beneficiaries continues to grow at a substantially faster rate than the number of covered workers. Redemption of trust fund asset reserves by the General Fund of the Treasury will provide the resources needed to offset Social Security’s annual aggregate cash-flow deficits.

The Trustees project that the combined trust fund asset reserves at the beginning of each year will exceed that year's projected costs through 2027.
For the seventh consecutive year, the Social Security Act requires that the Trustees issue a “Medicare funding warning” because projected non-dedicated sources of revenues—primarily general revenues—are expected to continue to account for more than 45 percent of Medicare’s outlays in 2013, a threshold
breached for the first time in fiscal year 2010.

WHERE in the hell do you get off calling THESE people liars which YOU are doing when you say:
"Healthmyths is the single biggest source of financial misinformation on this entire board. I don't just mean this thread. I mean ALL of them. "
The above statements are made under oath you lying carpet bagging whole life thief!
You remind me of a whole life insurance salesman who when asked "how much rate of return does your whole life policy pay the policyholder" and you like him probably would agree..."I don't know anything about how the stock market works"!!!!
IDIOTS like you and him don't even know how a whole life policy works so please don't embarrass yourself any further Mr. Life Office Management Association !!!

 

[bripat9643]

If you didn't cash out your stocks, then your 401K would be worth considerably more than it was in 2007. It would definitely be worth a lot more than your SS account, which is worth exactly zero.

Your social security check this month was zero?

How much money is in your Social Security "account."

The SS account is over 2 trillion dollars.

FACT...
Please check out the Trustees report:
Government Revenue Details: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
Just in case YOU can't comprehend what the above means..

A) Outgoing SS checks amounts ARE GREATER then SS payments coming in.
In simpler terms... More money going out then coming in... Since 2010!!!
B) To make up the difference between spending more then revenue coming in,
SS has been taking money from the US TREASURY by cashing in Treasury bonds.

Can't continue that way folks!!

No, that's not what that means. You're an idiot. They excluded interest income when they referred to non-interest income being exceeded. The whole point of investing the Trust Fund is to earn interest.

The balance of the Trust Fund actually INCREASED in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. How could we be depleting SS if the Trust Fund keeps getting larger?

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

 

[Toro]

Here is what I meant from earlier.

Most people are better off having the government run their money in government obligations than managing their own money themselves. For example, from 1983 through to 2013 when the S&P 500 was up about 12% per year, this is how investors in mutual funds did;

Research firm Dalbar earlier this year published 30 years of data on what typical mutual-fund investors earned and the results weren't pretty: An annualized return of 3.69% in stock funds and 0.7% in bond funds. Yet someone fully invested in the S&P 500 over that period would have earned eight times as much as a typical equity-fund investor. Results for bonds were similar.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/stock-investing-isnt-all-in-the-timing-ahead-of-the-tape-1408646558

And these are people who are more educated, have savings and are generally better off than the average person. Less educated and well-off people are liable to do much worse.

 

[Toro]

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

False. That's akin to saying Treasury securities are also worth exactly nothing, which would come as quite a surprise to the market.

Treasury bills, notes and bonds are liabilities of the US Treasury, as are SS trust liabilities.

 

[Toro]

BTW, the OP is completely wrong. Of course there is risk in privatizing SS and investing in stocks. The question is whether the risk is worth taking. And the answer is "Yes." But for most people, they should be in a defined contribution plan having professionals manage their money, not in 401k-style plans.

 

[Camp]

What kind of insurance policies do you get with a private investment? I assume none, and that you would have to buy your own disability and death insurance to protect your family. I also assume the cost would differ from person to person. How much would it cost to get insurance to give you a lifetime of disability checks if you become disabled? How much would it cost to get enough insurance to guarantee your kids an income through their childhood and teen years?

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you didn't cash out your stocks, then your 401K would be worth considerably more than it was in 2007. It would definitely be worth a lot more than your SS account, which is worth exactly zero.

Your social security check this month was zero?

How much money is in your Social Security "account."

The SS account is over 2 trillion dollars.

FACT...
Please check out the Trustees report:
Government Revenue Details: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
Just in case YOU can't comprehend what the above means..

A) Outgoing SS checks amounts ARE GREATER then SS payments coming in.
In simpler terms... More money going out then coming in... Since 2010!!!
B) To make up the difference between spending more then revenue coming in,
SS has been taking money from the US TREASURY by cashing in Treasury bonds.

Can't continue that way folks!!

No, that's not what that means. You're an idiot. They excluded interest income when they referred to non-interest income being exceeded. The whole point of investing the Trust Fund is to earn interest.

The balance of the Trust Fund actually INCREASED in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. How could we be depleting SS if the Trust Fund keeps getting larger?

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

If they are worth nothing, why was Social Security able to draw interest income off of them the last couple years in order to supplement payroll tax revenues in order to pay recipients?

think before you post

 

[haissem123]

you people think you are oh so smart. lol. that's funny. you are smart enough to play texas holdem with the very very short stack every time. pump and dump is name of the big boys game and they take turns winning so you think they aren't working together. lol. your pride is your ignorance. truly you are not as smart as you all think you are. you think you are winning? lol. funny. you are funny silly people.

I'm sorry...exactly what kind of drugs do I need to take in order for this word salad to make any kind of sense?

if you can't figure it out it isn't me that makes no sense. go gamble your "retirement" away. that's funny. retirement.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

Almost all investments are in some form of 'IOU', except for something with usable value. What's a stock certificate worth?

It's only worth what someone will pay you for it. You can't eat it, drink it, heat your home with it...in fact...it's worth less than government bond because at least a government bond has the full faith and credit of the US government behind it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The only right way to diversify SS into stocks would be for the SS administration to set up an index fund or funds and give Social Security payroll tax payers an annual option of how much of their payroll tax they wanted to go into stocks, up to a pre-established maximum, maybe 20% or whatever was agreed upon. Their eventual SS retirement amount would then be rated based on the difference in return of the stocks vs. conventional SS.

Keep the private sector sharks out of the pool, IOW.

 

[bripat9643]

If you didn't cash out your stocks, then your 401K would be worth considerably more than it was in 2007. It would definitely be worth a lot more than your SS account, which is worth exactly zero.

Your social security check this month was zero?

How much money is in your Social Security "account."

The SS account is over 2 trillion dollars.

FACT...
Please check out the Trustees report:
Government Revenue Details: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
Just in case YOU can't comprehend what the above means..

A) Outgoing SS checks amounts ARE GREATER then SS payments coming in.
In simpler terms... More money going out then coming in... Since 2010!!!
B) To make up the difference between spending more then revenue coming in,
SS has been taking money from the US TREASURY by cashing in Treasury bonds.

Can't continue that way folks!!

No, that's not what that means. You're an idiot. They excluded interest income when they referred to non-interest income being exceeded. The whole point of investing the Trust Fund is to earn interest.

The balance of the Trust Fund actually INCREASED in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. How could we be depleting SS if the Trust Fund keeps getting larger?

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

If they are worth nothing, why was Social Security able to draw interest income off of them the last couple years in order to supplement payroll tax revenues in order to pay recipients?

think before you post

They didn't. All payments come out of the general fund. They always have, from the very first check the program issued.

 

[bripat9643]

[
So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

Almost all investments are in some form of 'IOU', except for something with usable value. What's a stock certificate worth?

It's only worth what someone will pay you for it. You can't eat it, drink it, heat your home with it...in fact...it's worth less than government bond because at least a government bond has the full faith and credit of the US government behind it.

When you issue an IOU to yourself, it's absolutely worthless. Try it out and see. Write "IOU $10 trillion" on a piece of paper. Then put it in your pocket. Now go out and see if you can buy a yacht with it.

The so-called "Trust Fund" is full of IOU's the government issued to itself. They are worth exactly as much as the IOU you just put in your pocket: nothing, in other words.

 

[bripat9643]

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

False. That's akin to saying Treasury securities are also worth exactly nothing, which would come as quite a surprise to the market.

Treasury bills, notes and bonds are liabilities of the US Treasury, as are SS trust liabilities.

Treasury securities are worthless to the government because they are liabilities to the government.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you didn't cash out your stocks, then your 401K would be worth considerably more than it was in 2007. It would definitely be worth a lot more than your SS account, which is worth exactly zero.

Your social security check this month was zero?

How much money is in your Social Security "account."

The SS account is over 2 trillion dollars.

FACT...
Please check out the Trustees report:
Government Revenue Details: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
Just in case YOU can't comprehend what the above means..

A) Outgoing SS checks amounts ARE GREATER then SS payments coming in.
In simpler terms... More money going out then coming in... Since 2010!!!
B) To make up the difference between spending more then revenue coming in,
SS has been taking money from the US TREASURY by cashing in Treasury bonds.

Can't continue that way folks!!

No, that's not what that means. You're an idiot. They excluded interest income when they referred to non-interest income being exceeded. The whole point of investing the Trust Fund is to earn interest.

The balance of the Trust Fund actually INCREASED in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. How could we be depleting SS if the Trust Fund keeps getting larger?

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

If they are worth nothing, why was Social Security able to draw interest income off of them the last couple years in order to supplement payroll tax revenues in order to pay recipients?

think before you post

They didn't. All payments come out of the general fund. They always have, from the very first check the program issued.

That's because the general fund borrows the money dumbass. That's what bonds are - loans that pay interest. What do you think your money in the bank is?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

False. That's akin to saying Treasury securities are also worth exactly nothing, which would come as quite a surprise to the market.

Treasury bills, notes and bonds are liabilities of the US Treasury, as are SS trust liabilities.

Treasury securities are worthless to the government because they are liabilities to the government.

Social Security is a lender not a borrower. It's hard for you to understand but Social Security is a separate agency.

 

[bripat9643]

If you didn't cash out your stocks, then your 401K would be worth considerably more than it was in 2007. It would definitely be worth a lot more than your SS account, which is worth exactly zero.

Your social security check this month was zero?

How much money is in your Social Security "account."

The SS account is over 2 trillion dollars.

FACT...
Please check out the Trustees report:
Government Revenue Details: Federal State Local for 2008 - Charts
Social Security’s total expenditures have exceeded non-interest income of its combined trust funds since 2010, and the Trustees estimate that Social Security cost will exceed non-interest income throughout the 75-year projection period. The deficit of non-interest income relative to cost was about $49 billion in 2010, $45 billion in 2011, and $55 billion in 2012.
Just in case YOU can't comprehend what the above means..

A) Outgoing SS checks amounts ARE GREATER then SS payments coming in.
In simpler terms... More money going out then coming in... Since 2010!!!
B) To make up the difference between spending more then revenue coming in,
SS has been taking money from the US TREASURY by cashing in Treasury bonds.

Can't continue that way folks!!

No, that's not what that means. You're an idiot. They excluded interest income when they referred to non-interest income being exceeded. The whole point of investing the Trust Fund is to earn interest.

The balance of the Trust Fund actually INCREASED in 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. How could we be depleting SS if the Trust Fund keeps getting larger?

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

If they are worth nothing, why was Social Security able to draw interest income off of them the last couple years in order to supplement payroll tax revenues in order to pay recipients?

think before you post

They didn't. All payments come out of the general fund. They always have, from the very first check the program issued.

That's because the general fund borrows the money dumbass. That's what bonds are - loans that pay interest. What do you think your money in the bank is?

You just don't get it, dumbass. You can't loan money to yourself, and you can't pay yourself interest. You and a bank are two separate entities. When a bank pays you interest on your deposit, money is transferred from one entity, the bank, to another, you. However, the recipient of the interest paid on the IOUs in the trust fund is the federal government. The entity paying the interest is also the federal government. Net money transferred to or from the federal government is zero. The same thing happened when the IOU's were issued. Net amount loaned by the government? zero. Net amount loaned to the government? zero.

Those IOU's are utterly worthless because they are not claims on anything that can generate revenue for the government.

 

[bripat9643]

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

False. That's akin to saying Treasury securities are also worth exactly nothing, which would come as quite a surprise to the market.

Treasury bills, notes and bonds are liabilities of the US Treasury, as are SS trust liabilities.

Treasury securities are worthless to the government because they are liabilities to the government.

Social Security is a lender not a borrower. It's hard for you to understand but Social Security is a separate agency.

Social Security is a branch of the government. Social Security (the government) purchased the securities and the federal treasury (the government) issued the securities. The issuer and the purchaser are the same entity.

 

[healthmyths]

So the number of IOUs in the so-called "Trust Fund" increased? They're still worth exactly nothing.

False. That's akin to saying Treasury securities are also worth exactly nothing, which would come as quite a surprise to the market.

Treasury bills, notes and bonds are liabilities of the US Treasury, as are SS trust liabilities.

Treasury securities are worthless to the government because they are liabilities to the government.

Social Security is a lender not a borrower. It's hard for you to understand but Social Security is a separate agency.

"Separate Agency"???
Well then explain WHY your Medicare/SS payments are counted as Federal Government general revenue ?

In 2012 this was the Total Federal Revenues and sources:
REPEAT this is total Revenue sources for Federal Government

• Personal income tax $1,141 43.4% people that work for companies that work for profits primarily.
• Social security/Medicare tax 925 35.2% employer pays Half of total paid-- where will that come from???
• Corporate income tax 329 12.5% corporate evil profits generate taxes - then dividends taxed again!
• Customs,Duties, Misc. 103 3.9%
• Excise taxes 30 1.1%
• Estate & Gift 14 0.5%

Total: $2,628 billion 100%
Reduce the Tax Burden Government Revenue and Tax Trends Charts

Do you Understand???
The Social Security/Medicare tax total revenue $925 billion counted as revenue!
BUT Social Security Administration mandatory enacted $804.6 billion
Department of Health and Human Services including Medicare and Medicaid $804.2 billion
Total Spent --$1.608 trillion...
A total of $ 925 billion in revenue:
A total of $1.608 trillion spent...
Shortfall: $683 billion... which is then borrowed from "SS reserves" decreasing the amount of "reserves"!
Still a loss made up by prior revenues YES but still a loss in gross revenue versus expenses!
2012 United States federal budget - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Vandalshandle]

The treasury certificates in the SSA hands are worth exactly what those same certificates are worth on the open market, and they are bought and sold every day all around the world.

Edward Jones Making Sense of Investing

 

[bripat9643]

The treasury certificates in the SSA hands are worth exactly what those same certificates are worth on the open market, and they are bought and sold every day all around the world.

Edward Jones Making Sense of Investing

On the open market, they are worth zero to the federal government since they are liabilities of the federal government. They are worth something to you and me because if we bought one the federal government would then owe us money, but the federal government itself gains nothing by buying them.