There is no Morality

[froggy]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

 

[Intense]

Sontarans love war. So war must be moral.

Sontaran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Are you trying to imply that Sontarans are like Marines?

 

[amrchaos]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Hold it---yes, it is true that atheists got the Bible kicked out of public schools. (In fact, I am proud of that fact!! ) We did perform a favor for all religin America as well since the indoctrination you speek of can come in a varied type.

Whose Christianity--Mormon or Catholic
What happen to those of other religions?

The list goes on and on.

 

[froggy]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Hold it---yes, it is true that atheists got the Bible kicked out of public schools. (In fact, I am proud of that fact!! ) We did perform a favor for all religin America as well since the indoctrination you speek of can come in a varied type.

Whose Christianity--Mormon or Catholic
What happen to those of other religions?

The list goes on and on.

a favor yeah look at the schools children having to take prosaic because of the stress caused by the fear of going to school. i bet they're proud of you.

 

[KittenKoder]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Not accurate, actually. Atheism didn't start "growing" until after the increase in violence and children becoming overly sexually active, actually. The real reason it started growing was because of the hatred of anything "different" that increased with the recent changes in political climate (Bush years) and the huge increase in Muslim immigrants (probably not their fault just an unhappy coincidence). The reality is that holding ones morals to a religious belief makes them easily broken, so many junkies and criminals in the homeless system still think they are "okay" because they follow the christian beliefs ... thinking they are safe just because they believe in it. These type of people have no morals, but have a religious belief. Morals should be taught first without religion, one moral is really required of all people, obey the law, period, no exceptions. My father the atheist taught me that, and it's the only moral I have now, it is also the only moral I need. My christian mother kept finding religious justifications for breaking every law, even every moral, she would go on about how some lies are good (Santa Claus, Easter Bunny for two major examples). No, morals are subjective, period, and the law of the land is all we should worry about, the rest is just fluff.

 

[Intense]

You know religion used to require human sacrifice right?

Some, not all.

All the original ones except one did.

Considering how God reacted to Cain Killing Abel, or Adam and Eve Eating the Apple, if you want to go there, or even Satan, no death penalty involved there. The reports in The Bible are from the Human Perspective, and may be out of Phase to whatever level. I believe in the Prophets, yet I have concern for the Accounting, so many factors have influenced the Writings, Who is to say definitively what is from God, and what is from Man. These are matters of Faith and Grace. What if God never wanted the Killing? Scripture taught that God never wanted the Temple, no graven images, no cheating. What was put into print to justify the acts of respected leaders, and what was of Divine Origin?

 

[KittenKoder]

Some, not all.

All the original ones except one did.

Considering how God reacted to Cain Killing Abel, or Adam and Eve Eating the Apple, if you want to go there, or even Satan, no death penalty involved there. The reports in The Bible are from the Human Perspective, and may be out of Phase to whatever level. I believe in the Prophets, yet I have concern for the Accounting, so many factors have influenced the Writings, Who is to say definitively what is from God, and what is from Man. These are matters of Faith and Grace. What if God never wanted the Killing? Scripture taught that God never wanted the Temple, no graven images, no cheating. What was put into print to justify the acts of respected leaders, and what was of Divine Origin?

If you believe in those myths, great, I don't.

The Aztecs had not only human sacrifices, but also cannibalism. Incans sacrificed people all the time. One native American tribe I know of had human sacrifices, the others only did animal ones. Most of the European cultures had human sacrifices (especially the Romans and Greeks). Christian religions are all babies compared to others, they just figured out one fact that the Ancient Egyptians did, if you kill off all the people, then no one will follow you.

 

[Intense]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Hold it---yes, it is true that atheists got the Bible kicked out of public schools. (In fact, I am proud of that fact!! ) We did perform a favor for all religin America as well since the indoctrination you speek of can come in a varied type.

Whose Christianity--Mormon or Catholic
What happen to those of other religions?

The list goes on and on.

Personally I believe the World Religions should be taught in School, under Sociology, Civics. Religious Studies should be taught separately, from Church, Temple, Mosque, what have you.
Free Expression of Religion being protected Constitutionally, should be practiced with little constraint, erring on the side of the Individual. Celebration of Holy Days, Holidays, Plays, Parades, Events, Constructions, should not be obstructed. For example a community of 85% one Faith want to set up a Nativity, it should be aloud. The same considerations should be made for the Minorities. All within Reason.

 

[Intense]

All the original ones except one did.

Considering how God reacted to Cain Killing Abel, or Adam and Eve Eating the Apple, if you want to go there, or even Satan, no death penalty involved there. The reports in The Bible are from the Human Perspective, and may be out of Phase to whatever level. I believe in the Prophets, yet I have concern for the Accounting, so many factors have influenced the Writings, Who is to say definitively what is from God, and what is from Man. These are matters of Faith and Grace. What if God never wanted the Killing? Scripture taught that God never wanted the Temple, no graven images, no cheating. What was put into print to justify the acts of respected leaders, and what was of Divine Origin?

If you believe in those myths, great, I don't.

The Aztecs had not only human sacrifices, but also cannibalism. Incans sacrificed people all the time. One native American tribe I know of had human sacrifices, the others only did animal ones. Most of the European cultures had human sacrifices (especially the Romans and Greeks). Christian religions are all babies compared to others, they just figured out one fact that the Ancient Egyptians did, if you kill off all the people, then no one will follow you.

My main point was to distinguish between God what The People of the Book claimed about Him. Thats what I love about Locke, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, they took The Two Great Commandments, Applied Conscience, and Ran with it.

Cannibalism I have zero Tolerance for. Unjustified Killing, a Total waste, a Sin against Creation.

I've always been fascinated by American Indian History. Been through some Indian Lands.

 

[froggy]

were trained by what we see in our home as we grow. that's why atheism keeps spreading they don't want their children exposed the bible. now look at the school children with all the shootings, raping, beatings, just to have a laugh but morality doesn't affect us. yeah right

Hold it---yes, it is true that atheists got the Bible kicked out of public schools. (In fact, I am proud of that fact!! ) We did perform a favor for all religin America as well since the indoctrination you speek of can come in a varied type.

Whose Christianity--Mormon or Catholic
What happen to those of other religions?

The list goes on and on.

Personally I believe the World Religions should be taught in School, under Sociology, Civics. Religious Studies should be taught separately, from Church, Temple, Mosque, what have you.
Free Expression of Religion being protected Constitutionally, should be practiced with little constraint, erring on the side of the Individual. Celebration of Holy Days, Holidays, Plays, Parades, Events, Constructions, should not be obstructed. For example a community of 85% one Faith want to set up a Nativity, it should be aloud. The same considerations should be made for the Minorities. All within Reason.

that would be a start to getting back on the right path.

 

[KittenKoder]

Considering how God reacted to Cain Killing Abel, or Adam and Eve Eating the Apple, if you want to go there, or even Satan, no death penalty involved there. The reports in The Bible are from the Human Perspective, and may be out of Phase to whatever level. I believe in the Prophets, yet I have concern for the Accounting, so many factors have influenced the Writings, Who is to say definitively what is from God, and what is from Man. These are matters of Faith and Grace. What if God never wanted the Killing? Scripture taught that God never wanted the Temple, no graven images, no cheating. What was put into print to justify the acts of respected leaders, and what was of Divine Origin?

If you believe in those myths, great, I don't.

The Aztecs had not only human sacrifices, but also cannibalism. Incans sacrificed people all the time. One native American tribe I know of had human sacrifices, the others only did animal ones. Most of the European cultures had human sacrifices (especially the Romans and Greeks). Christian religions are all babies compared to others, they just figured out one fact that the Ancient Egyptians did, if you kill off all the people, then no one will follow you.

My main point was to distinguish between God what The People of the Book claimed about Him. Thats what I love about Locke, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, they took The Two Great Commandments, Applied Conscience, and Ran with it.

Cannibalism I have zero Tolerance for. Unjustified Killing, a Total waste, a Sin against Creation.

I've always been fascinated by American Indian History. Been through some Indian Lands.

To me death is a release, as well as a blessing, to most people, so I don't agree with the law as it is religiously, but I abide by it thanks to my atheist father. My religious belief shows that death is not only something to not fear, but that it is a glorious transition when you finally get to finish your destiny, for while you live your destiny shall remain incomplete. Again, morality is subjective, my religion also teaches that the only truly horrible sin is to steal or lie, those two things are guaranteed to prevent you from completing your destiny as Anpu shall not let you enter the under world (heaven) if you have guilt in your heart (if it weighs more than a feather). It also teaches that the law of the land is the law you obey, again the heart and feather thing come into play there. The native American history I don't know as much about, other than small amounts of their religious traditions. Before I chose my religion I studied many, most just small amounts of, the ancient ones (pre-christianity) I studied more on because they intrigued me the most. One finding that lead me to the Ancient Egyptians was that their myths seemed to be mirrored everywhere, even most of the christian ones (look up Imhotep for the Jesus story ), and since it was one of the few first religions that meant something to me. Their pantheon is also more believable, Ptah at the very top as creator of all but who just watches everything from his place, Rya as the "father" of the world who just makes sure everything runs smoothly and sets the laws for the other gods, on down to Anpu who guards the gates of the under world and judges the souls of all who enter. It's a rich religion, complex and simple at the same time, and leaves a lot of room for science. My personal belief is that one day we can all become gods, that our destinies are actually lessons to teach us how to be gods of our own worlds. But morality doesn't befit a god, though laws are important enough that we must learn to follow them.

 

[Cryptick`]

Morality is highly subjective.

This is where I was trying to get too!


DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!


but seriously, I agree.

 

[mudwhistle]

You won't grab em and pork em though will you?

Is that a serious question????

No.......I......won't. Because I was born with the knowledge of right and wrong.

You were a very precocious baby if you were born with the knowledge of right and wrong. Most of us were born with the ability to breathe, suck milk, pee and crap. And most of us had to learn about right and wrong.

I didn't have to be taught not to show prejudice, nor did I have to be taught that making a woman or a child cry in pain is not music to my ears.

 

[KittenKoder]

Is that a serious question????

No.......I......won't. Because I was born with the knowledge of right and wrong.

You were a very precocious baby if you were born with the knowledge of right and wrong. Most of us were born with the ability to breathe, suck milk, pee and crap. And most of us had to learn about right and wrong.

I didn't have to be taught not to show prejudice, nor did I have to be taught that making a woman or a child cry in pain is not music to my ears.

Actually, yes you did, your environment teaches you more than actual books and catch phrases. You learned it by observation of how others behaved around you, so yes you were taught.

 

[Intense]

If you believe in those myths, great, I don't.

The Aztecs had not only human sacrifices, but also cannibalism. Incans sacrificed people all the time. One native American tribe I know of had human sacrifices, the others only did animal ones. Most of the European cultures had human sacrifices (especially the Romans and Greeks). Christian religions are all babies compared to others, they just figured out one fact that the Ancient Egyptians did, if you kill off all the people, then no one will follow you.

My main point was to distinguish between God what The People of the Book claimed about Him. Thats what I love about Locke, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, they took The Two Great Commandments, Applied Conscience, and Ran with it.

Cannibalism I have zero Tolerance for. Unjustified Killing, a Total waste, a Sin against Creation.

I've always been fascinated by American Indian History. Been through some Indian Lands.

To me death is a release, as well as a blessing, to most people, so I don't agree with the law as it is religiously, but I abide by it thanks to my atheist father. My religious belief shows that death is not only something to not fear, but that it is a glorious transition when you finally get to finish your destiny, for while you live your destiny shall remain incomplete. Again, morality is subjective, my religion also teaches that the only truly horrible sin is to steal or lie, those two things are guaranteed to prevent you from completing your destiny as Anpu shall not let you enter the under world (heaven) if you have guilt in your heart (if it weighs more than a feather). It also teaches that the law of the land is the law you obey, again the heart and feather thing come into play there. The native American history I don't know as much about, other than small amounts of their religious traditions. Before I chose my religion I studied many, most just small amounts of, the ancient ones (pre-christianity) I studied more on because they intrigued me the most. One finding that lead me to the Ancient Egyptians was that their myths seemed to be mirrored everywhere, even most of the christian ones (look up Imhotep for the Jesus story ), and since it was one of the few first religions that meant something to me. Their pantheon is also more believable, Ptah at the very top as creator of all but who just watches everything from his place, Rya as the "father" of the world who just makes sure everything runs smoothly and sets the laws for the other gods, on down to Anpu who guards the gates of the under world and judges the souls of all who enter. It's a rich religion, complex and simple at the same time, and leaves a lot of room for science. My personal belief is that one day we can all become gods, that our destinies are actually lessons to teach us how to be gods of our own worlds. But morality doesn't befit a god, though laws are important enough that we must learn to follow them.

The weight of a feather reminds me of the necessity of letting go. When you let go, there is no weight. Easier said than done, granted. Conscience being the Guide, We All are here overcoming Our Own obstacles, hopefully, developing into being whole or complete. I have never failed to feel God's presence, I have never been alone in that sense, yet that feeling tells me where I am wrong, or at fault. Sometimes for Us things are clear, sometimes things need to be untangled, unlocked, or untied. We usually don't get it, but there is an order to the Universe. Like that little drop from the Ocean Returns, on God's Terms to it, so do We return to Our Maker. My perspective is of God, a part of God, not Separate but Equal. Who has been there and returned with Instructions? What does it matter in the Whole of things? What is It's relevance to Us Here?
I believe in Purpose and Principle. I believe in Resolution and Development, and Improvement.

 

[Immanuel]

well, as someone who is religious, I believe we are all born with the sense of what is right and what is wrong, whether the person is religious or not in favor of any religion.... I think we all inherited a conscience from adam and eve....who ate from the tree of the knowledge of the proverbial ''good and evil''....this 'story' in the Bible, refers to just that....we ALL have been born with this ''knowledge, this sense of what is right and what is wrong''.... NOTE! this does not exclude that we may get screwed up along the way and lose this sense of morality....

Good post. It seems that you were thinking of Romans 2:

14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

Immie

 

[KittenKoder]

My main point was to distinguish between God what The People of the Book claimed about Him. Thats what I love about Locke, Madison, Jefferson, Thoreau, they took The Two Great Commandments, Applied Conscience, and Ran with it.

Cannibalism I have zero Tolerance for. Unjustified Killing, a Total waste, a Sin against Creation.

I've always been fascinated by American Indian History. Been through some Indian Lands.

To me death is a release, as well as a blessing, to most people, so I don't agree with the law as it is religiously, but I abide by it thanks to my atheist father. My religious belief shows that death is not only something to not fear, but that it is a glorious transition when you finally get to finish your destiny, for while you live your destiny shall remain incomplete. Again, morality is subjective, my religion also teaches that the only truly horrible sin is to steal or lie, those two things are guaranteed to prevent you from completing your destiny as Anpu shall not let you enter the under world (heaven) if you have guilt in your heart (if it weighs more than a feather). It also teaches that the law of the land is the law you obey, again the heart and feather thing come into play there. The native American history I don't know as much about, other than small amounts of their religious traditions. Before I chose my religion I studied many, most just small amounts of, the ancient ones (pre-christianity) I studied more on because they intrigued me the most. One finding that lead me to the Ancient Egyptians was that their myths seemed to be mirrored everywhere, even most of the christian ones (look up Imhotep for the Jesus story ), and since it was one of the few first religions that meant something to me. Their pantheon is also more believable, Ptah at the very top as creator of all but who just watches everything from his place, Rya as the "father" of the world who just makes sure everything runs smoothly and sets the laws for the other gods, on down to Anpu who guards the gates of the under world and judges the souls of all who enter. It's a rich religion, complex and simple at the same time, and leaves a lot of room for science. My personal belief is that one day we can all become gods, that our destinies are actually lessons to teach us how to be gods of our own worlds. But morality doesn't befit a god, though laws are important enough that we must learn to follow them.

The weight of a feather reminds me of the necessity of letting go. When you let go, there is no weight. Easier said than done, granted. Conscience being the Guide, We All are here overcoming Our Own obstacles, hopefully, developing into being whole or complete. I have never failed to feel God's presence, I have never been alone in that sense, yet that feeling tells me where I am wrong, or at fault. Sometimes for Us things are clear, sometimes things need to be untangled, unlocked, or untied. We usually don't get it, but there is an order to the Universe. Like that little drop from the Ocean Returns, on God's Terms to it, so do We return to Our Maker. My perspective is of God, a part of God, not Separate but Equal. Who has been there and returned with Instructions? What does it matter in the Whole of things? What is It's relevance to Us Here?
I believe in Purpose and Principle. I believe in Resolution and Development, and Improvement.

That is an apt addition. Guilt isn't blame other people place on you, but blame you place on yourself. It is possible to shed guilt through "forgiveness", but the guilt you feel from lies and theft weighs people down the most and is the toughest to shed. However, it must be a true lie to give you guilt, simply not knowing doesn't make it a lie.

But as I said, it's all subjective. Just obey the law of the land, since that's something you have to anyway.

 

[mudwhistle]

If you take God out of the picture, meaning that He does not exist, there would be no natural, built-in morality within man. All standards would be man-made, and there would be a lot less agreement about stndards than there are now. It's pretty bad now.

Religion may help define a standard that is workable, but there would be no way to know right from wrong, or good from bad as an absolute with God totally out of the bicture. Religion is man's way of reaching out to, and searching for God. Blindness would be in charge.

Without religion, I suppose some people might be nicer than others, but only because they want to be nice. It really would not matter. We would be just like all of the other animals, only worse. Look around, LOL some are that way now.

I believe God has created us all with knowledge, or a build-in alarm system for moral standards. We abuse it, and neglect it, and it gets numb, unable to function, but I believe it is there.

Good post.

To me, religion is outdated. If God does exist, why the positive connotations? Out thoughts of a higher being are all surrounded by this thought that God, if exists, is some sort of saint. Does a creator necessarily have to be 'God Like' in the sense that we've become accustomed to? Or could he be a bored diety, and our creation is the result of his boredom?

Fact is, we are all animals. Advanced animals, civilized animals yes. But in the end, just another animal. With that said, morality sounds like it's a creation of the mind rather then something built within us.

I think in some societies that may be partially true....and the result of that kind of belief in any society has always turned out to be pretty horrendous.

However is seems that most true Christian societies have a distinct tendency to be peaceful and very productive in nature.

I would think that anyone who thinks religion and the rules that some of the best of them teach us are just some boring concept that we don't really need in our lives. History I think proves this belief to be very much unfounded.

The lack of belief in a higher power has in almost every case led to a relaxation of morals and led to a morass in productivity as well. Core values and beliefs are essential in any peaceful society.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

Insofar as you cannot empirically prove it one way or another, any answer would have to be "faith-based", aka what the responder happens to believe on the subject.

Here's my question. How is one supposed to "take God out of the picture" on this question if one believes that all humans are built with a sense of morality by God? Are you trying to say, "You religious people butt out, I only want to hear from atheists"?

 

[Cecilie1200]

You know religion used to require human sacrifice right?

Some did. Some didn't. So what?