*There *Is*, And *Never *, Was A Palestine*

Discussion in 'Iran' started by chesswarsnow, Oct 2, 2011.

  1. chesswarsnow
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    chesswarsnow "SASQUATCH IS WATCHING"

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    Sorry bout that,



    1. Now look we all know where the arabs in Israel came from, lets be men.
    2. They came from Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and surrounding *hell holes*.
    3. We know this, lets stop *all* the bullshit.
    4. There was never a *home land* for arabs in Israel.
    5. Never a working government, never a form of currency, never a heritage.
    6. Just a bunch of arabs showed up to stake claims on Israel, when the Jews came back home in 1948.
    7. This too shall pass, not to worry people of Israel.
    8. Link:Hamas: 'Resistance' against Israel is only option left for Palestinians - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News


    ""The Palestinian people do not beg the world for a state, and the state can't be created through decisions and initiatives," Haniyeh said. "States liberate their land first and then the political body can be established."



    9. And why don't they, because they know Israel will end up running them into the seas.
    10. Some stupid cleric in Iran thinks he has something to do with Israel, bring it Iran, and watch your whole country go up in fucking smoke you stupid bastards!:eusa_hand:



    Regards,
    SirJamesofTexas
     
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  2. pgm
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    pgm Member

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    There was a Palestinian mandate. It was confirmed on July 24, 1922 and came into effect on September 26, 1923.

    There was no Palestine under Ottoman rule. The people who came to identify themselves as Palestinians were split under a few different regions (and these kept changing). Not that that mattered to the people who lived there. It's the land of their grandfather's homes.

    1, 2 & 3) Some came from Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt. Others descended from the people who always lived there. Genetically, they're much closer to the Jewish people than any other Arab group. Among the Arabs, they are the most similar genetically and culturally to the other Levantine Arabs (the Lebanese and Syrians to a lesser extent).
    4) What does this mean? There were certainly Arabs living in Israel before and after the Jewish people started immigrating in large numbers.
    5) Government, no. Currency, no. Heritage, depends what you mean. There was a cultural heritage.
    6) The Jews arrived way before 1948 and there was lots of fighting with the Arabs from the beginning.
    7) Why is this a numbered list? These aren't separate points.
    8) Hamas certainly appeals to a segment of the Palestinians who are frustrated with mainstream Palestinian leadership. Creating a Palestinian state can help take away some of the more moderate Palestinians who could be tempted to support Hamas.
    9) Yes, Israel would.
    10) Are you talking about Khomeini?

    Take care,

    Pgm
     
  3. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    What's in a name?

    A battlefield by any other name would be as bloody.
     
  4. pgm
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    pgm Member

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    Well, that's certainly true.
     
  5. JStone
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    JStone BANNED

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    No.

    Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
    There were Arabs living in Israel....2000 years after Jews settled in Israel. Thus, the country has been known by the Hebrew name Israel since 3000 years ago.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2011
  6. pgm
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    pgm Member

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    Jordan, yes. Saudi Arabia, not so much.

    There's not a whole lot separating the Arabs of South Lebanon from Palestine (at least not in a way that would unite them as Palestine). Really, the most unifying thing is the displacement from Israel in 1948. Their dialect of Arabic is pretty similar to the Lebanese and, like that of the Iraqis and Syrians, is influenced by Aramaic. If one would split the Arab world into more accurate countries, the Arabian peninsula would be separate, Iraq would be separate, Egypt would be separate and Syria, Palestine, Lebanon and Jordan could be argued as one. There are definite differences between them, though, and if any one of them is a made-up country, it is Jordan, not Palestine.

    Another link:
    http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

    [​IMG]

    Sar being Saudi Arabia, obviously. The Druze are Arabs of Lebanon, but not Muslim. The triangle for Yemen are the Yemeni Jews. The rest seems obvious.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  7. chesswarsnow
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    chesswarsnow "SASQUATCH IS WATCHING"

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    Sorry bout that,



    1. PGM pretty much shut the door on any debate.:eusa_hand:
    2. Nice going.:clap2:



    Regards,
    SirJamesofTexas
     
  8. editec
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    editec Mr. Forgot-it-All

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    Oh my goodness, how many times are we going to have this silly argument?

    People will simply show you example after example of the term Paletine being used over the last 2000 years or so and you will ignore it.

    What's even more annoying is that the fact that some people in antiquity called that area Palestine is entirely irrelvant to the issue of modern Israel, and the Arabs who live there now.
     
  9. JStone
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    JStone BANNED

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    Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis...
    Cambridge University Press
    Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris
    Pulitzer Prize-Winning Writer Charles Krauthammer...
    Tel Dan Stele Verifying King David Dynasty 3000 years ago
    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/pos...n-Stela-and-the-Kings-of-Aram-and-Israel.aspx

    Judaea Capta Coins Minted By Romans against Jews 2000 years ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaea_Capta_coinage

    Jewish Dead Sea Scrolls 2000 years old.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

    Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2011
  10. pgm
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    Bernard Lewis is mostly correct. The defining characteristic of the "Palestinians" before they were called Palestinians was that they were the Arabs of the Holy Land. The borders weren't what they are now (the Ottomans had them as South Syria). But their connection was to the land, not to a name.

    There are a couple ideas about when a singular Palestinian identity emerged (as opposed to an Arab/Muslim identity). Some say it was in the 17th Century. A more definitive moment would be the riots of the 1830s. There is no question that the term "Palestinian" was being used in the 1910s.

    Is it comparatively new? Of course. But so is nationalism. So is the idea of self-determination. I would even go as far as to say Palestinian nationalism is newer than Zionism. But there is still a Palestinian identity. No other Arab state prioritizes the interests of the Palestinians. Not the Egyptians or Syrians, who try to use Palestinians as a political tool. Not the Jordanians, who treated the Palestinians as 2nd class citizens and were more concerned about territorial expansion into the West Bank than preserving Palestinian homes.

    Guy Milliere is completely wrong. As I explained, the term Palestinian was used to refer to the Arab people living there at the turn of the 20th Century. Second, Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq did not invade until 1948, after there had been fighting for nearly a year (fighting that left the Arab population largely displaced). Finally, Jordan did not invade with any intention of snuffing out Israel. It invaded because it wanted to take the Arab Partition of Palestine and incorporate it into its own territory.

    As for Krauthammer, we don't usually agree, but what he says is fairly innocuous. I would offer China as an example of 3000 years of one people, country, name, language and religion (depending on the part of China).
     

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