*There *Is*, And *Never *, Was A Palestine*

I don't even know what this debate is. You keep moving the goalposts. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, it is a convenient reference.

Anyway, you asked where Palestine is in the Heberew Bible:
Isaiah 14:29 - Don't rejoice, O Peleshet, all of you, because the rod that struck you is broken; for out of the serpent's root shall come forth an adder, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
Psalm 108:9 - Mo'av is my wash pot. I will toss my sandal on Edom. I will shout over Peleshet."
Exodus 15:14 - The peoples have heard. They tremble. Pangs have taken hold on the inhabitants of Peleshet.
Joel 3:4 - "Yes, and what are you to me, Tzor, and Tzidon, And all the regions of Peleshet? Will you repay me? And if you repay me, I will swiftly and speedily return your repayment on your own head.

The Romans created the state of Syria Palestinia as an insult the Jews, but they didn't invent the name out of whole cloth.

Anyway, I'm going to regret posting this because it won't convince you of a damn thing. Plus, you'll probably repost a fucking Bernard Lewis quote.
 
Back when the OTTOMANs owned most of the land in Palestine, and the Arabs who lived there (remember that arabs are not Turkics!) was probably when those Arabs (mostly rentors of the land owed by wealth turks) started thinking of themselves as uniquely Palestinians.

Of course a century ago, they were referring to themselves as inhabitants of a place (not a nation) called Palestine.

But this constant debate about whether the name Palestine is new, is silly.

History is replete with references to that place called Palestine.

It didn't actually refer to Israel specifically, but included areas in Lebanon, and likely Syria, too.

It was a REGION, not a nation.

The Romans thought of it that way.
 
Back when the OTTOMANs owned most of the land in Palestine, and the Arabs who lived there (remember that arabs are not Turkics!) was probably when those Arabs (mostly rentors of the land owed by wealth turks) started thinking of themselves as uniquely Palestinians.

Of course a century ago, they were referring to themselves as inhabitants of a place (not a nation) called Palestine.

But this constant debate about whether the name Palestine is new, is silly.

History is replete with references to that place called Palestine.

It didn't actually refer to Israel specifically, but included areas in Lebanon, and likely Syria, too.

It was a REGION, not a nation.

The Romans thought of it that way.

The Romans, foreign occupiers, thought of the land as Judaea, Latin for the Hebrew Judah, from which Jew is derived.
Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The name of the land was Israel and Judah, not Palestine.

Historian Bernard Lewis...
The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

Palestine never existed during the Ottoman Empire.

Cambridge University Press
In Ottoman times, no political entity called Palestine existed. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of the First World War, European boundary makers began to take greater interest in defining territorial limits for Palestine. Only since the 1920s has Palestine had formally delimited boundaries, though these have remained subject to repeated change and a source of bitter dispute.
Palestine Boundaries 1833–1947 - Cambridge Archive Editions

Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire...
Palestine did not exist in the geographical imagination of the Ottomans...[Before modern Israel], Jews referred to the territory as Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. Throughout the Ottoman period, pilgrims and clergy from both religious traditions visited what they considered the "Holy Land" following a route from the port of Jaffa to Jerusalem.

Palestinians are a recent invention.

Bernard Lewis...
The Palestinian Arabs' basic sense of corporate historic identity was, at different levels, Muslim or Arab or -- for some -- Syrian; it is significant that even by the end of the Mandate in 1948, after 30 years of separate Palestinian political existence, there were virtually no books in Arabic on the history of Palestine.
 
History is replete with references to that place called Palestine.

References to Palestine in Hebrew Bible: Zero :lol:

References to Palestine in Christian Bible: Zero :lol:

References to Israel in Bible: 2000 times :lol:

References to Palestine in Quran: Zero :lol:

References to Palestine in Zoroastrian Avesta: Zero :lol:

References to Palestine in the Septuagint, Greek translation of Hebrew Bible: Zero :lol:

References to Palestine in ancient documents: Zero :lol:

References to Palestine in archaeological artifacts: Zero :lol:

Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis... :lol:
The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]
 
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The arabs believe in the existence of Palestine the way mexicans belive in the existence of Aztlan. Neither ever existed.
 
References to Palestine in Hebrew Bible: Zero :lol:

You're off by about 250.

References to Palestine in ancient documents: Zero :lol:

And just wrong here.

Wait, what am I doing? There's no point of trying to convince you otherwise. The only way you have a point is if you mean that the word "Palestine" was used and spelled this way. In that case, you'd be right. But the Palestinians don't use the word Palestine, they use Filastin.
 
References to Palestine in Hebrew Bible: Zero :lol:

You're off by about 250.

References to Palestine in Bible: Zero.:lol:

References to Israel in Bible: 2000:lol:

Exodus 34:27: Then the LORD said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”


References to Palestine in ancient documents: Zero :lol:

And just wrong here.

References to Palestine in ancient documents: Zero. :lol:
 
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The Palestinians call themselves Filistini in Arabic. Is there no mention of Philistine in the Bible? פלשת (Paleshet) is mentioned over 250 times in the Bible and translated as either Philistine or Palestine. So, it is mentioned in the Bible and you're just wrong.

Here, go look BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: philis*

Your repetition proves you have no argument or evidence.
 
Sorry bout that,



1. Arabs have hitched their wagon to a term brought on by some gentiles.:clap2:
2. The Romans.:eusa_eh:
3. And they think that *no one* will notice.:lol:
4. How fucking lame is that?:eusa_hand:



Regards,
SirJamesofTexas
 
The Palestinians call themselves Filistini in Arabic.

LOL, there is no letter "p" in Arabic. Filastin is just the Arabic pronunciation of Palestine.

Palestine is an English word. :lol:

Is there no mention of Philistine in the Bible? פלשת (Paleshet) is mentioned over 250 times in the Bible and translated as either Philistine or Palestine. So, it is mentioned in the Bible and you're just wrong.

The Philistines were Greek, from the Aegean and Mediterranean Seas, thus, known as the Sea Peoples.

The Palestinians are Arabs from the Arabian desert :lol:

Every Bible translates Peleshet as "Philistia," land of the Philistines, NOT Palestine. Palestine never appears in the Bible

You're so uneducated, it's not even funny, but, I still laugh at you :lol:

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
 
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The word Palestine comes from the Latin Palaestina, which comes from the Greek Παλαιστίνη (Palestini), which is what the Greeks called Philistine. The Arabic Filastin comes from the Byzantine's name for the region that they took when the Arabs conquered it. They used the local name, just like they did in Syria.

The Palestinians are Arab in culture and language, but genetically, they're a mixed bag and for the most part they are not descended from people from Arabia. There just weren't enough conquerors.

I thought of another people who call themselves by a name not native to their language. The Americans.
 
The word Palestine comes from the Latin Palaestina, which comes from the Greek Παλαιστίνη (Palestini), which is what the Greeks called Philistine. The Arabic Filastin comes from the Byzantine's name for the region that they took when the Arabs conquered it. They used the local name, just like they did in Syria.

The Romans called Israel "Judaea" for the Hebrew Judah that dates back 3000 years. Jew derives from Judah.

The Judaea Capta coins minted by the Romans: Judaea Capta coinage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Romans renamed Judaea/Judah "Palestina" in retribution for the Jewish rebellions. The Romans were foreign occupiers. The Jews called their land Israel 500 years before Rome and Romans even existed.

You're not the brightest bulb.
 
The Palestinians are Arab in culture and language, but genetically, they're a mixed bag and for the most part they are not descended from people from Arabia. There just weren't enough conquerors.

You just made that up :lol:

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
 
The Palestinians are Arab in culture and language, but genetically, they're a mixed bag and for the most part they are not descended from people from Arabia. There just weren't enough conquerors.

You just made that up :lol:

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...
There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.

Your appeals to authority not withstanding, I believe I addressed this already in my 2nd post.

I also want to address something from another thread:

I was referring to you saying the Palestinian homeland was Arabia.

Read, learn, dink.

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

Again, how can something be the homeland if they have never been there? Is my homeland Italy?

What about the Jewish Arabs? Are they from Arabia? The Christian ones?

"Arab" is a socio-lingual term the way it is used in the 21st Century. There is not one nation that stretches from Morocco to Yemen.
 
The Palestinians are Arab in culture and language, but genetically, they're a mixed bag and for the most part they are not descended from people from Arabia. There just weren't enough conquerors.

You just made that up :lol:

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...


Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...

Your appeals to authority not withstanding, I believe I addressed this already in my 2nd post.

I also want to address something from another thread:

Read, learn, dink.

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...

Again, how can something be the homeland if they have never been there? Is my homeland Italy?

What about the Jewish Arabs? Are they from Arabia? The Christian ones?

"Arab" is a socio-lingual term the way it is used in the 21st Century. There is not one nation that stretches from Morocco to Yemen.

Repeated for the mentally challenged...

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...
The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are madewithout any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.

Dr. Eric H. Cline, a former Fulbright scholar, is an award-winning author, teacher, and advisor with degrees in Classical Archaeology, Near Eastern Archaeology, and Ancient History from Dartmouth College (1982), Yale University (1984), and the University of Pennsylvania (1991) respectively. He currently serves as Chair of the department, with a joint appointment in the Anthropology department and additional courtesy appointments in the History department and the Judaic Studies Program. He is also the advisor for the undergraduate majors in Archaeology and, for his efforts on their behalf, was awarded the GWU 2006 “Award for Excellence in Undergraduate Departmental Advising.”

Prior to his arrival at The George Washington University in September 2000, Dr. Cline taught at Stanford, Xavier, the University of Cincinnati, and CSU Fresno. Nominated several times for teaching awards, he received the “Morton Bender Award for Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching” at The George Washington University in 2004 and the Archaeological Institute of America’s National “Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching” Award for 2005. He currently teaches a wide variety of courses, including History of Ancient Greece, History of Rome, History of Egypt and the Ancient Near East, History of Ancient Israel, Introduction to Archaeology, Archaeology of Israel and Neighboring Lands, Art and Archaeology of the Aegean Bronze Age, the Rise of Old World Cities and States, Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, and various smaller Honors and Freshmen Seminars on topics such as History and Homer, Troy and the Trojan War, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Archaeology, Politics, and Nationalism.

Dr. Cline’s primary fields of study are the military history of the Mediterranean world from antiquity to present and the international connections between Greece, Egypt, and the Near East during the Late Bronze Age (1700-1100 BCE). He is an experienced field archaeologist, with 28 seasons of excavation and survey to his credit since 1980. He has worked in Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Cyprus, Greece, Crete, and the United States, including eight seasons at the site of Megiddo (biblical Armageddon) in Israel, where he is currently the Associate Director (USA). He is also Co-Director of the new series of archaeological excavations at the site of Tel Kabri, also located in Israel.

A prolific researcher and author with ten books and nearly 100 articles to his credit, Dr. Cline is perhaps best known for his book, The Battles of Armageddon: Megiddo and the Jezreel Valley from the Bronze Age to the Nuclear Age (Ann Arbor 2000; paperback 2002), which received the 2001 Biblical Archaeology Society (BAS) Publication Award for “Best Popular Book on Archaeology,” was a Main Selection of the Natural Science Book Club, sold out its first printing in less than four months, and has now been translated and published into Croatian (2005). The subsequent book, entitled Jerusalem Besieged: From Ancient Canaan to Modern Israel, was published by the University of Michigan Press in October 2004 (paperback 2005). It was a Main Selection of the Discovery Channel Book Club in November 2004, was featured as a USA Today 'Books for Your Brain' Selection in December 2004, and was selected by the AAUP for Public and Secondary School Libraries in June 2005. His next book, entitled From Eden to Exile: Unraveling Mysteries of the Bible, was published by the National Geographic Society in June 2007, selling out its first print run even before the official release date. It was subsequently released in paperback in June 2008 and received the 2009 Biblical Archaeology Society (BAS) Publication Award for “Best Popular Book on Archaeology.” His most recent books are Biblical Archaeology: A Very Short Introduction, published by Oxford University Press in October 2009, and an edited volume, entitled The Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean, published by Oxford University Press in May 2010.

He is also the author of Sailing the Wine-Dark Sea: International Trade and the Late Bronze Age Aegean (Oxford 1994, republished 2009) and the co-editor of Amenhotep III: Perspectives on his Reign (Ann Arbor 1998; paperback 2001); The Aegean and the Orient in the Second Millennium BC (Liège 1998); and Thutmose III: A New Biography (Ann Arbor 2006), and is the co-author (with Jill Rubalcaba) of a book for young adults entitled The Ancient Egyptian World, published by Oxford University Press (New York 2005). He is currently writing and/or editing several additional books, including Ramesses III: The Life and Times of Egypt's Last Hero (University of Michigan Press). In addition, he has recorded three courses on CD-ROM and cassette for Modern Scholar/Recorded Books: A History of Ancient Israel: From the Patriarchs Through the Romans (March 2007), A History of Ancient Greece: From the Bronze Age through the Hellenistic Age (March 2007), and Archaeology and the Iliad: The Trojan War in Homer and History (January 2006).

Dr. Cline has presented more than 200 scholarly and public lectures and presentations on his work over the past decade, including at the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC, the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, and the Skirball Museum in Los Angeles. His research has been featured in the Washington Post, the New York Times, US News & World Report, USA Today, National Geographic News, CNN, the London Daily Telegraph, the London Mirror, the Brisbane Courier-Mail, the Cincinnati Enquirer, the Cincinnati Post, and the Associated Press, with all of those articles subsequently reproduced in numerous other periodicals within the United States and abroad. His books have been reviewed in the Times Literary Supplement, the Times Higher Education Supplement, the Jerusalem Post, the Cincinnati Enquirer, the History News Network, Jewish Book World, and many professional journals, while his publications overall have been cited over 2,100 times in more than 400 scholarly books and articles since 1987.

Dr. Cline has been interviewed by syndicated national and international television and radio hosts including Robin Roberts and George Stephanopoulos on ABC's "Good Morning America," Bill Hemmer and Martha MacCallum on Fox New Channel's "America's Newsroom," Fergus Nicoll on the BBC World Service/The World Today, Kojo Nnamdi on NPR’s “Public Interest” show, Michael Dresser on “The Michael Dresser” show, and Richard Sheehe on WRGW. His documentary television appearances to date include featured roles as an expert in Joshua and the Walls of Jericho (Discovery Channel, 2003), Revelation: The End of the World? (Discovery Channel, 2004), The Truth of Troy (BBC2, 2004), Beyond the Movie: Conquering Troy (National Geographic Channel, 2004), Secrets of the Aegean Apocalypse/Mystery of the Sea Peoples (History Channel, 2004), Countdown to Armageddon (History Channel, 2004), Is It Real: Atlantis (National Geographic Channel, 2006), Jerusalem: Center of the World (WETA/PBS, 2009), and Biblical Plagues (National Geographic Channel, 2010). He has also both appeared in, and served as a consultant for, numerous shows in the National Geographic Channel’s “Science of the Bible” series, including Exodus Revealed, Lost Cities, Ark of the Covenant, Secrets of Revelation, The Search for Noah’s Ark, Lost Kings of the Bible (David and Solomon), and The Dead Sea Scrolls (National Geographic Channel, March 2006 – April 2007).

In addition to his other responsibilities, Dr. Cline serves the American Schools of Oriental Research (ASOR) as an elected member of the Board of Trustees, and has previously served as Vice-President and member of the Executive Committee, the Nominating Committee, and the Committee on Archaeology Policy; Chair of the Annual Meetings and Program Committee (CAMP), a member of the Personnel Committee and the Program Committee, and an ex-officio member of the Executive, Program, Outreach, Lectures, Honors/Awards, Regional Societies, Implementation and Strategic Planning, Development, and Unprovenanced Texts Committees. He has also served as an elected Society Trustee of the Archaeological Institute of America (AIA) and currently serves on the Excellence in Undergraduate Teaching Award Selection Committee for the AIA.

GW | Eric H. Cline
 

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