then and now

Discussion in 'Environment' started by Old Rocks, Apr 14, 2011.

  1. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/global_warming/fact-from-fiction.pdf

    Misleading:CO2Has Been Much Higher in the Past and It Was Colder
    •440 million years ago CO2is estimated to be about 1200 ppm with large glaciation
    •Today values = 390 ppm
    •However, the sun was 4% weaker 440 million years ago!
    •To overcome the weaker sun, CO2values would need to be around 3000 ppm to prevent ice!
     
  2. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    Speaking of then and now...


    Then....
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    Now why am I not surprised that you believe Time to be a peer reviewed scientific journal?

    http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/global_warming/fact-from-fiction.pdf

    Page 28

    Fiction:Ice Age Predicted in the 1970s
    Claim: Scientists were predicting a coming ice age inthe 1970s so how can we trust them now?

    •The “coming ice age” was mostly a story portrayed by the media –NOT scientists!
    •Cooling between 1940-1970 due to global dimming by air pollution –and still occurring today!
     
  4. Oddball
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    Oddball BANNED Supporting Member

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    PFFFFT!

    In the wake of the CRU/UCAR/NCAR/IPCC chicanery, "peer review" is a dead letter.
     
  5. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    LOL. In other words, Oddie, you going to stay happily willfully ignorant. Them thar librul pointy headed intellectual scientists ain't got nuttin' to teach you. How the hell do people like you survive in our society? Oh yeah, forgot. Welfare.
     
  6. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    Old Rocks brings up a very good point. The sun has a much higher output now than a billion years ago. Yet the earth had liquid water then. If the water cycle was the thermostat then it is surely the thermostat now. Climate models are weak at describing heat transport by water and choose to focus on CO2 because it is much simpler. But the total percentage of CO2 effect is far smaller than the error bars of water effect. It is like trying to balance the federal budget by cracking down on welfare cheats but ignoring health care costs, you may get public support but it doesnt get results.
     
  7. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    That is not what scientists are stating.
     
  8. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    NOAA GISS is stating that. Just not the department under Hansen's control.

    Not unlike the NOAA study that found the Urban Heat Island Effect to be orders of magnitude higher than Hansen and Jones say it is.
     
  9. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    NOAA GISS is stating that. Just not the department under Hansen's control.

    Not unlike the NOAA study that found the Urban Heat Island Effect to be orders of magnitude higher than Hansen and Jones say it is.
     
  10. Old Rocks
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    Old Rocks Diamond Member

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    And the prelimnary studies by the Berkeley Group found it to be non-existant.

    Exclusive: Berkeley temperature study results

    So it looked to several climate scientists that I have spoken to that the BEST effort was stacked with confusionists and funded by deniers in order to push a dubious message and advance Muller’s for-profit consulting business.

    The problem for Muller, however, was that there’s really no way to turn the surface temperature data into something that it isn’t. Even hard-core deniers haven’t been able to put a dent into it:

    Must-read NOAA paper — Q: “Is there any question that surface temperatures in the United States have been rising rapidly during the last 50 years?” A: “None at all.
    Watts not to love: New study finds the poor weather stations tend to have a slight COOL bias, not a warm one“
    “New analysis released today has shown the global temperature rise calculated by the Met Office’s HadCRUT record is at the lower end of likely warming.“
    And BEST isn’t run by hard-core deniers, the kind who don’t have any professional scientific reputation and hence can just make crap up.

    So it’s no surprise at all that, as Caldeira reported to me, “Their results confirm the reality of global warming and support in all essential respects the historical temperature analyses of the NOAA, NASA, and HadCRU.”
     

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