The Will of the People: question for Republicans and Tea Partiers

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Coyote, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

    In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


    Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?
     
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  2. MIPS
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    MIPS Active Member

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    Here's one poll for you regarding the "public option"

    Toplines - Health Care - July 14-15, 2009 - Rasmussen Reports

    See Question #2

    And if it was so damn popular why was it the first thing jettisoned by the Senate and the President? Most Americans realize that the last thing we need is another competition destroying, bottomless government money pit like Medicare has become.

    Medicare long term unfunded liabilities currently stand at nearly $73.3 TRILLION who would be foolish enough to think that we can afford to duplicate this insanity?

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
     
  3. California Girl
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    California Girl BANNED

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    If someone can show me the part of the US Constitution that grants power to congress to legislate a public option for healthcare, fine. But it ain't in there.
     
  4. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Yet, look at these polls:

    This was a GoP poll (June 2009)


    New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
    New Poll: Public Option Up ? GOP Down - George's Bottom Line
    New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
    Poll: Public Option Way More Popular Than Senate Health Care Propsal | The Plum Line

    Rasmussan seems out of step.


    Who says it has to be set up like Medicare?

    Either way though - we're talking about what people want and who is or is not listening to them.
     
  5. MIPS
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    MIPS Active Member

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    Well since the government already provides "coverage for those who can't afford it" (via Medicaid) that just leaves the 35% of lackwits that are oblivious to the governments track record.

    From the article in that link
    Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan

    SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

    Bing....

    Doesn't even show what question(s) were asked to generate these numbers (the one I linked DOES).

    Bang ....
    Same as your first link, you linked it twice

    Bop....

    This one doesn't even say what poll it's sighting let alone the details of the questions asked to derive the data.

    Bam ...

    Really? Go back and take another look there's NO AMBIGUITY as to the question that was asked since it's right there in the link I gave you.

    What makes you trust the government enough to think that it won't end up in the same boat because it certainly can't be the governments TRACK RECORD, in case it's escaped your notice it's government that has caused the majority of the problems that it's supposedly trying to address in the current health care system which is rather convenient for the political elites and the special interests don't you think?

    The people are shouting loud and clear what they want, they don't want the government is currently trying to force down there throats, whether you choose to listen to them or not is up to you but the politicians in Washington had better listen.
     
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  6. Maple
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    Maple Senior Member

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    Did you happen to see what happened yesterday in Massachusetts??? A state that is the most liberal in the nation elected a republican because he campaigned on a message of STOPPING Obama care. The people DO NOT WANT IT.

    We do want health care reform but that can be done with tort reform, opening up competition between the states, promoting HSA's with pre-tax dollars, promoting high deductible inexpensive catastrophic plans, allow small business to group, legislate for pre-existing conditions and for portability. Subsidize the poor- which we already do and it's called Medicaid. There's the fix and it could probably be written up in a 20 page bill instead of a 2,000 page bill from the congress and a 2,500 page bill from the senate.
     
  7. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Irrelevant. We're talking about listening to the people. What the people want. That particular poll shows support for a public option from a majority.

    We are talking about "choice" - the word is public option - not public mandate and not one-payer system. Therefore using the word in the poll is accurate. How else would you word it to let people know that it is a choice? But, if the wording bothers you, here's a poll with a question worded similar to Rassmussen:

    Q. Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat? The results still show strong support for a public option.​


    Compare the question from Rassmussen:

    Would it be a good idea to set up a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurance companies? Yes No Not Sure

    Or…Bling….

    And Rasmussen is a well known right-leaning polling organization. So what?

    The questions are in the link I give above.

    *blip*

    Apologies.


    Yes it does….click on the link in the second sentence.

    *blip*

    Again, what makes you think it has to be set up like Medicare? There’s a whole lot of public, private and public/private blends of health care models out there to choose from. If you want to talk about track record, don’t forget the VA system. That is government run also.

    The data doesn’t seem to support you. The people seem to be shouting that they want a public option and no one is listening. You haven’t disproven that . Your only source is a Rasmussen poll and Rasmussen is well known to lean to the right.

    Here is a poll from Pew: Mixed Views of Economic Policies and Health Care Reform Persist: Section 2: Opinions of Health Care Proposals - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

    [​IMG]

    That shows an increase in support for a public option from July to Oct 2009.
     
  8. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    Wrong - they don't want that particular bill (from which the public option has been dropped) but take note -health care wasn't the sole focus of his campaign. Ironically - the Republicans shouldn't assume it's a mandate against Obama. They still rated Obama quite favorably. It is a wake up call though.

    All of those are good, but most polls consistently show majority support for a public option. Why aren't the advocates for "the people" listening to "the people"?
     
  9. Oldandtired
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    Oldandtired BANNED

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    Please tell me how a minority without the option of the fillibuster was able to prevent a bill with a public option.
    Please tell me how they were able to prevent any legislation?
     
  10. Coyote
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    Coyote Varmint Staff Member Senior USMB Moderator Gold Supporting Member

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    That is not the point of this thread.

    The point is there are groups of people claiming to be listening "to the people". If that is the case why is there no public option or sustained fight for it beyond liberals? (note - not all Dems are liberals).

    Why are the Tea Partiers (the loudest self-proclaimed voice of "the people") not agitating for it? The Republicans?
     

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