The Will of the People: question for Republicans and Tea Partiers

[Coyote]

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

Actually, Obama is the one who FAILED. I am just a private citizen with an opinion and a keyboard. I didn't have a rubber stamp Congress with a filibuster proof majority and a full year to pass my healthcare reform agenda. If I did, I'd have gotten the job done!! Obama had all that, AND he enjoyed incredible 70%+ popularity and plenty of goodwill!!! What did he get done? Nothing. It is one year later we have NADA ZIP ZILCH to show for it. He is a failure. Direct your anger towards him, he is the problem. A real leader would have taken ownership of the agenda and sold the program. There was nothing stopping him except his own failure to lead. Obama is not a leader, he is a candidate. A professional cheerleader that knows next to nothing about being an executive. You cannot blame the Republicans for the failure of Obama.

This isn't about failure nor is it about blame nor is it about Obama. I have no anger. Only a simple question that has yet to be answered. Your anti-Obama rant is a nice deflection though

 

[Coyote]

We had a poll Tuesday. Voters said "FUCK YOU" to ObamaCare. That is the only poll that matters.

If you want to be accurate, the election wasn't so much a "referendum on ObamaCare" - it was about local concerns and big government (Dems in this case) not listening too them - unemployment and economy. Aside from that - as I've said repeatedly - I'm not talking about the health care bill here.

I am asking one question: since the majority of "the people" want a public option, why aren't those who claim to be the voice of majority of "the people" clamoring for a public option?

PS- There was a "public option" in the House bill.

That's nice, but - does not answer my question.

 

[Zander]

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

Actually, Obama is the one who FAILED. I am just a private citizen with an opinion and a keyboard. I didn't have a rubber stamp Congress with a filibuster proof majority and a full year to pass my healthcare reform agenda. If I did, I'd have gotten the job done!! Obama had all that, AND he enjoyed incredible 70%+ popularity and plenty of goodwill!!! What did he get done? Nothing. It is one year later we have NADA ZIP ZILCH to show for it. He is a failure. Direct your anger towards him, he is the problem. A real leader would have taken ownership of the agenda and sold the program. There was nothing stopping him except his own failure to lead. Obama is not a leader, he is a candidate. A professional cheerleader that knows next to nothing about being an executive. You cannot blame the Republicans for the failure of Obama.

This isn't about failure nor is it about blame nor is it about Obama. I have no anger. Only a simple question that has yet to be answered. Your anti-Obama rant is a nice deflection though

Fair enough. You are doing some deflecting yourself. Voters in Massachusetts took a poll on Tuesday. The candidate that won promised to KILL OBAMACARE. Obamacare had a public option.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The House version of the healthcare bill has the public option in it. The House comes closest, of all institutions in our government, of representing the will of the people.

 

[Coyote]

post these famous polls and let's see the wording and the answers.

Already done.

 

[Zander]

We had a poll Tuesday. Voters said "FUCK YOU" to ObamaCare. That is the only poll that matters.

If you want to be accurate, the election wasn't so much a "referendum on ObamaCare" - it was about local concerns and big government (Dems in this case) not listening too them - unemployment and economy. Aside from that - as I've said repeatedly - I'm not talking about the health care bill here.

I am asking one question: since the majority of "the people" want a public option, why aren't those who claim to be the voice of majority of "the people" clamoring for a public option?

PS- There was a "public option" in the House bill.

That's nice, but - does not answer my question.

Your question can't be answered because it is based on a faulty premise. Opinion polls are not FACTS. Most people don't even know what the "public option" means.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/08/poll-most-dont-know-what-public-option.html

 

[Coyote]

Actually, Obama is the one who FAILED. I am just a private citizen with an opinion and a keyboard. I didn't have a rubber stamp Congress with a filibuster proof majority and a full year to pass my healthcare reform agenda. If I did, I'd have gotten the job done!! Obama had all that, AND he enjoyed incredible 70%+ popularity and plenty of goodwill!!! What did he get done? Nothing. It is one year later we have NADA ZIP ZILCH to show for it. He is a failure. Direct your anger towards him, he is the problem. A real leader would have taken ownership of the agenda and sold the program. There was nothing stopping him except his own failure to lead. Obama is not a leader, he is a candidate. A professional cheerleader that knows next to nothing about being an executive. You cannot blame the Republicans for the failure of Obama.

This isn't about failure nor is it about blame nor is it about Obama. I have no anger. Only a simple question that has yet to be answered. Your anti-Obama rant is a nice deflection though

Fair enough. You are doing some deflecting yourself. Voters in Massachusetts took a poll on Tuesday. The candidate that won promised to KILL OBAMACARE. Obamacare had a public option.

No...I'm not deflecting...I'm being very very specific and refusing to go off on tangents

But - I'll walk down the tangent on this one.

There is a public option in one of the bills but Obama has already indicated - numerous times, he will let that go in order to get a healthcare bill passed. Therefore "Obamacare" is highly unlikely to contain the public option. It could easily be said that if that election was a poll on Obamacare - then it could also be a reaction against the public option being removed. When it was becoming clear that the public option was likely to be lost - support for the bill dropped noticeably (among liberals) and MA is predominately liberal.

The bill is chock full of crap and some of the most important things got dropped or deferred. There is much I don't like in it - at no point have I been arguing here in support of the healthcare bill - despite the attempts of others to turn it into that.

Healthcare reform - in general - has wide public support
The inclusion of a some form of public option has a majority public support. And it is that support that is ignored.

 

[Coyote]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

For a year until last night the Democrats held the WH and had a super majority,fillibuster
proof in Congress....Why didn't you guys pass the bill ?....If this was such a great deal and it was so important why didn't you pass it?...

Quick answer...It's a steaming pile of dog poo and you want to drag the GOP down with you when the American people finally wake up to what they put into the WH.

The tide is turning,keep making fun of tea party people,the GOP and anyone else you feel so superior to. Just a few months ago you guys acted like the GOP would be dead. Then
you lost in Virginia,New Jersey and now the Holy Land of the Democrat Party, Mass. Just look how quickly things have turned around.

Once again, yet another poster is incapable of reading and responding to the OP.

Keep trying - I'm sure you'll get it eventually

 

[Zander]

This isn't about failure nor is it about blame nor is it about Obama. I have no anger. Only a simple question that has yet to be answered. Your anti-Obama rant is a nice deflection though

Fair enough. You are doing some deflecting yourself. Voters in Massachusetts took a poll on Tuesday. The candidate that won promised to KILL OBAMACARE. Obamacare had a public option.

No...I'm not deflecting...I'm being very very specific and refusing to go off on tangents

But - I'll walk down the tangent on this one.

There is a public option in one of the bills but Obama has already indicated - numerous times, he will let that go in order to get a healthcare bill passed. Therefore "Obamacare" is highly unlikely to contain the public option. It could easily be said that if that election was a poll on Obamacare - then it could also be a reaction against the public option being removed. When it was becoming clear that the public option was likely to be lost - support for the bill dropped noticeably (among liberals) and MA is predominately liberal.

The bill is chock full of crap and some of the most important things got dropped or deferred. There is much I don't like in it - at no point have I been arguing here in support of the healthcare bill - despite the attempts of others to turn it into that.

Healthcare reform - in general - has wide public support
The inclusion of a some form of public option has a majority public support. And it is that support that is ignored.

I hear what you are saying, but it just ain't so. Voters don't know what a "public option" is. The language is too vague and nebulous. Get specific and define exactly what a public option really is - and watch voters say "no thanks".

 

[MIPS]

Get specific and define exactly what a public option really is - and watch voters say "no thanks".

And while you're at it, remind them that they HAVE TO PAY FOR IT too.

 

[Coyote]

We had a poll Tuesday. Voters said "FUCK YOU" to ObamaCare. That is the only poll that matters.

If you want to be accurate, the election wasn't so much a "referendum on ObamaCare" - it was about local concerns and big government (Dems in this case) not listening too them - unemployment and economy. Aside from that - as I've said repeatedly - I'm not talking about the health care bill here.

I am asking one question: since the majority of "the people" want a public option, why aren't those who claim to be the voice of majority of "the people" clamoring for a public option?

PS- There was a "public option" in the House bill.

That's nice, but - does not answer my question.

Your question can't be answered because it is based on a faulty premise. Opinion polls are not FACTS.

Opinion polls are not facts. Agreed. But - the whole debate centers around opinion: do you or do you not support something. The polls, while not perfect, are the best way to measure the level of that support and if they are well constructed, they do a pretty good job. If you have enough different polls - from different sources - saying more or less the same thing - then you have a trend and you can draw an accurate conclusion of that trend. If you are a member of a group proclaiming to be a voice for a majority of the people, that is the only way you can measure what they want in a meaningful way.

That is the premise my question is based on: since the majority of "the people" want a public option, why aren't those who claim to be the voice of majority of "the people" clamoring for a public option?

Most people don't even know what the "public option" means.
FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right: Poll: Most Don't Know What "Public Option" Is -- Including Pollsters

Most - 37% seem to. The next largest group is probably the very group that opposes a public option. Interestingly - the wording on some of the poll questions defined public option carefully so whether they knew or not would not matter.

 

[Coyote]

Get specific and define exactly what a public option really is - and watch voters say "no thanks".

And while you're at it, remind them that they HAVE TO PAY FOR IT too.

Irrelevent. That's not what's being argued.

 

[Zander]

Get specific and define exactly what a public option really is - and watch voters say "no thanks".

And while you're at it, remind them that they HAVE TO PAY FOR IT too.

Irrelevent. That's not what's being argued.

I disagree. The cost is totally relevant. I want lots of things. In fact, I could make a huge list of all the things I want. But when I balance "what I want" against "what I can afford" I have a much shorter list. That is reality. People always want "free" shit, until they realize it ain't "free".

 

[MIPS]

Get specific and define exactly what a public option really is - and watch voters say "no thanks".

And while you're at it, remind them that they HAVE TO PAY FOR IT too.

Irrelevent. That's not what's being argued.

LOL, the truth is irrelevant? what planet are you from? or do you just want to see polls that are engineered to tell you what you want to hear? If that's the case you seem to be on the right track with your Huffington Post links and your MoveOn.org polls......

 

[theDoctorisIn]

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

Actually, Obama is the one who FAILED. I am just a private citizen with an opinion and a keyboard. I didn't have a rubber stamp Congress with a filibuster proof majority and a full year to pass my healthcare reform agenda. If I did, I'd have gotten the job done!! Obama had all that, AND he enjoyed incredible 70%+ popularity and plenty of goodwill!!! What did he get done? Nothing. It is one year later we have NADA ZIP ZILCH to show for it. He is a failure. Direct your anger towards him, he is the problem. A real leader would have taken ownership of the agenda and sold the program. There was nothing stopping him except his own failure to lead. Obama is not a leader, he is a candidate. A professional cheerleader that knows next to nothing about being an executive. You cannot blame the Republicans for the failure of Obama.

I'm not the one getting angry here. What does any of this rant have to do with what we were talking about?

 

[slackjawed]

I don't trust polls usually. I think the ones that say a majority want a public option are wrong because if they were right, I would know at least one person that still wanted it. Even those in my community that were for it a year ago, want nothing to do with it now.
The militia movement has even grown (the commander says doubled) since the election and those guys don't wantthe govt. to do anything, not a thing.
I agree with them on one thing, I don't want more government either.
The fact is though that as long as the democrats and republicans continue on the path they have been on and ignore the will of the people, the greater the chances of getting rid of the pretenders and getting some real leaders.
Keep on doing what your doing is my message to congress, because I want to see all you gone. I want real change, that's the best hope we have.

 

[MaggieMae]

If this debacle called "healthcare reform" were truly the will of the people, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. A guy just ran clearly AGAINST it and won Ted Kennedy's old seat who was clearly FOR it when he was alive.. in a fairly liberal state at that.

Didn't know if you got that memo yet.

The "will of the people" was the polar opposite a year ago. I guess you don't get media coverage in your cave.

 

[MaggieMae]

Lately, the rhetoric has been about "listening to the people" and how a majority of "the people" are being ignored. The self-appointed spokesmen for "the people" appear to be the Tea Party Movement and, as part of a new chapter in rightwing talking points - the GoP.

In poll after poll, a consistently high majority is in favor of some form of public option in health care. Yet , the Republicans (through legislative digging in of heels) and the Tea Partiers (through desruptive and misleading rhetoric) have consistently denied "the people" any chance of this option being realized.


Why is the will of "the people" being ignored? Is it only the will of a special interest minority you listen to?

For a year until last night the Democrats held the WH and had a super majority,fillibuster
proof in Congress....Why didn't you guys pass the bill ?....If this was such a great deal and it was so important why didn't you pass it?...

Quick answer...It's a steaming pile of dog poo and you want to drag the GOP down with you when the American people finally wake up to what they put into the WH.

The tide is turning,keep making fun of tea party people,the GOP and anyone else you feel so superior to. Just a few months ago you guys acted like the GOP would be dead. Then
you lost in Virginia,New Jersey and now the Holy Land of the Democrat Party, Mass. Just look how quickly things have turned around.

Democrats traditionally don't operate the respective chambers like Mafia (Tom DeLay, et al.) willing to break kneecaps to shove something through, that's why.

 

[obama2ndterm]

The voters already have affordable health care why more?

 

[MaggieMae]

No there isn't - I challenge you to prove your assertion. Most people do not want a "public option". There is a small lunatic fringe of far left wackjobs that want a government take over of heatlhcare via the "public option" or single payer program. The overwhelming majority of people prefer a sane and measured approach. Starting with tort reform, portability of benefits, competition across state lines, and insurance reform. We can do this, and we don't need to spend trillions of dollars and create a new entitlement program.

Numerous polls have been posted in this thread that prove you wrong. Every poll taken, with the exception of one Rassmussen poll from last June, shows that. So unless you can prove your assertion, you fail.

Actually, Obama is the one who FAILED. I am just a private citizen with an opinion and a keyboard. I didn't have a rubber stamp Congress with a filibuster proof majority and a full year to pass my healthcare reform agenda. If I did, I'd have gotten the job done!! Obama had all that, AND he enjoyed incredible 70%+ popularity and plenty of goodwill!!! What did he get done? Nothing. It is one year later we have NADA ZIP ZILCH to show for it. He is a failure. Direct your anger towards him, he is the problem. A real leader would have taken ownership of the agenda and sold the program. There was nothing stopping him except his own failure to lead. Obama is not a leader, he is a candidate. A professional cheerleader that knows next to nothing about being an executive. You cannot blame the Republicans for the failure of Obama.

Of course trying to get an affordable health care package passed in the face of a weak economy never crossed your mind as being a difficult challenge, I suppose. These are not ordinary times, my friend.