rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
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I admitted I have used me in a bikini as an avatar...
Amanda in a bikini!!!!!
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I admitted I have used me in a bikini as an avatar...
Excuse me?
Theres no "excuse me" about it. If it takes the military to make someone a better person, Id say that the parenting of that child/person was pretty god damn poor. The military creates Jar heads.
Jamie
"Excuse me" because of my post above yours. Were you directing that toward me?
I admitted I have used me in a bikini as an avatar...
Amanda in a bikini!!!!!
This shows that a teen can be confused when it comes to politics as well. They cannot correctly identify emotions or make decisions that are not emotional based. Adults can. This could impair the teens ability to make a sound choice in the voting which could lead to misunderstandings and get them someone in office that they regret.
Jamie
Theres no "excuse me" about it. If it takes the military to make someone a better person, Id say that the parenting of that child/person was pretty god damn poor. The military creates Jar heads.
Jamie
"Excuse me" because of my post above yours. Were you directing that toward me?
Of course it was directed at you. You, apparently, are a piss poor parent.
Me, I applaud your daughter for serving her country. She has my thanks.
There is nothing in democratic theory that requires that those that govern be rational, must be mature, must be educated, must be knowledgeable, and so forth. That these notions have been incorporated into democratic doctrine is mainly the result of a mistake-a mistake issuing from the all too easy acceptance of the paternalistic model...It is not a precondition of self-government that those who govern be wise, educated, mature, responsible, and so on, but instead these are the results which self-government are designed to produce. Through the process of making decisions, of making and correcting mistakes, of deliberating and reflecting upon the facts and the gamut of opinions concerning the facts, individuals learn to become responsible, learn to make wise and judicious judgments. It is these processes which lead to maturity, lead to an educated citizenry, and lead to the development of responsible persons. Indeed we may say that it is only when children are given the responsibility to act in these ways that they can become mature adults and not simply grow older. As long as they remain wholly subject to parental domination, they will not-in general-achieve maturity.
Raise the age? Don't know about that. Maybe pass a test showing you're competent to vote . . . that I could get on board with. Of course, it would have to be administered to all, not just the youth.
Most teens up until the age of 25 go on emotional response and they have been proven to get the emotion wrong in the first place.
[W]hite matter the connective fiber between the lobes that allows parts of the brain to interact with each other continues to grow until about age 45, according to the study by UNM's Health Sciences Center and New Mexico VA Health Care Systems.
This work seems to support the idea of the teen brain we see in the headlines until we realize two things. First, most of the brain changes that are observed during the teen years lie on a continuum of changes that take place over much of our lives. For example, a 1993 study by Jésus Pujol and his colleagues at the Autonomous University of Barcelona looked at changes in the corpus callosuma massive structure that connects the two sides of the brainover a two-year period with individuals between 11 and 61 years old. They found that although the rate of growth declined as people aged, this structure still grew by about 4 percent each year in people in their 40s (compared with a growth rate of 29 percent in their youngest subjects). Other studies, conducted by researchers such as Elizabeth Sowell of the University of California, Los Angeles, show that gray matter in the brain continues to disappear from childhood well into adulthood. Second, I have not been able to find even a single study that establishes a causal relation between the properties of the brain being examined and the problems we see in teens. By their very nature, imaging studies are correlational, showing simply that activity in the brain is associated with certain behavior or emotion. As we learn in elementary statistics courses, correlation does not even imply causation. In that sense, no imaging study could possibly identify the brain as a causal agent, no matter what areas of the brain were being observed.
1. Adolescents, immature brains and all, are doing far better today than the supposedly cerebrally-developed midlifers complaining about them.
2. Scientists always seem to find biological flaws in the brains of populations that politicians and the public find fearsome or blameworthy for social problems.
3. The preponderance of laboratory research does not find significant differences between adult and teenage cognitive ability.
4. Scientists have not compared teenage and adult risk taking on a level playing field.
...
Conclusion: The supposedly immature brain development that renders teenagers naturally risk-prone mysteriously fails to affect teenagers from more affluent backgrounds, or from Europe or Japan (where youth poverty rates and dangers are low), who routinely display risks lower than adults do. Rather, sciences discovery of the problematic teenage brain is just the latest in a long, disgraceful history of alliances between officials, interest groups, sensational media, and a small number of scientists who serve their needs. The ability of authorities to scapegoat unpopular, powerless groups in society instead of facing difficult social problemsin this case, rising middle-aged drug and crime epidemics and the effects of poverty on youth riskendangers Americans by preventing realistic solutions to serious crises.
This study was a test for developmental differences in competency to make informed treatment decisions. 96 subjects, 24 (12 males and 12 females) at each of 4 age levels (9, 14, 18, and 21), were administered a measure developed to assess competency according to 4 legal standards. The measure included 4 hypothetical treatment dilemmas and a structured interview protocol. Overall, 14-year-olds did not differ from adults. 9-year-olds appeared less competent than adults with respect to their ability to reason about and understand the treatment information provided in the dilemmas. However, they did not differ from older subjects in their expression of reasonable preferences regarding treatment. It is concluded that the findings do not support the denial of the right of self-determination to adolescents in health-care situations on the basis of a presumption of incapacity. Further, children as young as 9 appear able to participate meaningfully in personal health-care decision making.
[E]xisting evidence provides no legal assumption that minors aged 15 years and above cannot provide competent consent.
We examine an underlying presumption that minors are not competent to consent to abortion. Participants (N=75 age 1321, seeking a pregnancy test at a women's medical clinic) completed an interview that was audiotaped and scored on four cognitive and volitional criteria of legal competence. Competence was compared in three age groups (15; 1617; 1821) for participants who considered abortion and for those who did not. Adolescents age 1617 and adolescents 15, who considered abortion, appeared as competent as legal adults; only 15-year-old adolescents who did not consider abortion appeared less competent. Regression analysis was used to identify psychosocial predictors of competence. Results challenge the presumption that minors are not competent. An alternate policy based upon informed consent and empowerment of minors as decision makers is proposed.
[T]he literature in developmental psychology has shown that adolescents are able to make meaningful decisions and advocates for youth have argued that researchers must respect the autonomy rights of children and adolescents.
If you wouldn't let them vote at 18 then they shouldn't be able to join the armed services at 18 either. After all if they don't have the mental maturity to read about, and recognize the consequences of casting a vote then they certainly don't have the maturity to understand the consequences ( up to and including their deaths ) of signing their life over to Uncle Sam either.
I hate to break it to you, but one of the reasons men in their late teens are so valued in the armed forces is BECAUSE they're not entirely mature mentally. Men in late adolescence/early twenties tend toward recklessness, a certain disregard for personal safety, and a curious notion of invincibility, all of which is very useful in a soldier.
That's not necessarily a "mothers" point of view...it's YOUR point of view. I'm a mother myself and if my daughter chooses to join the military I'll support her decision to do so. There are certainly some advantages to it (job training, GI Bill for school etc.) along with the disadvantages. I'll make damned sure she reads everything she has to sign though so that she really knows and understands what she's getting into.
I dont think anyone should join the military until they are age 21 or higher..possibly higher. But then again, I would HATE it if my children joined the military at ALL...thats just a mother's point of view.
Jamie
That's not necessarily a "mothers" point of view...it's YOUR point of view. I'm a mother myself and if my daughter chooses to join the military I'll support her decision to do so. There are certainly some advantages to it (job training, GI Bill for school etc.) along with the disadvantages. I'll make damned sure she reads everything she has to sign though so that she really knows and understands what she's getting into.
if a mother says its a mothers pov that she doesn't want her child in the military, and another mother says the opposite, is one invalidated as being the opinion of a mother?
it is said that recruiters are like golfers, they both go for the green (recruiters earn bonuses for high recruitment, and they will say anything to get recruits!) so having anyone read what they are signing is a good move. might even have a lawyer look it over. if you wouldn't tell her, would your daughter have the capacity to take that step on her own...looking over the documents prior to signing?
Wow, this is probably one of the most offensive threads I've seen in a while, disguised as a logical debating point.
You don't like how a certain group of people vote, so you've decided that their right to vote should be taken away from them?
Next I guess you'll be saying the same thing about black folks, or hispanics.
In fact, it's not too long ago that the same thing that your saying now about young people was said about women.
But here's a directly relevant counterpoint:
It's a known fact that, in general, critical thinking skills and the ability to learn degrade as one grows older, past the age of 50 or so, especially due to senility or alzheimers, but not limited to those cases.
Which means, following the same logic, that if you want to bar young people from voting, you should CERTAINLY then bar old people from voting.
This shows that a teen can be confused when it comes to politics as well. They cannot correctly identify emotions or make decisions that are not emotional based. Adults can. This could impair the teens ability to make a sound choice in the voting which could lead to misunderstandings and get them someone in office that they regret.
Jamie
Not being allowed to vote could get us someone in office we regret as well.
As I said before, a teenager may have different reasons for voting than somebody older but that's not a bad thing. We vote based on our unique situations, and that's the way it's supposed to be. I'm not sure what identifying the emotion of fear has to do with voting. I don't know about anyone else but I don't typically experience fear when I arrive at my polling place.
"Excuse me" because of my post above yours. Were you directing that toward me?
Of course it was directed at you. You, apparently, are a piss poor parent.
Me, I applaud your daughter for serving her country. She has my thanks.
Thank you. She is an amazing, incredibly intelligent young woman and a great mom. But so is her sister, who never enlisted in the military. I must have directed all of my parenting skills toward that daughter, while ignoring her sister altogether.
I'm going to stop before I say anything I'll regret.
Adults live in a world where "reading" adults is important.
Adults live in a world where "reading" adults is important.
And seniors live in a world where they just have trouble reading...
What happened to your maturity since that time?
cant attack the content, so must attack the poster.
ad hominem.
Sorry Vinny..
You just threw up a softball and I had to swing for it
I believe there shouldn't be a minimum voting age at all.