The United States Of SWAT?...

[Spoonman]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

as to the original intent of the 2nd amendment, citizens should be as well armed as the government. it hepls keep them in line

 

[bucs90]

Interesting read on the Militarization of our domestic Police Force.


Military-style units from government agencies are wreaking havoc on non-violent citizens.
By John Fund

Regardless of how people feel about Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s standoff with the federal Bureau of Land Management over his cattle’s grazing rights, a lot of Americans were surprised to see TV images of an armed-to-the-teeth paramilitary wing of the BLM deployed around Bundy’s ranch.

They shouldn’t have been. Dozens of federal agencies now have Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams to further an expanding definition of their missions. It’s not controversial that the Secret Service and the Bureau of Prisons have them. But what about the Department of Agriculture, the Railroad Retirement Board, the Tennessee Valley Authority, the Office of Personnel Management, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service? All of these have their own SWAT units and are part of a worrying trend towards the militarization of federal agencies — not to mention local police forces.

“Law-enforcement agencies across the U.S., at every level of government, have been blurring the line between police officer and soldier,” journalist Radley Balko writes in his 2013 book Rise of the Warrior Cop. “The war on drugs and, more recently, post-9/11 antiterrorism efforts have created a new figure on the U.S. scene: the warrior cop — armed to the teeth, ready to deal harshly with targeted wrongdoers, and a growing threat to familiar American liberties.”

The proliferation of paramilitary federal SWAT teams inevitably brings abuses that have nothing to do with either drugs or terrorism. Many of the raids they conduct are against harmless, often innocent, Americans who typically are accused of non-violent civil or administrative violations.

Take the case of Kenneth Wright of Stockton, Calif., who was “visited” by a SWAT team from the U.S. Department of Education in June 2011. Agents battered down the door of his home at 6 a.m., dragged him outside in his boxer shorts, and handcuffed him as they put his three children (ages 3, 7, and 11) in a police car for two hours while they searched his home. The raid was allegedly intended to uncover information on Wright’s estranged wife, Michelle, who hadn’t been living with him and was suspected of college financial-aid fraud...

Read More:
The United States of SWAT? | National Review Online
DRUDGE REPORT 2014®

At first glance of the title, I assumed I'd disagree with your thread.

But, I read it, and agree. There is NO need for a SWAT team at many of the government bodies that are creating them.

There is an absolute need for SWAT teams at certain levels of policing. County sheriff's departments, especially urban ones, need one. Cities that are metro areas of 500K or more need one. Smaller jurisdictions can, and often to, sign mutual aid agreements so that if the day ever comes where they have an incident requiring a SWAT team, that the nearest team can come to their aid.

Hostage situations, barricaded violent criminals with guns, high risk drug warrants, etc, etc. All need a SWAT team response.

But I agree. The Dept of Agriculture does NOT need one. If they one day did, then whatever jurisdiction they go to would have a county sheriff or city police that could assist.

80% of SWAT teams are very professional and capable, full of men who are physically fit, calm under pressure, and good at weapons and tactics.

But sometimes I get disgusted when I see something like a tiny college campus police dept with a SWAT team that has some clown who is 5'5 350 lbs wearing tactical gear.

 

[Synthaholic]

so this is the talking point for sunday....neato!

Well it is a Message Board, no? Why do you come here if you don't want to read about what others think? Why are you here? Think about it for a bit.

ummm.....Steph already started a thread about this fauxrage.

I don't think there is anything faux about it. Cops these days are pussies, and compensate for that by arming themselves to the teeth and using force as a first resort rather than last.

 

[bucs90]

Pretty sad many on this thread chose not to read the article. They immediately jumped right into their predictable partisan defense-mode. The article wasn't about Republican vs. Democrat. The Militarization of our domestic Police Force is a very disturbing trend. And both Political Parties are all-in on it at this point.

I read it, and I can see valid points on both sides of the issue.

Some war mongers may not believe it, but humans don't like soldiers and tank like vehicles rolling through their neighborhood. Its why so many places don't want the US military occupying their cities. But, we project that military onto so many people- and our intent is GOOD, just like the police core intent is good- but people don't like it.

So, it is a valid discussion. We have become a nation and culture that celebrates warfare. Look at our video games, our movies, how much support and celebratory reaction people give to the military (which I agree with to a point). Paintball and airsoft wars are a huge growing hobby for kids who have grown up during our 12 years of war. Are we then shocked that the warfare mentality trickles into our society in places we don't want it?

When a culture celebrates and glorifies warfare...is it any shock that its people all kinda want a piece of it....in one form or another?

 

[bucs90]

Well it is a Message Board, no? Why do you come here if you don't want to read about what others think? Why are you here? Think about it for a bit.

ummm.....Steph already started a thread about this fauxrage.

I don't think there is anything faux about it. Cops these days are pussies, and compensate for that by arming themselves to the teeth and using force as a first resort rather than last.

So when they are responding to take on TERRORISTS who blew up two bombs and shot and killed a fellow cop already.........they shouldn't respond with their own armor and guns?

When you put on a vest and pick up a gun, and run into some of the shit American cops go into, then you can talk shit.

Until then, you are the only "pussy" around sitting on the couch watching others do life's dirty work.

 

[bucs90]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

Great post. Cops and their families have gotten tired of seeing cops get murdered on duty. So, they looked to the folks who are the best in the world about facing down violence and coming home in one piece.

 

[bucs90]

This is a very fair article folks. Give it a read. It doesn't bash cops. I states there is a legitimate need for SWAT teams, just not so many, and not for petty incidents.

And I agree. SWAT is a very well armed, well trained unit. And the more and more of them you get, the more watered down the talent level and training becomes, until you have some teams that are just regular young cops who threw on some tac gear.

SWAT should be reserved for only the most serious incidents, which DO occur in America, in every state, and in every city.

But, just like some of the peaceful people of foreign countries, no one wants a military roaming their streets kicking their doors.

Keep SWAT elite, and keep it an uncommon and sparingly used tool.

 

[Dot Com]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

as to the original intent of the 2nd amendment, citizens should be as well armed as the government. it hepls keep them in line

so what type of water cannon & tear gas do you have on-hand?

 

[Dot Com]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

Great post. Cops and their families have gotten tired of seeing cops get murdered on duty. So, they looked to the folks who are the best in the world about facing down violence and coming home in one piece.

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

 

[Spoonman]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

as to the original intent of the 2nd amendment, citizens should be as well armed as the government. it hepls keep them in line

so what type of water cannon & tear gas do you have on-hand?

i do have some tear gas now that you mention it

 

[bucs90]

if the clingers like m15shooter, 2ndamendment, & others weren't buying all the military-style, fire sticks, maybe SWAT wouldn't need to get all that over-the-top equipment. That ever occur to you OP? BTW- I served Wonder how many of the overt clingers on this board served?

Great post. Cops and their families have gotten tired of seeing cops get murdered on duty. So, they looked to the folks who are the best in the world about facing down violence and coming home in one piece.

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

 

[bucs90]

as to the original intent of the 2nd amendment, citizens should be as well armed as the government. it hepls keep them in line

so what type of water cannon & tear gas do you have on-hand?

i do have some tear gas now that you mention it

Translation: He has some pepper spray on a key chain he bought from Wal-Mart's sporting goods section.

 

[Dot Com]

Great post. Cops and their families have gotten tired of seeing cops get murdered on duty. So, they looked to the folks who are the best in the world about facing down violence and coming home in one piece.

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

exactly & one of the main reasons is the gun lobby that is being financed by the manufacturers themselves. They have ads like "upgrade now!" or "two is better than one" when this great nation (Bible Spice- speak ) is already flooded w/ millions of guns.

 

[Spoonman]

Great post. Cops and their families have gotten tired of seeing cops get murdered on duty. So, they looked to the folks who are the best in the world about facing down violence and coming home in one piece.

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

and yet even with your attempted exploitation of the deaths of school children you still couldn't pass a law you claimed 85% of the population favored. the tide has turned in the favor of gun owners because the the constant push to infringe on our rights has galvanized us. We are taking back our given rights.

 

[Spoonman]

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

exactly & one of the main reasons is the gun lobby that is being financed by the manufacturers themselves. They have ads like "upgrade now!" or "two is better than one" when this great nation (Bible Spice- speak ) is already flooded w/ millions of guns.

and membership is growing. the lobby is stronger than ever. 66,000,000 new guns sold since obama started his anti gun crusade. americans will not give up guns. americans will not tolerate the liberal attack on their rights

 

[Dot Com]

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

exactly & one of the main reasons is the gun lobby that is being financed by the manufacturers themselves. They have ads like "upgrade now!" or "two is better than one" when this great nation (Bible Spice- speak ) is already flooded w/ millions of guns.

and membership is growing. the lobby is stronger than ever. 66,000,000 new guns sold since obama started his anti gun crusade. americans will not give up guns. americans will not tolerate the liberal attack on their rights

because you types thrive on hate & fear. Sheeple. When I lived in Japan, guns were frowned upon because it meant you couldn't fight hand-to-hand (you were weak). It still means that but certain MURICANs (clingers) think it makes them look tough.

 

[Synthaholic]

ummm.....Steph already started a thread about this fauxrage.

I don't think there is anything faux about it. Cops these days are pussies, and compensate for that by arming themselves to the teeth and using force as a first resort rather than last.

So when they are responding to take on TERRORISTS who blew up two bombs and shot and killed a fellow cop already.........they shouldn't respond with their own armor and guns?

When you put on a vest and pick up a gun, and run into some of the shit American cops go into, then you can talk shit.

Until then, you are the only "pussy" around sitting on the couch watching others do life's dirty work.

The point is that most people were shocked to see that Boston had this militarized police force - the point of this thread.

But there is no doubt that nowadays cops will mace you, taze you, or brutally take you down as a first resort, because they are fearful instead of being trained to be capable.

 

[bucs90]

I think the "tide turned" when those guys in LA robbed a bank w/ auto, mil-spec weaponry. Law enforcement didn't start it but they'll finish it.

That was one of them. The biggest ones were much earlier. The Univ of Texas sniper incident from the clock tower was one. The campus cops and Austin PD didn't have an answer for it immediately available, and he killed lots of people. A similar incident today would have options: They would immediately have counter-snipers on scene, they'd have gas launchers that could launch gas to the top of the tower, AND they'd have an armored vehicle that could approach the tower to deploy the gas, as well as put manpower on the stairs without taking fire since they could ride in the armored car.

The problem is.....no one knows WHERE the SWAT type incidents will occur, so everyone wants a SWAT team nearby now.

The other were the LA riots. LAPD was just overrun.

Many times patrol cops face a situation they aren't equipped for, or they are just outgunned, or the person inside has barricades set up. Or, this is tragic but true, sometimes the bad guy is an ex-military type with a lot of training that is beyond that of patrol cops.

This is a touchy subject that has valid points on both sides.

But it comes down sometimes to this: Serving a drug warrant, and the guy inside has an AK47 and a bad rap sheet. If YOUR daughter or son were a cop, would you want them knocking on that door armed with a 9mm pistol? Or a SWAT team with shields and armor calling him out on a loud speaker with marksmen on overwatch?

exactly & one of the main reasons is the gun lobby that is being financed by the manufacturers themselves. They have ads like "upgrade now!" or "two is better than one" when this great nation (Bible Spice- speak ) is already flooded w/ millions of guns.

Well, I agree we certainly live in a society that glorifies warfare. And the free market allows the gun manufacturers to take full advantage of that.

But, that said, if I were going into any volatile situation where I may need a gun anywhere farther away than 15 yards, I'd want an M4/AR15 over a pistol or shotgun. ITs so much more accurate, and therefore safer for me, and any innocent person that a stray bullet could harm.

 

[bucs90]

I don't think there is anything faux about it. Cops these days are pussies, and compensate for that by arming themselves to the teeth and using force as a first resort rather than last.

So when they are responding to take on TERRORISTS who blew up two bombs and shot and killed a fellow cop already.........they shouldn't respond with their own armor and guns?

When you put on a vest and pick up a gun, and run into some of the shit American cops go into, then you can talk shit.

Until then, you are the only "pussy" around sitting on the couch watching others do life's dirty work.

The point is that most people were shocked to see that Boston had this militarized police force - the point of this thread.

But there is no doubt that nowadays cops will mace you, taze you, or brutally take you down as a first resort, because they are fearful instead of being trained to be capable.

Sounds like Boston should be APPLAUDED

They have a very well trained, well armed SWAT unit obviously. BUT, people were surprised to see it when it was tracking down those murderous terrorists.

Which means....Boston has a team like that ready; And they use it very sparingly and ONLY for the most serious situations. Which is exactly what SWAT should be. Well armed, well trained; And rarely deployed, only for scenarios where it is truly necessary.

 

[Dot Com]

here clingers:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMu5IEZZZaE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMu5IEZZZaE[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1agr5ik81I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1agr5ik81I[/ame]