The truth about Truman’s bombing Japan

[gipper]

LOL. FDR and Truman were criminals.

Only from the perspective of enemies of the USA

Bad decisions are the enemy of America

Nukking kids and women is nearly as bad as abortion destroying nations

Losing wars is good? Losing American's lives is good? It is sad that the Japs lost a war they started. It is also sad that nobody was more brutal than the japanese in that war that they started.

Americans know that Imperial Japan was extremely brutal to those they captured and conquered. Yet some of these Americans somehow don’t consider the mass murder of defenseless civilian Japanese by the air forces of the USA, extremely brutal.

The hypocrisy is enormous.

 

[elektra]

Americans know that Imperial Japan was extremely brutal to those they captured and conquered. Yet some of these Americans somehow don’t consider the mass murder of defenseless civilian Japanese by the air forces of the USA, extremely brutal.

The hypocrisy is enormous.

What is enormous, is your ignorance. Defenseless woman and children? They had the entire Japanese Military protecting them. Ignorance or stupidity, it has to be stupidity if during a discussion of war one does not realize who the military protects.

And, just so you know you are wrong, how about telling us the which air force unit dropped the bomb. I will give you a hint, it was the army!

 

[elektra]

It's already proven. Your low logic is simply blind to know what proof and facts are

That simply shows you can not support your opinion. Feelings you can argue, which is what you are doing. But facts, you have not provided facts, I am here pointing that out.

 

[gipper]

Americans know that Imperial Japan was extremely brutal to those they captured and conquered. Yet some of these Americans somehow don’t consider the mass murder of defenseless civilian Japanese by the air forces of the USA, extremely brutal.

The hypocrisy is enormous.

What is enormous, is your ignorance. Defenseless woman and children? They had the entire Japanese Military protecting them. Ignorance or stupidity, it has to be stupidity if during a discussion of war one does not realize who the military protects.

And, just so you know you are wrong, how about telling us the which air force unit dropped the bomb. I will give you a hint, it was the army!

Yes Americans love total war, but not on them.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

It's already proven. Your low logic is simply blind to know what proof and facts are

That simply shows you can not support your opinion. Feelings you can argue, which is what you are doing. But facts, you have not provided facts, I am here pointing that out.

Wrong

Ike s speach is facts

Your low logic cannot see it as fact

You cannot see einsteins cause and effect shows proof and fact when he predicts correctly

You just cannot understand what is s fact

You would say when looking across the field to a tree fact is nothing in front of the tree

But facts show many things in front of the tree

Ike could not make that talk without being in disagreement That's a fact

Since he was military he didn't broadcast his disagreement

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Ike's warning of the military industrial complex was proof he disagreed with the military complex nuke bomb dropped when did not have to

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Ike went on national television to warn us about the military complex

He knew how wrong dropping the bomb that strong warning proves he was against dropping that bomb

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Military man IKE goes after the deep states greed here

How insane greed makes harmful decisions Like the rush to make Japan surrender before Russia and China could attack to not allow China or Russia to get part of Japan

China lost over 20 million to Japan

Fairness would say they needed to control
Jspan just as much as America who lost only half a million

So the insane greed came to nuke kids to end the war before China and Russia could come in on the other side

Here is Ike's warning about this insane greed

//////

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Let's just trace this outrageous harmful decision by Thurman

By keeping the nuke invention hid

America would not have fought a standstill war in Korea or Vietnam


Castro would not have gotten more support to take over Cuba by not seeing how America nukked women and babies

The bay of pigs was lost by John Kennedy because of soviets copying and getting nukes

They even had a lot more nukes ready to fire on America from Cuba if we invaded

Kennedy thought Cuba and Russia was bluffing but did back down when they saw some nukes there

20 yrs later. Kennedys sec of defense went to Cuba for a fact fining tour

He found out Cuba had much more nukes ready to fire at America than they thought

So America was stopped from beating Cuba because of their nuke drop on Japan. Because Russia also got the nukes

All that shows how harmful the dropping of the bomb was

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Let's just trace this outrageous harmful decision by Thurman

By keeping the nuke invention hid

America would not have fought a standstill war in Korea or Vietnam


Castro would not have gotten more support to take over Cuba by not seeing how America nukked women and babies

The bay of pigs was lost by John Kennedy because of soviets copying and getting nukes

They even had a lot more nukes ready to fire on America from Cuba if we invaded

Kennedy thought Cuba and Russia was bluffing but did back down when they saw some nukes there

20 yrs later. Kennedys sec of defense went to Cuba for a fact fining tour

He found out Cuba had much more nukes ready to fire at America than they thought

So America was stopped from beating Cuba because of their nuke drop on Japan. Because Russia also got the nukes

All that shows how harmful the dropping of the bomb was

The Soviets got the bomb because of spies from our program dropping the bomb had nothing to do with you dumb ass. Cuba was stopped from having the bomb by Kennedy that was the whole point of almost going to war with the Soviets, god you guys don't know history at all.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Patriotism is not blindly defending immoral actions performed by the government. Patriotism is not arguing that anyone who disagrees with the nuking of Japan is somehow dishonoring the American military personnel who served in the Pacific War, as if those personnel were the ones who decided to drop napalm on dozens of Japanese cities and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just exactly how many Japanese women and children had to be fire-bombed and nuked to make up for the 2,335 people killed and the 1,143 people wounded in the Pearl Harbor attack? 100,000? 200,000? 400,000? About 220,000 people were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, most of whom were women and children. At the very least, another 150,000 people--mostly women and children--were killed in the 66 cities that we fire-bombed with napalm before we used nukes.

One of the most comprehensive, thorough rebuttals to the Truman-Stimson-Byrnes defense of FDR and Truman's conduct of the war, Truman's use of nukes, and the prosecution of 28 Japanese government and military leaders in the Tokyo war crimes trial is Dr. Keiichiro Kobori's 1995 book The Tokyo Trials: The Unheard Defense, which is available for free reading and/or download at the website of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact:

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/66_S4.pdf

 

[Markle]

Red Herring logical fallacy. This is about Japan

False Equivalency logical fallacy. Europe and the Pacific were entirely different situation

A question for you: Would the US have used the bomb on Germany if we had it sooner, instead of invading ? Why or why not?

You bailed on answering my question, likewise!

Other than the extermination of the Jews, which the allies did not believe at the time, what was Germany doing that Japan was not?

 

[Markle]

Americans need to come to the realization that the bombings of civilians was really mass murder, not unlike what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were guilty of.

Great column on the subject.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan, Reconsidered
By Alan Mosley
Mises.org

January 2, 2019

Russia’s move, in fact, compelled the Japanese to consider unconditional surrender; until then, they were only open to a conditional surrender that left their Emperor Hirohito some dignity and protections from war-crimes trials. Ward concludes that, as in the European theatre, Truman didn’t beat Japan; Stalin did.

Harry Truman never expressed regret publicly over his decision to use the atomic bombs. However, he did order an independent study on the state of the war effort leading up to August of 1945, and the strategic value of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. In 1946, the U.S. Bombing Survey published its findings, which concluded as follows: “Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.” This is an intensive condemnation of Truman’s decision, seeing as Russia did enter the war, and that plans for an invasion had been developed.

As Timothy P. Carney writes for the Washington Examiner, the fog of war can be a tricky thing. But if we’re forced to side with Truman, or Eisenhower and the other dissenting military leaders, the Eisenhower position isn’t merely valid; it actually aligns better with some fundamental American values. Given all the uncertainty, both at the time and with modern historical revisionism, it’s better to look to principle rather than fortune-telling. One principle that should be near the top of everyone’s list is this: it’s wrong to target civilians with weapons of mass destruction. The deliberate killing of innocent men, women, and children by the hundreds of thousands cannot be justified under any circumstances, much less the ambiguous ones Truman encountered. Whether his decision was motivated by indignation toward Japanese “ pigheadedness” or concern for his troops, Truman’s use of such devastating weapons against non-combatants should not be excused. Americans must strive for complete and honest analysis of the past (and present) conflicts. And if she is to remain true to her own ideals, America must strive for more noble and moral ends—in all conflicts, domestic and foreign—guided by our most cherished first principles, such as the Golden Rule. At the very least, Americans should not try so hard to justify mass murder.

The Atomic Bombing of Japan - LewRockwell LewRockwell.com

Compares with Nazi Germany? Really?

Yes. Mass murder is mass murder whether in a gas chamber or by fire bombing and a-bombing cities full of women and children.

I can't defend a horrible act of war, no one should especially with hindsight.

I'd still say there is quite a difference between a tough call on a bombing you know will kill people while wanting to reduce the death toll of your own while in a war, and a systemic plan of ethnic cleansing/genocide. One evil is far worse than the other imho.

The leaders of the United States wanted to end the war without more casualties on their side. The leaders of Nazi Germany started a war with intent of eliminating classes and races of people by the tens of millions.

If you can't see the difference I don't know what to tell you.

That is logical, but wrong in this instance. Japan sought surrender terms well before Truman committed his criminal act. Logic would dictate that you accept their surrender, ending the slaughter and destruction. Sadly, logic was not implemented.

What? "surrender terms" does not equal surrender. They didn't surrender even after the first bomb was dropped!

But, they did after the second. Undoubtedly they believed that the next two or three would be dropped on Tokyo. They had to believe that the first two were warning shots.

 

[GreenAndBlue]

What other harm to America did the dropping of nukes do to America

Castro 90 miles off Florida was free to poison many other nations

Venezuela was one

If Russia did not also rush to invent the nuke bomb we would have had Cuba as a us state

America letting the world know it can be done now has several nations that can blackmail America

Outrageous harmful decision to drop the nuke bombs on kids and women

Those pics has gone all over the world to bring hate on America

 

[GreenAndBlue]

Let's just trace this outrageous harmful decision by Thurman

By keeping the nuke invention hid

America would not have fought a standstill war in Korea or Vietnam


Castro would not have gotten more support to take over Cuba by not seeing how America nukked women and babies

The bay of pigs was lost by John Kennedy because of soviets copying and getting nukes

They even had a lot more nukes ready to fire on America from Cuba if we invaded

Kennedy thought Cuba and Russia was bluffing but did back down when they saw some nukes there

20 yrs later. Kennedys sec of defense went to Cuba for a fact fining tour

He found out Cuba had much more nukes ready to fire at America than they thought

So America was stopped from beating Cuba because of their nuke drop on Japan. Because Russia also got the nukes

All that shows how harmful the dropping of the bomb was

The Soviets got the bomb because of spies from our program dropping the bomb had nothing to do with you dumb ass. Cuba was stopped from having the bomb by Kennedy that was the whole point of almost going to war with the Soviets, god you guys don't know history at all.

Wrong dropping the bomb had everything to do with it

That brought the anger and panic to spy like crazy and build them too

We have lost Cuba because of that act of trumans as well as leaving viet nam and Korea without winning

Russia became equal to us when they got the nukes

And that stopped us in many ways

 

[gipper]

LOL. FDR and Truman were criminals.

Only from the perspective of enemies of the USA

Yes these enemies are statist Americans.

 

[gipper]

Patriotism is not blindly defending immoral actions performed by the government. Patriotism is not arguing that anyone who disagrees with the nuking of Japan is somehow dishonoring the American military personnel who served in the Pacific War, as if those personnel were the ones who decided to drop napalm on dozens of Japanese cities and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just exactly how many Japanese women and children had to be fire-bombed and nuked to make up for the 2,335 people killed and the 1,143 people wounded in the Pearl Harbor attack? 100,000? 200,000? 400,000? About 220,000 people were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, most of whom were women and children. At the very least, another 150,000 people--mostly women and children--were killed in the 66 cities that we fire-bombed with napalm before we used nukes.

One of the most comprehensive, thorough rebuttals to the Truman-Stimson-Byrnes defense of FDR and Truman's conduct of the war, Truman's use of nukes, and the prosecution of 28 Japanese government and military leaders in the Tokyo war crimes trial is Dr. Keiichiro Kobori's 1995 book The Tokyo Trials: The Unheard Defense, which is available for free reading and/or download at the website of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact:

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/66_S4.pdf

As this thread proves, logic is not a trait statists possess.

 

[Camp]

Patriotism is not blindly defending immoral actions performed by the government. Patriotism is not arguing that anyone who disagrees with the nuking of Japan is somehow dishonoring the American military personnel who served in the Pacific War, as if those personnel were the ones who decided to drop napalm on dozens of Japanese cities and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just exactly how many Japanese women and children had to be fire-bombed and nuked to make up for the 2,335 people killed and the 1,143 people wounded in the Pearl Harbor attack? 100,000? 200,000? 400,000? About 220,000 people were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, most of whom were women and children. At the very least, another 150,000 people--mostly women and children--were killed in the 66 cities that we fire-bombed with napalm before we used nukes.

One of the most comprehensive, thorough rebuttals to the Truman-Stimson-Byrnes defense of FDR and Truman's conduct of the war, Truman's use of nukes, and the prosecution of 28 Japanese government and military leaders in the Tokyo war crimes trial is Dr. Keiichiro Kobori's 1995 book The Tokyo Trials: The Unheard Defense, which is available for free reading and/or download at the website of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact:

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/66_S4.pdf

As this thread proves, logic is not a trait statists possess.

What is your definition of statist?

 

[mikegriffith1]

And then there's Unit 731, the Japanese army "medical" facility where cruel medical experiments were carried out on Chinese, Koreans, and a few American POWs.

I would make two points about Unit 731:

1. The experiments done at Unit 731 were immoral and cruel, and every "researcher" who conducted them should have been shot or hung, along with the army officers who ordered the experiments. But, do you know why most of the researchers were not tried for war crimes? Because our government granted them immunity in exchange for the information they had gathered. In fact, the only researchers who were prosecuted were the ones who were caught by the Soviets.

2. Sadly, because of our own immoral and cruel medical experiments, our government had little moral authority to be judging the people involved with Unit 731. As has been known and well documented for at least 25 years now, during WW II and afterward, our government conducted illegal, immoral, and inhumane medical experiments, especially involving radiation, without the subjects knowledge or consent. The federal government ended up having to pay big chunks of money to settle lawsuits that resulted from these experiments once they became known.

For example, scientists connected with the Manhattan Project injected unwitting patients with radioactive material in order to study the effects. One of those subjects was the mother of a U.S. Army soldier serving in Europe. When her son found out about the experiment, he said, "I was over there fighting the Germans, who were conducting these horrific medical experiments, at the same time my own country was conducting them on my mother" (Gerald DeGroot, The Bomb: A Life, New York: Random House, 2011, p. 276).

At prisons in Oregon and Washington, our military arranged for inmates to have their testicles exposed to x-rays in order to determine how much radiation would cause sterility (DeGroot, p. 276). In some cases, we marched American soldiers through nuclear test sites soon after a nuke had been exploded there. In order to study the effects of syphilis, our military studied black soldiers at Tuskegee who had syphilis without telling them that we could cure the syphilis with penicillin--we let the syphilis progress without curing it.

If you want to read about our immoral radiation-related medical experiments, read Pulitzer-Prize-winning author Eileen Welsome's book The Plutonium Files: America's Secret Medical Experiments in the Cold War. Welsome starts with medical experiments done during WW II and then proceeds from there.

If you want some online reading on our secret medical experiments during the war and afterward, here are some:

United States Human Radiation Experiments

https://www.amazon.com/Plutonium-Fil.../dp/0385319541

(interview with Eileen Welsome)

http://www.imarcresearch.com/blog/bi...on-Experiments

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethi...#United_States

https://www.revealnews.org/article/u...r-recognition/



"I'm Not Afraid of the A-Bomb": An Army Captain Tries to Dispel Fears about Radioactivity

Nearly all Americans were appalled when they found out about these immoral medical experiments. They had no idea they were being done. Similarly, nearly all Japanese citizens were shocked when they learned about the horrible medical experiments done at Unit 731. They had no idea they were being done, nor did the top leaders in the Japanese government know about these experiments until after the war--some senior officers in the Japanese army knew about them, but no one in the cabinet or in the imperial court was aware of them until after the war.

And if we want to talk about the treatment of prisoners, I suggest a good starting point would be John Dower's award-winning book War Without Mercy: Race and Power in the Pacific War.

 

[gipper]

Patriotism is not blindly defending immoral actions performed by the government. Patriotism is not arguing that anyone who disagrees with the nuking of Japan is somehow dishonoring the American military personnel who served in the Pacific War, as if those personnel were the ones who decided to drop napalm on dozens of Japanese cities and nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just exactly how many Japanese women and children had to be fire-bombed and nuked to make up for the 2,335 people killed and the 1,143 people wounded in the Pearl Harbor attack? 100,000? 200,000? 400,000? About 220,000 people were killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, most of whom were women and children. At the very least, another 150,000 people--mostly women and children--were killed in the 66 cities that we fire-bombed with napalm before we used nukes.

One of the most comprehensive, thorough rebuttals to the Truman-Stimson-Byrnes defense of FDR and Truman's conduct of the war, Truman's use of nukes, and the prosecution of 28 Japanese government and military leaders in the Tokyo war crimes trial is Dr. Keiichiro Kobori's 1995 book The Tokyo Trials: The Unheard Defense, which is available for free reading and/or download at the website of the Society for the Dissemination of Historical Fact:

http://www.sdh-fact.com/CL02_1/66_S4.pdf

As this thread proves, logic is not a trait statists possess.

What is your definition of statist?

You